Why Heart?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

No need to be pedantic about this. It's obvious the heart is not meant in the literal sense.

[Mr Walker]

On 03/06/2019 at 3:40 AM, Mr Guitar said:

We've all heard a phrase like "Evil (or goodness, as the case may be) is in the hearts and minds of man". I agree that those things do exist in the mind of man/woman but why bring the heart into it? It has no cognitive capability and only exists to  push fluids here and there around the bodily factory. Whoever decided the heart was at the root of anything? Maybe it's just me as I tend to be very unemotional and distrustful of those who are. My heart can't love or hate - it can only pump (which is a good thing).

This may have been answered, but apart from historical misunderstanding of the origin of thought, there is a simple answer to this.

Humans think with logic and with emotions.  The heart represents emotional cognition, while the head represents logical thinking.

We all have to find a balance between these two (and other) forms of thinking.

Psychiatrists and advertisers will tell you that the heart, or emotional, form of thinking is much more powerful, as a driver of human behaviours, than logic. 

[Mr Guitar]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:28 AM, Mr Walker said:

This may have been answered, but apart from historical misunderstanding of the origin of thought, there is a simple answer to this.

Humans think with logic and with emotions.  The heart represents emotional cognition, while the head represents logical thinking.

We all have to find a balance between these two (and other) forms of thinking.

Psychiatrists and advertisers will tell you that the heart, or emotional, form of thinking is much more powerful, as a driver of human behaviours, than logic. 

Unfortunately, probably true and it opens a lot of folks up to disappointment, I think. I've always tried to leave emotion out of making decisions and I'm almost impossible to 'sell' anything to. I've been told that I'm cold and unfeeling and I guess that's true.

[Mr Walker]

4 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

Unfortunately, probably true and it opens a lot of folks up to disappointment, I think. I've always tried to leave emotion out of making decisions and I'm almost impossible to 'sell' anything to. I've been told that I'm cold and unfeeling and I guess that's true.

As many old movies attest, human emotions open us to both disappointment and hope, love and hate, etc 

Generally humans are more than compensated for the disappointment and disillusionment emotions can bring, by the joy and wonder they can also promote. 

Maybe you are cold and unfeeling.  That is not inherently a bad thing, if it helps you survive and be happy. However it might be that while you CAN respond emotionally you have learned that, for you, it is more productive to respond without emotion and using logic  (this was the classic difference written into the characters of Spock and Kirk in the original star trek series

We can act,  based upon logical value and ethical standards, to produce the same results as acting from love or hate.  

[Mr Guitar]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

As many old movies attest, human emotions open us to both disappointment and hope, love and hate, etc 

Generally humans are more than compensated for the disappointment and disillusionment emotions can bring, by the joy and wonder they can also promote. 

Maybe you are cold and unfeeling.  That is not inherently a bad thing, if it helps you survive and be happy. However it might be that while you CAN respond emotionally you have learned that, for you, it is more productive to respond without emotion and using logic  (this was the classic difference written into the characters of Spock and Kirk in the original star trek series

We can act,  based upon logical value and ethical standards, to produce the same results as acting from love or hate.  

Yes, I'd say I'm much more 'Spock-like'. Very well put.

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

Yes, I'd say I'm much more 'Spock-like'. Very well put.

Unless you have bran damage from stroke or dementia or you have Alexithyimia it is highly unlikely you don’t have emotions. LOL.

Alexithymia is a personality construct characterized by the subclinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.^[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.^[2] Furthermore, people with alexithymia have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.^[2] Alexithymia occurs in approximately 10% of the population and can occur with a number of psychiatric conditions.^[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Unless you have bran damage from stroke or dementia or you have Alexithyimia it is highly unlikely you don’t have emotions. LOL.

Alexithymia is a personality construct characterized by the subclinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.^[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.^[2] Furthermore, people with alexithymia have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.^[2] Alexithymia occurs in approximately 10% of the population and can occur with a number of psychiatric conditions.^[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

Their emotions are under developed, atrophied or non existent. It's not that they don't have emotional responses. They lack understanding and self-awareness, emotionally. If emotion was language, it would be as though they could only communicate with gestures and grunts. They lack the emotional vocabulary--to continue the analogy--to communicate emotionally, even with themselves.

[Mr Guitar]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Unless you have bran damage from stroke or dementia or you have Alexithyimia it is highly unlikely you don’t have emotions. LOL.

Alexithymia is a personality construct characterized by the subclinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.^[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.^[2] Furthermore, people with alexithymia have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.^[2] Alexithymia occurs in approximately 10% of the population and can occur with a number of psychiatric conditions.^[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

Sounds about right - it's a result of PTSD from a long ago war in SE Asia that I was an unwilling part of. The things that you see and do in those situations tend to fry whatever emotions you might have had (at least in my case). I have a standing monthly appointment with my therapist and have for years - doesn't really help much but it gives me a place to vent. The monthly VA disability payment is scant repayment for what the mental anguish and Agent Orange has done to me over the past  50 years. Alexithymia, huh? I'll have to tell my psydoc what's wrong with me next time I see him. Doesn't really matter what you call it, though - it is what it is.

[+Sherapy]

59 minutes ago, Mr Guitar said:

Sounds about right - it's a result of PTSD from a long ago war in SE Asia that I was an unwilling part of. The things that you see and do in those situations tend to fry whatever emotions you might have had (at least in my case). I have a standing monthly appointment with my therapist and have for years - doesn't really help much but it gives me a place to vent. The monthly VA disability payment is scant repayment for what the mental anguish and Agent Orange has done to me over the past  50 years. Alexithymia, huh? I'll have to tell my psydoc what's wrong with me next time I see him. Doesn't really matter what you call it, though - it is what it is.

Mr Guitar, I meant no disrespect to you. It deeply saddens me that you have suffered the way you have, I know PSTD can do a number on a person. It is good you are in therapy, all the best to you. 

[+Pettytalk]

On 6/3/2019 at 7:09 AM, Mr Guitar said:

But, what if one does not believe in adam, eve, god, jesus or any of those other human constructs? Who invented  that "seed of evil" theory - why 'man', of course. Just another example of the attempt by the priest class to justify it's existence and keep the people terrified of the unknown......oh, "but it'll be better if you keep the coffers filled and pass that offering plate at every service, and we can use the $$$ to buy a new airplane which we need to spread the 'word' to those who have no interest in hearing it". Remarkable how gullible some can be and some of these fear merchants even start putting themselves in the place of 'that which is being worshipped' and their subjects raise them to exalted heights with bigger buildings, nicer houses, newer cars, etc.  I've always believed if a person has a calling to preach the 'gospel' (of whatever belief), he/she should do it on their own time and go out and get a real job, not rely on others to support them - but that's pretty much the way it's always been. 

Yes! we now note your pretense for the heart. You were using it as a springboard only to express your evil hate, and not the good of love. And so comes the bashing of a religion, Apparently for you it's the feet and the fists that are the seat of good and evil.

Play us another tune, Mr. Guitar.
 

 

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Unless you have bran damage from stroke or dementia or you have Alexithyimia it is highly unlikely you don’t have emotions. LOL.

Alexithymia is a personality construct characterized by the subclinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.^[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.^[2] Furthermore, people with alexithymia have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.^[2] Alexithymia occurs in approximately 10% of the population and can occur with a number of psychiatric conditions.^[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

In humans there is a wide range of emotional sensitivity and response.

Basically we learn our responses as being appropriate, from  our culture, but even within one culture, emotional responses can vary in degree. 

Some people accept death and loss, without deep feelings. Others tear their clothes and rend their own bodies, in response to grief. 

Human emotional responses are not simply biological, but intellectual constructs of the mind.  Thus we can shape, structure, and express  them, in ways we choose as most beneficial and appropriate.

Some people fear over expression of emotions (sometimes  because it involves loss of control )  Others require it for catharsis.

   

[Mr Guitar]

7 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Yes! we now note your pretense for the heart. You were using it as a springboard only to express your evil hate, and not the good of love. And so comes the bashing of a religion, Apparently for you it's the feet and the fists that are the seat of good and evil.

Play us another tune, Mr. Guitar.
 

 

1.) Don't 'hate' much of anybody - dislike quite a few, however.

2.) Wasn't bashing 'a religion' - I have the same low opinion of all of them, especially the money grubbing organized ones. 

3.) Not sure what you mean by the 'feet and fists' statement - not sure whether it's an insult or not, so will not comment.

[+Sherapy]

17 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

In humans there is a wide range of emotional sensitivity and response.

Basically we learn our responses as being appropriate, from  our culture, but even within one culture, emotional responses can vary in degree. 

Some people accept death and loss, without deep feelings. Others tear their clothes and rend their own bodies, in response to grief. 

Human emotional responses are not simply biological, but intellectual constructs of the mind.  Thus we can shape, structure, and express  them, in ways we choose as most beneficial and appropriate.

Some people fear over expression of emotions (sometimes  because it involves loss of control )  Others require it for catharsis.

   

Walker, let’s start over I will help you clean this mess up. 

In actuality, when we say our emotions are shaped by our culture it means culture defines what one is going  to be “emotional about,” for example: let’s take disgust, it is a universal emotion, but the things that are found disgusting are determined by one’s culture. Some may find eating bugs disgusting where another culture may find it a delectable tasty addition to one’s palate. 

A person really “adept” in Psychology 101 would only be using emotional sensitivity, in the context of Autism, or being bipolar, 

When you say that some accept grief and loss all you are describing is the 5th stage of grief, when you say that a person is despondent ( tearing  off their clothes ) you are describing another stage of grief. 

I would counter that It depends on the experience of loss, and the depth of the bond, for example: my grandmother who was 100 died last week, she went peacefully in her sleep after a life of amazing health, she got a bit of dementia when she was 98, other than this she had literally no health issues her whole life even going peacefully in her sleep. My reaction has been what a beautiful ending to a long heathy life, there really isn’t much to grieve so acceptance the last stage of grief is a natural fit. Where as my brother in law who was 23 years old while playing with his 2 year old dropped dead of a heart attack was heart breaking for everyone, the saddest part was his father he was despondent wailing and screaming and to this day (20 years later )misses his son, it would be fair to say that he is still dealing with grief.

My mom never got over my sisters murder, it lead to 2 mental breakdowns, where as my Step-Dad felt a sense of relief that she was in a better place and he didn’t understand why my Mom was so broken hearted. It would take her being committed a few items until he became compassionate  about what she was going  through,  It isn’t that my Mom and brother in laws Dad are more emotionally sensitive and my Dad is less, the relationship, the circumstances, in this case a person on drugs brings a lot of drama and toxicity, and for my Dad to not have this was a relief, and the depth of bonding matters, he didn’t get along with my son sister. When my step dad lost my mom he was an emotional mess, cried, ran up and down the street in his underwear, couldn’t be alone, still can’t, and it has been 5 years and he still misses my mom, he has not moved on. Same man, different relationship and circumstances, he had a deep emotional relationship and investment in my mom. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

33 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Walker, let’s start over I will help you clean this mess up. 

In actuality, when we say our emotions are shaped by our culture it means culture defines what one is going  to be “emotional about,” for example: let’s take disgust, it is a universal emotion, but the things that are found disgusting are determined by one’s culture. Some may find eating bugs disgusting where another culture may find it a delectable tasty addition to one’s palate. 

A person really “adept” in Psychology 101 would only be using emotional sensitivity, in the context of Autism, or being bipolar, 

When you say that some accept grief and loss all you are describing is the 5th stage of grief, when you say that a person is despondent ( tearing  off their clothes ) you are describing another stage of grief. 

I would counter that It depends on the experience of loss, and the depth of the bond, for example: my grandmother who was 100 died last week, she went peacefully in her sleep after a life of amazing health, she got a bit of dementia when she was 98, other than this she had literally no health issues her whole life even going peacefully in her sleep. My reaction has been what a beautiful ending to a long heathy life, there really isn’t much to grieve so acceptance the last stage of grief is a natural fit. Where as my brother in law who was 23 years old while playing with his 2 year old dropped dead of a heart attack was heart breaking for everyone, the saddest part was his father he was despondent wailing and screaming and to this day (20 years later )misses his son, it would be fair to say that he is still dealing with grief.

My mom never got over my sisters murder, it lead to 2 mental breakdowns, where as my Step-Dad felt a sense of relief that she was in a better place and he didn’t understand why my Mom was so broken hearted. It would take her being committed a few items until he became compassionate  about what she was going  through,  It isn’t that my Mom and brother in laws Dad are more emotionally sensitive and my Dad is less, the relationship, the circumstances, in this case a person on drugs brings a lot of drama and toxicity, and for my Dad to not have this was a relief, and the depth of bonding matters, he didn’t get along with my son sister. When my step dad lost my mom he was an emotional mess, cried, ran up and down the street in his underwear, couldn’t be alone, still can’t, and it has been 5 years and he still misses my mom, he has not moved on. Same man, different relationship and circumstances, he had a deep emotional relationship and investment in my mom. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes life stands still, everything frozen in place, in your heart. You try to move past it, but all you wind up doing is twisting in the wind. Some things in life can never be repeated or rebooted. There's only one first time.

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sometimes life stands still, everything frozen in place, in your heart. You try to move past it, but all you wind up doing is twisting in the wind. Some things in life can never be repeated or rebooted. There's only one first time.

Denial is a form of grace, leaving things as they are helps one cope, there is no time limit on grief it is a journey and it can run the duration of a lifetime. 

There are some people who are simply irreplaceable. 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Denial is a form of grace, leaving things as they are helps one cope, there is no time limit on grief it is a journey and it can run the duration of a lifetime. 

There are some people who are simply irreplaceable. 

 

Reminds me of this song.

https://youtu.be/3ap4s6pyoNw

 

[Mr Walker]

10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Walker, let’s start over I will help you clean this mess up. 

In actuality, when we say our emotions are shaped by our culture it means culture defines what one is going  to be “emotional about,” for example: let’s take disgust, it is a universal emotion, but the things that are found disgusting are determined by one’s culture. Some may find eating bugs disgusting where another culture may find it a delectable tasty addition to one’s palate. 

A person really “adept” in Psychology 101 would only be using emotional sensitivity, in the context of Autism, or being bipolar, 

When you say that some accept grief and loss all you are describing is the 5th stage of grief, when you say that a person is despondent ( tearing  off their clothes ) you are describing another stage of grief. 

I would counter that It depends on the experience of loss, and the depth of the bond, for example: my grandmother who was 100 died last week, she went peacefully in her sleep after a life of amazing health, she got a bit of dementia when she was 98, other than this she had literally no health issues her whole life even going peacefully in her sleep. My reaction has been what a beautiful ending to a long heathy life, there really isn’t much to grieve so acceptance the last stage of grief is a natural fit. Where as my brother in law who was 23 years old while playing with his 2 year old dropped dead of a heart attack was heart breaking for everyone, the saddest part was his father he was despondent wailing and screaming and to this day (20 years later )misses his son, it would be fair to say that he is still dealing with grief.

My mom never got over my sisters murder, it lead to 2 mental breakdowns, where as my Step-Dad felt a sense of relief that she was in a better place and he didn’t understand why my Mom was so broken hearted. It would take her being committed a few items until he became compassionate  about what she was going  through,  It isn’t that my Mom and brother in laws Dad are more emotionally sensitive and my Dad is less, the relationship, the circumstances, in this case a person on drugs brings a lot of drama and toxicity, and for my Dad to not have this was a relief, and the depth of bonding matters, he didn’t get along with my son sister. When my step dad lost my mom he was an emotional mess, cried, ran up and down the street in his underwear, couldn’t be alone, still can’t, and it has been 5 years and he still misses my mom, he has not moved on. Same man, different relationship and circumstances, he had a deep emotional relationship and investment in my mom. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clean it up? 

No you did no such thing You refuse to accept that  human level emotions are learned  cognitive constructs, not just the simple biological drivers of other animals 

I did 3 years of psychology a t uni plus two decades of profession counselling, with ongoing professional development over that  time 

Dont try and teach your grandmother to suck eggs

Disgust is not universal 

we have to be taught to be disgusted about anything. SOme people are disgusted by eating bugs others by homosexuality. It depends what we are taught to get disgusted about  BUT no one will be disgusted by anything unless the y were taught (explicitly or implicitly)  as a child, to be disgusted by it 

This is even true for basic emotions like love. Human love is an intellectual, cognitive construct.

A human child who is not shown how to develop the pattern of love in their brain circuits (for example by being loved )  will never able able to feel or express love

every human, via conditioning has a different level of emotional sensitivity, and this differs across difernt emotional forms  Some may laugh more easily while others cry more readily

At the extremes are conditions like autism, Aspergers, sociopathy, or hyper sensitivity, but inside those extremes is a huge range of variation   

The grief cycle is a useful pattern or tool to help us understand  grief,  but is not universal nor is it consistent between people,

You are tight about the nature of the bond but tha t just supports one half of what i am saying.  it also depends on how we  are conditioned form birth to feel and express grief  Plus it depends on our own self awre nature and how we choose to react to loss or separation. My own heritage is in part Scottish, and past journals and writings confirm a tradition of stoicism or dourness in regards to emotional responses Other people from other cultures are taught to respond much more  exuberantly 

Your family examples illustrate what i am saying.  Grief is expressed on many forms and at many levels  it is also felt or perceived at many levels from almost non existent to overwhelming and debilitating  I have attended dozens of funerals and officiated at over a dozen. I've never seen  more than a mild expression of grief at any of them ie  tears and   sadness,  EXCEPT where the grief was made much worse by personal guilt  and regret  it is natural that people grieve at different levels, for different people, under different circumstances.

The greatest grief i have felt  was for a much loved nephew, for whom we cared for many years, and who committed suicide aged 26,  after his mother maintained a total rejection, not just of him, but of his children, as her blood line 

We organised and paid for his funeral, supported his partner and children, and I gave the eulogy.  His was the only death in my life  which caused me anger, and which affected me for years to come, not just because we loved him deeply, but because the death was so unnecessary. 

[danydandan]

Sadness, Disgust, Fear, Surprise, Happiness and Anger are all universal human emotions all displayed by exactly the same facial expressions. I'm pretty sure contempt may also be one. 

Ekman's work supports this obviously people like Barrett disagree, but his work is rather convincing.

[+Sherapy]

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Clean it up? 

No you did no such thing You refuse to accept that  human level emotions are learned  cognitive constructs, not just the simple biological drivers of other animals 

I did 3 years of psychology a t uni plus two decades of profession counselling, with ongoing professional development over that  time 

Dont try and teach your grandmother to suck eggs

Disgust is not universal 

we have to be taught to be disgusted about anything. SOme people are disgusted by eating bugs others by homosexuality. It depends what we are taught to get disgusted about  BUT no one will be disgusted by anything unless the y were taught (explicitly or implicitly)  as a child, to be disgusted by it 

This is even true for basic emotions like love. Human love is an intellectual, cognitive construct.

A human child who is not shown how to develop the pattern of love in their brain circuits (for example by being loved )  will never able able to feel or express love

every human, via conditioning has a different level of emotional sensitivity, and this differs across difernt emotional forms  Some may laugh more easily while others cry more readily

At the extremes are conditions like autism, Aspergers, sociopathy, or hyper sensitivity, but inside those extremes is a huge range of variation   

The grief cycle is a useful pattern or tool to help us understand  grief,  but is not universal nor is it consistent between people,

You are tight about the nature of the bond but tha t just supports one half of what i am saying.  it also depends on how we  are conditioned form birth to feel and express grief  Plus it depends on our own self awre nature and how we choose to react to loss or separation. My own heritage is in part Scottish, and past journals and writings confirm a tradition of stoicism or dourness in regards to emotional responses Other people from other cultures are taught to respond much more  exuberantly 

Your family examples illustrate what i am saying.  Grief is expressed on many forms and at many levels  it is also felt or perceived at many levels from almost non existent to overwhelming and debilitating  I have attended dozens of funerals and officiated at over a dozen. I've never seen  more than a mild expression of grief at any of them ie  tears and   sadness,  EXCEPT where the grief was made much worse by personal guilt  and regret  it is natural that people grieve at different levels, for different people, under different circumstances.

The greatest grief i have felt  was for a much loved nephew, for whom we cared for many years, and who committed suicide aged 26,  after his mother maintained a total rejection, not just of him, but of his children, as her blood line 

We organised and paid for his funeral, supported his partner and children, and I gave the eulogy.  His was the only death in my life  which caused me anger, and which affected me for years to come, not just because we loved him deeply, but because the death was so unnecessary. 

MW, Dan already addressed the universal emotions, I am not going to say much more other than you need to update your understanding, you are in error. 

You haven’t offered anything new to our grief discussion other than to restate that there are a multitude of symptoms associated with the stages of grief, different experiences of death bring different symptoms, we have no dispute on this point.

https://www.crossroadshospice.com/hospice-palliative-care-blog/2017/august/30/why-experts-talk-about-symptoms-not-stages-of-grief/

Yes, adult human love has a cognitive component to it, some emotions (high order) don’t even come into pay until the cerebral cortex has developed, so an infant has no cognitive component to love at this stage, remember an infant is prelinguistic at this point. Biologically this is known as  attachment, of course there are attachment styles : Secure, Avoidant, or Anxious-ambivalent.

Your claim that one would not be unable to love, “ever” if they weren’t taught to love as an infant is nonsense. Of course, this is anecdotal, so for whatever it is worth my therapist told me this story of this child that was kept in a cage by his/her parents and the child was let out to eat with the dogs and the love from the dogs allowed her or him to attach and bond. I can’t find the story online but I will ask my therapist next week when I go. Her point in telling me of the human spirit and how it can survive the most horrendous of circumstances.

The plasticity of the brain is an amazing thing and  our experiences ( learning) as adults can create new avenues to love, love is more than the cognitive component. It is also biological and emotional. 

 This is a fun topic, I would suggest the Handbook of Attachment if you find this interesting, it is the latest in research, theory and clinical applications. 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

On 19/06/2019 at 8:48 AM, Sherapy said:

MW, Dan already addressed the universal emotions, I am not going to say much more other than you need to update your understanding, you are in error. 

You haven’t offered anything new to our grief discussion other than to restate that there are a multitude of symptoms associated with the stages of grief, different experiences of death bring different symptoms, we have no dispute on this point.

https://www.crossroadshospice.com/hospice-palliative-care-blog/2017/august/30/why-experts-talk-about-symptoms-not-stages-of-grief/

Yes, adult human love has a cognitive component to it, some emotions (high order) don’t even come into pay until the cerebral cortex has developed, so an infant has no cognitive component to love at this stage, remember an infant is prelinguistic at this point. Biologically this is known as  attachment, of course there are attachment styles : Secure, Avoidant, or Anxious-ambivalent.

Your claim that one would not be unable to love, “ever” if they weren’t taught to love as an infant is nonsense. Of course, this is anecdotal, so for whatever it is worth my therapist told me this story of this child that was kept in a cage by his/her parents and the child was let out to eat with the dogs and the love from the dogs allowed her or him to attach and bond. I can’t find the story online but I will ask my therapist next week when I go. Her point in telling me of the human spirit and how it can survive the most horrendous of circumstances.

The plasticity of the brain is an amazing thing and  our experiences ( learning) as adults can create new avenues to love, love is more than the cognitive component. It is also biological and emotional. 

 This is a fun topic, I would suggest the Handbook of Attachment if you find this interesting, it is the latest in research, theory and clinical applications. 

 

 

 

 

 I actually accept Barret's  work as more academic and convincing 

However the nature of human thought and cognition is increasingly well understood

All primates share some basic biological drivers which are often called emotions. These are however biologically driven or environmental learned BEHAVIOURS. not concepts, constructs or ideals.  BUT human level emotions are language based.They are abstract, cognitive constructs.   

And no it is not anecdotal.  It is now known, both through neuro science and human cognition; and psychology, that human love is a specific pattern of firings of neurons in the human brein.

To establish that pattern one must experience and be taught love so the brain learns the pattern Only  then  can it  reproduce it and learn to love as a form of cognition 

Your story proves my point The child learned the nature of love as cognitive pattern from how it was treated by the animals (as far as i know however this is an apocryphal story Almost no real cases of such children are known to science) 

And yes due to the plasticity of the brain a person can learn to grow the neuro patterns for love past childhood, but like all such patterns including the abilty to speak or walk  it is more difficult as you get older  And if the child is NEVER taught how to establish those patterns ( even as an a adult ) it will never be able to love  Love is no different to speech in this regard.  

quote

 

Semantic pointers  show how binding into mental representations can take place through the activities of large populations of spiking neurons. Hence the feeling of being in love at any particular moment can be identified with patterns of neural firing that result from binding by convolution of other patterns of neural firing carrying out representations of self, other, and the integration of appraisal and physiology. Neural firing results from neuron-neuron interactions that depend on molecular mechanisms using neurotransmitters such as dopamine and serotonin, as well as on  hormones  such as oxytocin, vasopressin, testosterone, and estrogen.   Therefore, falling in love is not just chemistry, feeling, or recognizing a soul-mate, but the emergent result of the interaction of social, mental, neural, and molecular mechanisms.

Like other mental states, love is both an occurrence and a disposition. The occurrence of love as an active feeling is the complex pattern of neural firing just described. But love is also a disposition to have this feeling at various times, such as when you are asleep or concerned with other matters.  You do not have to be thinking about someone to be in love with that person. 

A mental disposition is a property of  mechanisms where the parts can operate in different ways depending on environmental inputs. At the neural level, the disposition to generate particular kinds of firing patterns results from synaptic connections formed by previous experience through various kinds of learning.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hot-thought/201508/what-is-love

Ps human love is not attachment based. It is an intellectual construct based on a variety, and multitude, of individual needs and desires 

Biological, and hence psychological,  attachment  (either adult to child or between adults)   is actually the antithesis of love, because love needs no physical element to it a t all.   It can exist entirely within your brain/mind. 

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Mr Walker

[openozy]

On 03/06/2019 at 4:10 AM, Mr Guitar said:

why bring the heart into it

I believe you feel emotions in your heart,like when you lose your first love or when a close friend or family members dies,it feels like your heart drops.

[Mr Guitar]

9 hours ago, openozy said:

I believe you feel emotions in your heart,like when you lose your first love or when a close friend or family members dies,it feels like your heart drops.

I disagree - you don't feel anything with your heart, but you do experience sadness, loss, and disappointment in your thoughts which are purely brain centered.

[openozy]

4 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

I disagree - you don't feel anything with your heart, but you do experience sadness, loss, and disappointment in your thoughts which are purely brain centered.

I know its brain centred but I can feel it physically in my heart.

[Michelle]

Breakdown of a Broken Heart

Broken heart syndrome, also called stress-induced cardiomyopathy or takotsubo cardiomyopathy, can strike even if you’re healthy. (Tako tsubo, by the way, are octopus traps that resemble the pot-like shape of the stricken heart.)

Women are more likely than men to experience the sudden, intense chest pain — the reaction to a surge of stress hormones — that can be caused by an emotionally stressful event. It could be the death of a loved one or even a divorce, breakup or physical separation, betrayal or romantic rejection. It could even happen after a good shock (like winning the lottery.)

https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cardiomyopathy/what-is-cardiomyopathy-in-adults/is-broken-heart-syndrome-real

[Duke Wellington]

On ‎02‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 7:10 PM, Mr Guitar said:

We've all heard a phrase like "Evil (or goodness, as the case may be) is in the hearts and minds of man". I agree that those things do exist in the mind of man/woman but why bring the heart into it? It has no cognitive capability and only exists to  push fluids here and there around the bodily factory. Whoever decided the heart was at the root of anything? Maybe it's just me as I tend to be very unemotional and distrustful of those who are. My heart can't love or hate - it can only pump (which is a good thing).

I assume you are referring to the point in the heart.

It is symbolic, and just means considering the needs of God and the rest of the universe (which includes other people).