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danydandan

Todd Coontz

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danydandan

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47675301

 

The link above is a very good and interesting link about the scumbag's that are Evangelical preachers who live in the lap of luxury while continually asking poor venerable followers for money. This article focused on a preacher called Todd Coontz.

Quote

I sounds simple, absurdly so, but Coontz knows his audience extremely well. He broadcasts on Christian cable channels, often late into the night, drawing in viewers who lack financial literacy and are desperate for change.

"I understand the laws that govern insurance, stocks and bonds and all that is involved with Wall Street," he once said, looking directly into the camera. "God has called me… as a financial deliverer."

Crucially, he always refers to the money as a "seed" - a $273 seed, a $333 seed, a "turnaround" seed, depending on the broadcast. If viewers "plant" one, the amount will come back to them, multiplied, he says. It is an investment in their faith and their future.

Poor Larry got swindled by this scumbag. These preachers are like weeds, you pull one three more appear. Obviously I'm not American, but why is there no political will for stopping this scam and arresting the scammer? Should the victims be ashamed of themselves? Are the preachers not doing exactly the same thing as theft and false advertising?

As a sceptic these are the types of people we should be going after, not the people who are often venomously rebuked on this site. 

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Golden Duck

It sounds like a spiritual Ponzi scheme.

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Rlyeh

All Evangelicals are somewhere on the scumbag meter.

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

It sounds like a spiritual Ponzi scheme.

Popov is my favorite scumbag, gets caught doing 'hot readings' by James Raandi goes underground for a decade or two and is now back selling Jerusalem water or something claiming it's holy. 

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danydandan
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

All Evangelicals are somewhere on the scumbag meter.

Ah that's not true, that's like saying all Catholic priests are pedophiles.

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Rlyeh
Just now, danydandan said:

Ah that's not true, that's like saying all Catholic priests are pedophiles.

Not at all, pedophilia isn't a requirement of Catholicism.  But all evangelicals are intellectual parasites.

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danydandan
5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Not at all, pedophilia isn't a requirement of Catholicism.  But all evangelicals are intellectual parasites.

There millions of people who would claim to follow Evangelism, many here in Ireland, I've never seen anyone do anything resembling what this Coontz and his ilk do here in Ireland. 

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Rlyeh
Just now, danydandan said:

There millions of people who would claim to follow Evangelism, many here in Ireland, I've never seen anyone do anything resembling what this Coontz and his ilk do here in Ireland. 

I'm not saying they all do that what he did, but evangelism is about spread their overdramatic born-again bull****.

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danydandan
8 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

I'm not saying they all do that what he did, but evangelism is about spread their overdramatic born-again bull****.

Not really sure about that, especially the born again stuff, it's about preaching or spreading the word of God. But that's not limited to word of mouth it can simply be about helping others, giving money or doing charitable work.

I've known/ know many people who proclaim to be Evangelical some are d********s, some are holier than thou, some are nice, some would go out of their way to help you, but never has anyone of them preached to me.

Painting everyone with the same brush is erroneous, in my opinion. 

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eight bits
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, danydandan said:

Obviously I'm not American, but why is there no political will for stopping this scam and arresting the scammer? Should the victims be ashamed of themselves? Are the preachers not doing exactly the same thing as theft and false advertising?

I've never seen Mr Coontz' work, but by the description, it is a franker version of what pastor Paula White serves up. White has a theory of first fruits: if you're unemployed, then pray for a job and when you get one, you send her your first pay check. I believe she also offers a "seed" plan to ramp up your prayers' efficacy. In any case, her pitch is similar to investment advice: whatever money is sent to her, maybe God will remit more to the donor. Ms White earns mention since President Trump is an admirer of her ministry.

Coontz' bold "I understand the laws that govern insurance, stocks and bonds and all that is involved with Wall Street," sounds less biblical than Stranger in a Strange Land. The prosperity of Michael Valentine Smith's church was based in part on grokking the ways of finance and real property investment.

Then again, maybe Coontz' statement is simply the fact of the matter - that he really does understand the law of financial regulation. if Coontz and White left God out of it, and instead solicited the public to invest in "lucrative" secular insurance or stock market schemes, then their commercial speech would be heavily regulated here in the United States. So, they do drag God into it, and their religious speech is protected rather than regulated. There are some limits (e.g. engaging in overtly political speech would jeopardize their exemption from taxation), but what lines there are are often blurry, and for some subjects, there are no lines.

Are the preachers not doing exactly the same thing as theft and false advertising? That depends on whether or not God does in fact reward those who seed Mr Coontz and those who first-fruit Ms White. That's a religious question. Coontz and White are not only entitled to hold their opinion, but they are also entitled to publicize their opinion.

Those persuaded by the Coontz-White public religious exposition may indeed respond with a donation. That donation, too, is protected religious expression. Thus, the donation is tax deductible to the donor, which other more typical investments are not. Mr Walker has recently instructed all of us here on what financial miracles can be accomplished with tax deductions.

I do understand that from an off-shore perspective, all of this sounds insane. Nevertheless, that is the law here.

Edited by eight bits
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danydandan
1 hour ago, eight bits said:

I've never seen Mr Coontz' work, but by the description, it is a franker version of what pastor Paula White serves up. White has a theory of first fruits: if you're unemployed, then pray for a job and when you get one, you send her your first pay check. I believe she also offers a "seed" plan to ramp up your prayers' efficacy. In any case, her pitch is similar to investment advice: whatever money is sent to her, maybe God will remit more to the donor. Ms White earns mention since President Trump is an admirer of her ministry.

Coontz' bold "I understand the laws that govern insurance, stocks and bonds and all that is involved with Wall Street," sounds less biblical than Stranger in a Strange Land. The prosperity of Michael Valentine Smith's church was based in part on grokking the ways of finance and real property investment.

Then again, maybe Coontz' statement is simply the fact of the matter - that he really does understand the law of financial regulation. if Coontz and White left God out of it, and instead solicited the public to invest in "lucrative" secular insurance or stock market schemes, then their commercial speech would be heavily regulated here in the United States. So, they do drag God into it, and their religious speech is protected rather than regulated. There are some limits (e.g. engaging in overtly political speech would jeopardize their exemption from taxation), but what lines there are are often blurry, and for some subjects, there are no lines.

Are the preachers not doing exactly the same thing as theft and false advertising? That depends on whether or not God does in fact reward those who seed Mr Coontz and those who first-fruit Ms White. That's a religious question. Coontz and White are not only entitled to hold their opinion, but they are also entitled to publicize their opinion.

Those persuaded by the Coontz-White public religious exposition may indeed respond with a donation. That donation, too, is protected religious expression. Thus, the donation is tax deductible to the donor, which other more typical investments are not. Mr Walker has recently instructed all of us here on what financial miracles can be accomplished with tax deductions.

I do understand that from an off-shore perspective, all of this sounds insane. Nevertheless, that is the law here.

It certainly is insane. In my opinion...... I wonder if a Muslim Evangelical type person was doing the same thing in the US, would it be held in the same vein. By that I mean, given credence.

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Farmer77
4 hours ago, danydandan said:

Obviously I'm not American, but why is there no political will for stopping this scam and arresting the scammer? Should the victims be ashamed of themselves?

Its because the line between legitimate christian organizations and folks like these is very very blurry, if it exists at all. The elected class cant risk p***ing off a very passionate chunk of their voting base.

 

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eight bits
1 hour ago, danydandan said:

I wonder if a Muslim Evangelical type person was doing the same thing in the US, would it be held in the same vein. By that I mean, given credence.

The legal protections would be identical. Would it pay, given how few Muslims there are here relative to Protestants? I don't know. There was (and probably still is) a largely African-American political-religious Muslim group called The Nation of Islam. The leaders of that seem to have made out all right materially, at least in the past.

 

27 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its because the line between legitimate christian organizations and folks like these is very very blurry, if it exists at all. The elected class cant risk p***ing off a very passionate chunk of their voting base.

Agree in part and disagree in part. Agreed that the relationship between Paula White and President Trump is probably a calculated thing on both sides, mercenary and political. But then in other times, Trump was associated with Norman Vincent Peale and his church in New York City.

Was Peale (a Christian pastor, best known nationwide for a popular series of self-help books and related enterprises) a "legitimate Christian," in any sense that Paula White isn't?

That's where the disagreement comes in. I like it that whatever else is crazy about American religious law, the government stays out of who's a "legitimate" Christian and who isn't. Politics isn't the driver here; the government stays out of it, full stop (or semi-colon at least :) ).

Besides, Coontz or Pope Francis, God always seems to have left his wallet at home and needs money.

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, eight bits said:

The legal protections would be identical. Would it pay, given how few Muslims there are here relative to Protestants? I don't know. There was (and probably still is) a largely African-American political-religious Muslim group called The Nation of Islam. The leaders of that seem to have made out all right materially, at least in the past.

They are the lads who stole, Muhammad Ali's money?

I understand the legal protections would be identical, however would the public turn as blind an eye to it if, insert generic Muslim name here, started asking for donations from his congregation and beyond. In an attempt to appease God. Or even Muhammad?

Edited by danydandan
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LucidElement
Posted (edited)

Guy was sentenced to 5 years in prison. He will be spreading something and it isnt the word of God. hahaha

 
Edited by LucidElement
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danydandan
44 minutes ago, LucidElement said:

Guy was sentenced to 5 years in prison. He will be spreading something and it isnt the word of God. hahaha

 

He will will be wailing God's name I reckon.

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LucidElement
18 minutes ago, danydandan said:

He will will be wailing God's name I reckon.

HAHAHAHAHA! this is to easy.

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danydandan
27 minutes ago, LucidElement said:

HAHAHAHAHA! this is to easy.

That's what they said!

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Impedancer
Posted (edited)

Make a small donation in the name of the lord and i will then throw the money up in the air and get to keep what lands on the floor. :-)

Edited by Impedancer

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Golden Duck
8 hours ago, Impedancer said:

Make a small donation in the name of the lord and i will then throw the money up in the air and get to keep what lands on the floor. :-)

Dave Allen

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Guyver
18 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

All Evangelicals are somewhere on the scumbag meter.

I was an evangelical, and I believed in most of the Christian woo, but not the frauds like Popov...that stuff became known.  I did actually believe a lot of that stuff at one time, but I was not a scumbag.  I was real about it and good.  Now, I realize how misguided I was.....and to some degree, I’m sorry about it.....but at the same time, I really rejoice in that because it led me so search real truth out.  I am so glad for where I am now....but it would be the ultimate hypocrisy for me to hate evangelicals.

Yet, when you claimed they were intellectual parasites,....I do have to chuckle, and agree.  But that is the nature of religious fanaticism.  This is what people do when they’re that deep in it.  It’s like flat earthers.  That’s real, people actually believe that.

Things are changing, the world is evolving, things are getting better, but that fear based religious extremism....will stay alive because of the persecution/Jesus/ hero complex that is deep in people.  

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Guyver
19 hours ago, danydandan said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47675301

 

The link above is a very good and interesting link about the scumbag's that are Evangelical preachers who live in the lap of luxury while continually asking poor venerable followers for money. This article focused on a preacher called Todd Coontz.

For me, the whole evangelical philosophy and practice is left over from Catholicism, which as a European you no doubt know something about, and it’s about converting people to Christianity in the guise of saving their souls.  

What it has done to the world is gross in my view, and the entire religion completely crazy.  After so much real thought on the matter, after being freed from religious fear, these people are like spiritual idiots.  Yet, I can’t judge it because I once was it, and I realize that everyone is going to believe something.  So, some people prefer to let others tell them what to believe, and we have to realize that is a part of the population.  

If you think of it statistically, half the worlds population is of below average intelligence.  So, there’s a bunch of stupid people in the world, but that’s the way it is and will be,

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Hammerclaw

Reminds me of Jim and Tammy Bakker. This song about them seems appropriate for this guy, too.

 

 

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