Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sir Smoke aLot

Kushner's ''brilliant'' peace deal

14 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Sir Smoke aLot

Article on The Guardian, LINK

From the article :

''Kushner – who is considering delaying the publication of the political portion of his peace plan because of the need for new parliamentary elections in Israel – said it would be “a high bar” when asked if Palestinians could expect freedom from Israeli military and government interference.

Meanwhile, in a leaked off-the-record briefing, the US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, doused expectations that the plan would lead to an immediate breakthrough, admitting it might be rejected, and adding: “I get why people think this is going to be a deal that only the Israelis could love.”''

When full details are revealed there will be no surprises. Palestinian independence and sovereignty are off the table, as always. What is the point of negotiations and ''peace deals'' if those do not include right for self determination of Palestinian people? Such proposals were rejected earlier and will always be rejected, any self respecting human would rather fight for freedom than to be fooled into giving legitimacy to military rule, for first time in history.

Quote from the article :

''Kushner, who is due to meet British officials this week as part of Trump’s visit to the UK to discuss the plan, is still intending to publish the economic portion of the proposals covering Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt at a two-day workshop in Bahrain attended by prominent regional businessmen and mainly Arab finance ministers.

Airports, seaports, industrial zones and power stations are all envisaged in a plan that has an emphasis on infrastructure, and is in some ways modelled on the Saudi 2030 plan for modernisation, as well as on countries in south-east Asia that have been transformed.''

Basically this is what Israeli far right and most fanatical sections of society and politics were trying to accomplish since they've entered the land back in late 1800's. To remove Palestinian native population in neighboring Arab states so that Palestine will be left to Israel. Why should Palestinians leave West Bank? For few infrastructure investments, hotels and businesses which are promised to be built for them? They can simply extract Dead Sea resources and build those by themselves, if military rule is abolished :D

Surely Nobel peace prize candidate, regardless if the deal succeeds or not.

And another hint for promises... Quote :

''He said of the Palestinians: “I do think they should have self-determination. I’m going to leave the details until we come out with the actual plan.”

Asked whether he believed the Palestinians were capable of governing themselves without Israeli interference, Kushner said: “That’s a very good question. That’s one that we’ll have to see. The hope is that they, over time, will become capable of governing.”''

Essentially, Palestinians should sign the deal and wait until Israel thinks that they are fit to self governance :D 

Smart man this Kushner is, as if Palestinians did not wait already :

LossOfLandMapCard.png

Only reason behind such arrogant ''peace'' proposal is belief of having superiority both in military and political terms. While it's not far from truth it also shows weakness. With Trump there is a chance to have USA support and signature for any kind of deal so Israeli lobbyists and friends are doing all they can to get that on paper so that they can do one sided actions. And what is most interesting to me is who gave Kushner position to work on this deal?

Much smarter and wiser people with decades of diplomatic experience have failed and we should expect this green Israeli supporter with no diplomatic experience to do something just and to bring peace? Especially after this administration has hit Palestinians so hard already. 

I did not write details which are believed to have been leaked so far but soon we will have confirmation about details of this top level scam.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
and then
12 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

What is the point of negotiations and ''peace deals'' if those do not include right for self determination of Palestinian people?

Can you please explain your vision for how this would be accomplished?  How would we know they had "self-determination"?  If it means giving them everything they demand then obviously, that isn't happening.  From the little that I've heard about the plan, there is a heavy emphasis on improving their daily lives and also their outlook for prosperity in the future.  Major infusions of cash to build up infrastructure and seed business to boost employment.  If they'd rather keep throwing rocks and rockets then I guess they'll keep dying.  Their choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot
25 minutes ago, and then said:

Can you please explain your vision for how this would be accomplished?

Self determination, link to Wikipedia article.

From the article, quote:

''The right of a people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms. It states that people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.''

Zionists got their country based on this and only this, as long as law is concerned. Palestinians never had that chance and were prevented because, back in 1930's when Arabs were promised elections it was stopped by British mandate because such elections would prevent land thefts. 

29 minutes ago, and then said:

If it means giving them everything they demand then obviously, that isn't happening

See above, that's the only thing they want but it's too much because it would prevent Zionist fantasy.

30 minutes ago, and then said:

From the little that I've heard about the plan, there is a heavy emphasis on improving their daily lives and also their outlook for prosperity in the future.

You never read what i write or you just avoid parts which you can not explain. I said: 

47 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

o remove Palestinian native population in neighboring Arab states so that Palestine will be left to Israel. Why should Palestinians leave West Bank? For few infrastructure investments, hotels and businesses which are promised to be built for them? They can simply extract Dead Sea resources and build those by themselves, if military rule is abolished :D

So why should they ''enjoy'' that which was seen as aggression before? Aggression is to have your adversary chose what you can and what you can not. How would you feel if Russia would decide about how much oil can be used in USA? How many universities can be made? What kind of hotels? What school books? When to give you money which is collected by taxes from American citizens?

If they say that they will build you new Washington city would you give your sovereignty for that? Based on your questions here i believe that you would consider it at least, because you seem confused about why Palestinians are rejecting such 'heavenly' offer, which, BTW, was on the table forever, to sign capitulation that is. 

38 minutes ago, and then said:

If they'd rather keep throwing rocks and rockets then I guess they'll keep dying.  Their choice.

I am glad that you understand at least some of what is stated here. It's exactly language of force which Israel is using against Palestinians. Give in to our demands or keep dying. Keep having Israeli settler fanatics interrupt your prayers in Mosques while they are escorted by IDF. Muslims pray in silence and settler fanatics dance around them, mock them... What kind of choice is that? If IDF will continue to be the only security agency of Palestinians what choice they have but to keep dying lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
10 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

What kind of choice is that? If IDF will continue to be the only security agency of Palestinians what choice they have but to keep dying l

Too much hate and too much bloodshed over too long a span of time.  The settler movement is as crazy as the Hamas in their designs for the future.  The Hamas leadership is basically an organized crime syndicate and will not give up power.  They aren't interested in being productive, constructive leaders that actually help make life better for the Palestinians.  Perpetual strife and bloodshed is their ticket to power.  Sadly, either Israel or the Palestinians are going to have to utterly destroy and remove the other for there to ever be peace.  I believe both sides WILL accept a peace deal.  I have no idea if it will be THIS peace deal.  The Israel/Palestinian war has been ongoing for over 70 years.  At some point, there is going to be such destruction and loss of life that they're both going to have to do a deal or vanish as political power bases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot
4 minutes ago, and then said:

Too much hate and too much bloodshed over too long a span of time.  The settler movement is as crazy as the Hamas in their designs for the future.  The Hamas leadership is basically an organized crime syndicate and will not give up power.  They aren't interested in being productive, constructive leaders that actually help make life better for the Palestinians.  Perpetual strife and bloodshed is their ticket to power.  Sadly, either Israel or the Palestinians are going to have to utterly destroy and remove the other for there to ever be peace.  I believe both sides WILL accept a peace deal.  I have no idea if it will be THIS peace deal.  The Israel/Palestinian war has been ongoing for over 70 years.  At some point, there is going to be such destruction and loss of life that they're both going to have to do a deal or vanish as political power bases.

That's why without concessions from both sides there can't be peace and justice. Only thing which is certain is that time works in favor of Israel or any occupying power anywhere. That's the way things are. Given enough time demographics will ( and did in this case ) change to the point of new claims being made. Exactly the reason why international law was made, to prevent absurdities, violence and aggression as a mean of territorial expansion.

In West Bank, along with other projects in last few years, new 800 block of settlements are planned, with construction already starting. To critically thinking mind this is territorial expansion and aggression. Under international law it is seen exactly like that with majority of world nations condemning such moves.

After 2006 everyone realized one thing, that Israel speaks only language of power. Hezbollah knows that and that's why Lebanon is free from war ever since. First country which stopped isis on it's borders without them entering Lebanon. Feat to congratulate on.

Israel knows that if they bomb Beirut, Tel Aviv will burn. Since 2006 Hezbollah did not attack so that also shows how the region only responds to Israeli aggression, rather than being the one promoting it, regardless of legality.

Even if deal was just in some sick way Palestinians should reject it because it was made by Israeli regime. A lot of money is behind this i just hope that Egypt and Sisi are above that as much as Sadat was not above it.

Question, do you respect Pompeo? Do you support actions of this administration? Based on that, you also support his conclusion that this deal will be loved by Israelis? Solution to this equation is rather simple one, Palestinians will reject it as it's worse that older plans which envisioned some sort of independence in Gaza and West Bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
2 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

you also support his conclusion that this deal will be loved by Israelis?

Yes, I respect Pompeo, I think he has earned it.  You misquoted him, BTW.  He said he understood why people would think this was a deal only Israelis could love.  I don't know what that means, exactly, but we are yet to see the details and I can't imagine Trump, who prides himself as a deal maker, offering something that would instantly be shot down for being unfair to one and not both.  The peace will come, guaranteed.  It will last 3.5 years or 42 months, then all hell breaks loose on this world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot
1 minute ago, and then said:

Yes, I respect Pompeo, I think he has earned it.  You misquoted him, BTW.  He said he understood why people would think this was a deal only Israelis could love.  I don't know what that means, exactly, but we are yet to see the details and I can't imagine Trump, who prides himself as a deal maker, offering something that would instantly be shot down for being unfair to one and not both.  The peace will come, guaranteed.  It will last 3.5 years or 42 months, then all hell breaks loose on this world.

I am not sure if it's misquoted i just read it in this article, seems to be quite clear statement so there is no misquote from me but from The Guardian maybe? It's really clear statement and doesn't feel as something which was taken out of context.

 As i hear many in the USA do not believe in ''The art of Deal Making'' because of some business problems which Trump had. Anyhow, politics is different, you can not buy opposition or countries. I would maybe accept the vision of deals proposed and made by Bush but who gave Kushner the position is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
On 6/3/2019 at 8:44 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Much smarter and wiser people with decades of diplomatic experience have failed and we should expect this green Israeli supporter with no diplomatic experience to do something just and to bring peace? Especially after this administration has hit Palestinians so hard already. 

 

It's nor really his fault.  Wouldn't you feel frustrated too if you had to wear the skirt around the house?  If you'd have to take it out on somebody the Palestinians are easy pickings and available so.........:P

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot
11 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

It's nor really his fault.  Wouldn't you feel frustrated too if you had to wear the skirt around the house?  If you'd have to take it out on somebody the Palestinians are easy pickings and available so.........:P

That's tough :D I hope that the skirt doesn't get to tight because it could burst in unexpected ways lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoofGardener

If there is going to be ANY kind of peace, then the PLO have to abandon their constitutional commitment to the destruction of Israel first. They promised that they had done this back in the Oslo negotiations, but they lied. 

How can there be a peace agreement when one side is formally committed to the destruction of the other ? 

They're going to run out of money soon ANYWAY... and possibly VERY soon (within the next 3 months). Both Israel the the United States have withheld funds from them until they stop financially rewarding terrorists and murderers. (exacerbated by the USA cutting its contributions to UNRWA - a major employer of Palestinian Arabs - until that moribund organisation reforms itself). 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Earl.Of.Trumps

Here's Kushner's brilliancy: "Jews get it all".

done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Here's Kushner's brilliancy: "Jews get it all".

done!

Hardly.  They won't even get to hold onto most of what they have.  But it won't matter because unless the Arab States abandon the Palestinians and stop supporting them like the welfare case they've been for 70 years, the Palestinians will never change the status quo.  Additionally, they will never honor any agreement - long term - that leaves a Jewish state in place on land they see as Islamic.  They CAN'T.  It would be to refute their religion.

Edited by and then

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Earl.Of.Trumps
41 minutes ago, and then said:

the Palestinians will never change the status quo.  Additionally, they will never honor any agreement - long term - that leaves a Jewish state in place on land they see as Islamic. 

For one, and then, the Palestinians need not make any deals that they have to adhere to, they are the victims that need protection. Let's not forget that Israel broke their agreement with the UN and started taking land set aside as mandated Palestine. The Israelis have to get out of occupied Mandated Palestine, that's number one, and if that does not happen, then anything goes in love and war.

Same with Golan. Why must the Syrians make a deal (stop declaring a state of war) to get the UN to remove the occupiers?  Of course the Syrians should be angry, and that land theft gets rectified *first*,,, then the Syrians will change their status toward Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

then anything goes in love and war.

Except, oddly, when Israel kicks the shut out of those that attempt to murder their kids, then hide behind children.  Pick one, Earl, you can't have it both ways.  I, for one, think Israel should mass deport all of them into Jordan and kill any who attempt to return.  They should show them precisely the same level of mercy that the Palestinians show their kids.  There can be only one owner when one side absolutely refuses to share.  I've chosen those I support.  I have no regrets.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.