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South Alabam

Who will the Democratic nominee be?

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I say **** corporations that are charging outrageous and increasing rates for something that should be a basic human right.

This is why I cant be a libertarian. The corporations have too much power and we as a society have been conditioned to be their b****es.

Price Of College Increasing Almost 8 Times Faster Than Wages

I'd tend to agree, the problem IMHO isn't the debt, but the Cost. And it is the Debt that Dems are focused on.

We could have cheap education, we just need to convince people making 150-250k a year to settle for 50k. Figure out why the Cost is so much and then cut into it.

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

It doesnt have to happen to everyone. Between a reprioritizing of our funds, marijuana legalization and taxation and the addition of wealth tax it doesnt have to be like the right wing tv hosts tell you it has to be

Conscience-Stricken Billionaires Beg 2020 Candidates: Take Our Money

 

I'm not completely against such things. I do feel that people who don't want to pay property tax, don't buy property. With a wealth tax there's no not being wealthy. Those Billionares who want to give more.... Let's see them give it! Put their money where their mouths are.

As to pot legalization. Here in Oregon we legalized it and there was a lot of talk about SO MUCH money. Last year pot brought in about 200 million dollars in a 40 billion dollar budget. So... added about 0.5%. Which, while useful, isn't the rainbow world saver that was sold to the public.

Edited by DieChecker
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F3SS
12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

That is the responsible thing to do.  So did I, but I ate a lot of 5 cent ramen in the day so I lived on the cheap and worked.

That doesn't mean it has to be free.  Clean up the crazy charges and make things more reasonable to keep the debts small.  My textbooks cost $10-15 new and I could by them used.   Textbooks today can cost upwards of $100 easy, and wages have not gone up 10x in the same time.

On the other hand, there is the possibility of  exchanging tuition for after graduation work.  I know little towns in Eastern Oregon, and probably all over the country that will pay medical school tuition  if the graduating doctor signs up to work in their town for a period of several years.  The doctor gets tuition and gets paid for his or her work, but probably not as much as he or she would in a large town.  Good deal for everybody.

Maybe that sort of thing could be expanded into other fields.  Seriously, I don't think we are producing enough scientists, engineers and technical people to stay ahead of China and India. It would be good fro the security of the country and economy if we signed up young people to work on projects we need.  Kind of a technical job corps.

Schools been expensive for quite a while but when the feds took over in 2010 the costs have gone through the roof so I don't know how to lower costs. That sucks but it's beyond me. I've been thinking lately that the public school system could do a better job of preparing kids for what's ahead. It seems like we were taught how to absorb information which is fine but there's a lot of information they never spoke about. They always said college was important but they never taught us how loans and interest work NTM added costs such as books and living. 

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Robotic Jew
5 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Schools been expensive for quite a while but when the feds took over in 2010 the costs have gone through the roof so I don't know how to lower costs. That sucks but it's beyond me. I've been thinking lately that the public school system could do a better job of preparing kids for what's ahead. It seems like we were taught how to absorb information which is fine but there's a lot of information they never spoke about. They always said college was important but they never taught us how loans and interest work NTM added costs such as books and living. 

The public school system isn't equipped to prepare kids for most of what life has in store for them in a majority of areas. The entire american education system is broken and is only getting worse. I can remember my senior year in high school being told several times that my parents should be the ones taking out and repaying my loans for college so I shouldn't be concerned with the process. I was baffled even then at how that sounded as I was living on my own and hadn't spoken to my parents in years at that point.

If student loan forgiveness is not an option the people are willing to accept we at least need to overhaul the system to make relief and repayment easier. I worked for a debt collection agency that collected on defaulted student loans for about 8 years and there is literally no way to escape the debt other than death. They're immune to bankruptcy, while in default they accrue DAILY interest that inflates the amount you owe with no cap, and getting a garnishment on your wages if you do have a job is a walk in the park when compared to what private companies have to go through and the amount they're allowed to garnish each paycheck could easily destroy somebody's ability to live even a marginal existence.

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F3SS

With the abundance of information online and the wealth of opportunities to make really good money without a degree I really feel this picture. If my kids want to go to college that's great but I'll never push it on them.

 

IMG_27062019_110504_(650_x_724_pixel).jpg

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RavenHawk

I think the most exciting part of Night One was the active mike faux pas.  I think Delaney and Booker made some good points (which I’ve already forgotten) but it was over shadowed by how boring it was.  The substance of the night seemed to be climate change and Socialism.  It was interesting that they kept on saying what this nation needs is exactly what Trump is providing.  They don’t realize how much they are helping Trump’s re-election.

 

Warren tried being dramatic about the fact that 7 children die every day from gun violence, but this number includes accidental discharge and suicide.  She doesn’t give her sources.  I have no reason to believe that she is faking the numbers but she is being very dishonest.  She is isolating the numbers as if they are the only ones that count.  The leading cause of death of children is accidents, of which guns where a small percentage of that.  Why only focus on gun deaths when there are a litany of other sources of accidental causes of death?  The next leading cause is cancer.  Why doesn’t she work on finding the cure for cancer?  Accidental firearm deaths are not a public health concern.  It’s a matter of stupidity.  Cancer is a public health concern.

 

I’m trying to find the image but I can’t find it, but anyway, outside of the debates there was a sign with “No Socialism” and something else in Spanish.  I didn’t see it long enough.  My guess is that it was put up by Cuban exiles.  I don’t recall if it was this thread or another recent one (I’m sure it has appeared many times on the forum anyway), but someone had suggested that those here that are so pro Socialism, that you should go talk to someone that came from a Socialist state?  Then I am reminded of the following testimony from a true American hero.  He is right, those on stage last night do not know what Socialism really is.

 

 

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, F3SS said:

With the abundance of information online and the wealth of opportunities to make really good money without a degree I really feel this picture. If my kids want to go to college that's great but I'll never push it on them.

 

IMG_27062019_110504_(650_x_724_pixel).jpg

People have been hoodwinked into believing that you need to go to college.  The simple fact is that not everyone (most) should.  Not going to college doesn’t mean one is not intelligent.  Now that the government subsidizes tuition, the costs are going up as more and more drop out.  Attending college is definitely overrated.  People need to plan on going to community college or a vocational school first.  Then, if you do well there, then advance to college.  If not, then one has probably found what interests them already.  I think high school grads should go into a two-year volunteer service to this nation.  Call it the selective service or peace corps, whatever, but in this two years, one takes preliminary college courses and gets practical experience with various kinds of heavy equipment to paramedic care.  react to natural disasters or work as a border guard.  They would rotate every 3 months or so.  This would produce about 3 million per year.  And if one decides to go on to college for advance degrees, they will be more mature.  Which means more graduating and fewer dropouts.

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Tatetopa
5 hours ago, F3SS said:

Schools been expensive for quite a while but when the feds took over in 2010 the costs have gone through the roof so I don't know how to lower costs. That sucks but it's beyond me. I've been thinking lately that the public school system could do a better job of preparing kids for what's ahead. It seems like we were taught how to absorb information which is fine but there's a lot of information they never spoke about. They always said college was important but they never taught us how loans and interest work NTM added costs such as books and living. 

I am beginning to wonder if schools are any more than a business with a captive customer base and a guaranteed income.  Probably too cynical but, even at college level it seems like the goal is to collect fees and process people with no regard to how prepared the students will be when they graduate. 

Freedom is a great thing and every 18 year old should experience the freedom of choosing what they want to do with their lives.  Advice from someone experienced who is also interested in the student's future is also invaluable.  I don't see or hear of much of that at any level. 

At least there should be some freshman required courses along with English and History dealing with money, credit, how to balance accounts, budget, and college majors that can provide a living wage.

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F3SS
8 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I am beginning to wonder if schools are any more than a business with a captive customer base and a guaranteed income.  Probably too cynical but, even at college level it seems like the goal is to collect fees and process people with no regard to how prepared the students will be when they graduate. 

Freedom is a great thing and every 18 year old should experience the freedom of choosing what they want to do with their lives.  Advice from someone experienced who is also interested in the student's future is also invaluable.  I don't see or hear of much of that at any level. 

At least there should be some freshman required courses along with English and History dealing with money, credit, how to balance accounts, budget, and college majors that can provide a living wage.

That's exactly how I felt once I was done. I was so mad at my school, a tech school. They prided (sold) themselves on job placement but the truth was that they didn't care where you went so long as it was a job to credit themselves with. Seriously, they set me up an interview at a Walmart photography studio.

This his true but still most of us have no idea what they want to do at 18 and taking advice at that age is a rare thing.

I agree with the rest. I also can't blame the schools for everything. Like I said, taking advice while young doesn't always happen. No matter what you're told life has a habit of teaching you it's lessons the hard way and unless you've been criminally conned I'm a firm believer that you have to take responsibility for your choices even if they were made naively.

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aztek
3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

 

 

 

 

yep it will definitely be much harder for them to sell it when millions of people living in USA now went thru it in their countries, Cuba, Venezuela, USSR, and every Warsaw pact  country, they wont fool them, they have seen it before and will recognize it, thanks god we have those people living here now, and they have a voice.

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Hammerclaw
7 hours ago, F3SS said:

Schools been expensive for quite a while but when the feds took over in 2010 the costs have gone through the roof so I don't know how to lower costs. That sucks but it's beyond me. I've been thinking lately that the public school system could do a better job of preparing kids for what's ahead. It seems like we were taught how to absorb information which is fine but there's a lot of information they never spoke about. They always said college was important but they never taught us how loans and interest work NTM added costs such as books and living. 

The average student loan debt is about the price of an entry level new car. How is that such a crushing debt? What the hell did these people major in, snap courses in new ways of making bayberry candles?

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F3SS
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The average student loan debt is about the price of an entry level new car. How is that such a crushing debt? What the hell did these people major in, snap courses in new ways of making bayberry candles?

My tech school in 2000 was 30k for 2 years and an associates degree. That was far more than the price of an entry level car back then.

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F3SS

People do major in useless degrees though. Bamboozled or not, they need to pay up.

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Hammerclaw
Just now, F3SS said:

My tech school in 2000 was 30k for 2 years and an associates degree. That was far more than the price of an entry level car back then.

So what? In the overall scheme of life, hardly a crushing debt. They'll endure and pay off far greater ones, willingly, if they plan on having any kind of life. Of course, if all they did with college is extend their adolescence four more years at someone else's expense and learned nothing useful, job-wise, that's their problem. Consider it a lesson in responsibility and experience paying by installment. 

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RavenHawk
7 minutes ago, F3SS said:

My tech school in 2000 was 30k for 2 years and an associates degree. That was far more than the price of an entry level car back then.

My wife went back to get a Speech language pathologist degree which requires a Masters.  We have over 100k in student loans.

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aztek
58 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The average student loan debt is about the price of an entry level new car. How is that such a crushing debt? What the hell did these people major in, snap courses in new ways of making bayberry candles?

when i went to school, many were picking liberal art as major,  wonder how many found jobs in their field, thou my school was 1600 a semester, i never took any loan, paid each semester in full. i never owed a penny for college 

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Hammerclaw
12 minutes ago, aztek said:

when i went to school, many were picking liberal art as major,  wonder how many found jobs in their field, thou my school was 1600 a semester, i never took any loan, paid each semester in full. i never owed a penny for college 

I met State scholastic qualifications for a subsidized college education. Do they understand that if college becomes free, not every tom, dick and harry will be able to get in, as they do, now? They're not going to give free education to a freshman class, fifty percent who flunk out as they do, now, at least not to Cal Tech, or MIT.

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F3SS
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

So what? In the overall scheme of life, hardly a crushing debt. They'll endure and pay off far greater ones, willingly, if they plan on having any kind of life. Of course, if all they did with college is extend their adolescence four more years at someone else's expense and learned nothing useful, job-wise, that's their problem. Consider it a lesson in responsibility and experience paying by installment. 

Says the guy who's education was subsidized. That was quite a chunk of change to spend my entire 20's paying back but I'm not arguing for anything to be free. I'm just saying school is dang expensive.  

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F3SS
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

My wife went back to get a Speech language pathologist degree which requires a Masters.  We have over 100k in student loans.

 

That's a lot of loans man! Good luck.

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Hammerclaw

College use to be a place where people were sent to intellectually excel. Now, much of the graduating BA class take jobs as Walmart managers or McDonald managers or schlepping cars for SPC. You don't need a higher education for that kind of work.

3 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Says the guy who's education was subsidized. That was quite a chunk of change to spend my entire 20's paying back but I'm not arguing for anything to be free. I'm just saying school is dang expensive.  

Yes it is and pretty much anything else worth having. My education wasn't free just subsidized. I worked at Burger King while attending.

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aztek
15 minutes ago, F3SS said:

That's a lot of loans man! Good luck.

it is, my wife went to a cuny school for her masters in computer science, she paid 4k a semester. some schools are a lot more expensive than others, but if all you need is a degree cuz it is required for work,  why pay more? as long as you have that MS, or MA,  what school gave you one is irrelavant

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F3SS

Very true aztek. I just wish I was putting that 300/month from 2002-2011 into Google, Amazon and Netflix. I could buy unexplained mysteries and a few politicians several times over right now. Hindsight is full of regrets though.

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Merc14

Trump tweets a debate meme 

 

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F3SS

I had that on my clip board ready to paste. Very funny. The TDS is strong in the comments. I found this one funny.

20190627_192557.jpg.9be44317d9dd63272dfe10505c0a9ad9.jpg

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