Michelle Posted June 30, 2019 #301 Share Posted June 30, 2019 This from the BBC no less... This month hospitals have reported huge pressures, with A&Es over-crowded, a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside unable to hand over their patients. It was a similar story last winter. The NHS, it seems, is always facing unrelenting pressure. But why is this when funding is rising? The sheer scale of the health service can take the breath away. Every 24 hours it sees one million patients, and with 1.7 million staff it's the fifth biggest employer in the world. So it should come as no surprise that this vast enterprise absorbs eye-watering amounts of money. cont... https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572110 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted June 30, 2019 #302 Share Posted June 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Merc14 said: You do realize that when asked the question "What would happen if all patients were on medicare?" the universal response is "We would be forced to close down immediately." Socialism has a zero percent success rate. Except for all the other countries in the world where it is working......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted June 30, 2019 #303 Share Posted June 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Michelle said: This from the BBC no less... This month hospitals have reported huge pressures, with A&Es over-crowded, a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside unable to hand over their patients. It was a similar story last winter. The NHS, it seems, is always facing unrelenting pressure. But why is this when funding is rising? The sheer scale of the health service can take the breath away. Every 24 hours it sees one million patients, and with 1.7 million staff it's the fifth biggest employer in the world. So it should come as no surprise that this vast enterprise absorbs eye-watering amounts of money. cont... https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572110 And for context as to why the NHS has gotten to this point.... successive governments who gave progressively less and less support to the NHS in order to privatise the whole shebang. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #304 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: Except for all the other countries in the world where it is working......... Name a few. Back on topic, Creepy Joe is about done, he'll be leaving the trail soon and Crazy Bernie isn't far behind, his Marxist USA with breadlines and no toilet paper doesn't look so good when the country doesn't have enough people to fill all the jobs, a far cry from Obama and Biden's America. Edited July 1, 2019 by Merc14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #305 Share Posted July 1, 2019 21 minutes ago, Merc14 said: Name a few. Sadly it would be pointless to do so. You've been conditioned too well to even perceive things that go against your world view. Wait a minute I have an idea..... The medical system in Israel is terrible! We should in no way do anything to emulate their system! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #306 Share Posted July 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Sadly it would be pointless to do so. You've been conditioned too well to even perceive things that go against your world view. Wait a minute I have an idea..... The medical system in Israel is terrible! We should in no way do anything to emulate their system! Standard leftist answer since you don't have any examples to present. Being a progressive is painful since you can never fight with facts, only BS and emotions. Sucks to be you grommie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #307 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Merc14 said: Standard leftist answer since you don't have any examples to present. Being a progressive is painful since you can never fight with facts, only BS and emotions. Sucks to be you grommie I guess my idea didn't work. I was hoping you would actually look and find out for yourself that Israel had socialized medicine. But I should have known. Literally every developed country has socialized medicine and yet you need me to provide you examples...... Sigh. Some people read to understand, some just read to reply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 1, 2019 #308 Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 6/27/2019 at 4:38 AM, DieChecker said: We could have cheap education, we just need to convince people making 150-250k a year to settle for 50k. Figure out why the Cost is so much and then cut into it. I heard an interesting explanation of why the cost of higher education has never been seriously challenged by Left-leaning Congress critters. The great majority of those educators play the role of indoctrination for the "cause". It's been a serious part of the strategy of the Progressives since the time of Dewey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted July 1, 2019 #309 Share Posted July 1, 2019 No man can control a woman's body but a huge group of selfish, rich and powerful ones are more than welcome to if they don't charge you for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #310 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: I guess my idea didn't work. I was hoping you would actually look and find out for yourself that Israel had socialized medicine. But I should have known. Literally every developed country has socialized medicine and yet you need me to provide you examples...... Sigh. Some people read to understand, some just read to reply. I've looked DA, show your proof boyo or shaddup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #311 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, Merc14 said: I've looked DA, show your proof boyo or shaddup Here's the deal. How can I talk to someone about an issue, if that person is ignorant of that issue? In this case the ignorant person is you. We've had entire threads about this very thing and discussed the various countries involved. I listed Israel. Michelle mentioned the NHS in a post right above you. (That would be England) Sir Wearer of Hats piped in. (Australia) We are never going to get anywhere if I have to go through a step by step list of countries and explanation for practically the whole world just because you are willfully being ignorant. I know you aren't that stupid. You are just wanting to cover your ears and pretend they don't exist. It's like trying to show proof to a flat earther. But here: https://www.thebalance.com/universal-health-care-4156211 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted July 1, 2019 #312 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Keep me out of this one dude, last time I discussed Aussie Healthcare on here, the phrases “death panels” and “waiting ten years for surgery” were used and I gave up as a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 1, 2019 #313 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Gromdor said: I guess my idea didn't work. I was hoping you would actually look and find out for yourself that Israel had socialized medicine. But I should have known. Literally every developed country has socialized medicine and yet you need me to provide you examples...... Sigh. Some people read to understand, some just read to reply. What I particularly love about ol' Merc is the eloquence of his deeply thought out replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Sam Posted July 1, 2019 #314 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: What I particularly love about ol' Merc is the eloquence of his deeply thought out replies. Socialized Medicare can't thrive in a socialized economy, it must feed off a capital economy. The socialized economy doesn't provide growth at all while Capital economy is designed around the growth of the citizens and economy. Socialized society has a high demand for money and heavily relies on taxes on its citizens, regardless if they want or not. Basically socialized anything requires to take from others to provide for others who are not willing or can't work hard for money. Edited July 1, 2019 by Uncle Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #315 Share Posted July 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: What I particularly love about ol' Merc is the eloquence of his deeply thought out replies. You expect a long detailed answer when grommy won't even name a country that is thriving under socialism? It was his declarative statement, not mine and he doesn't want to defend it so end of debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #316 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Merc14 said: You expect a long detailed answer when grommy won't even name a country that is thriving under socialism? It was his declarative statement, not mine and he doesn't want to defend it so end of debate. Actually you were the one to make the claim that socialized medicine doesn't work...... You should have been the one to provide proof. Now you are changing it to "Name a country that thrives under socialism" because you finally realized your mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #317 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Actually you were the one to make the claim that socialized medicine doesn't work...... You should have been the one to provide proof. Now you are changing it to "Name a country that thrives under socialism" because you finally realized your mistake. UK and Canada for two, massively long wait times, high cost and absorbs a huge portion of the budget Canada has all but given up defending itself to pay for medical care so we are, in effect, subsidizing them. I believe Vermont tried to provide universal health care and failed miserably as it nearly bankrupted them. WAIT TIMES IN COUNTRIES WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE ARE ATROCIOUS STATS: UNITED KINGDOM “The figures show that a total of 3.7 million people in the UK are now on the waiting list for non-urgent operations, up from 2.4 million in 2008.” -- The Telegraph “More than 360,000 of them have been on the waiting list for more than the minimum waiting time of 18 weeks, equivalent to one in 10.” -- The Telegraph “It means that 1 in 14 people living in England is now on an NHS waiting list.” The Telegraph CITIZENS IN SINGLE PAYER SYSTEMS ARE REGULARLY DENIED PROCEDURES OR WAIT MONTHS FOR THEM STATS: UNITED KINGDOM Data has shown that older patients are less likely to receive surgery for cancer treatment than younger ones. A 2011 report noted that only 39 percent of women over 80 in the UK receive surgery for breast cancer, compared to 90 percent of women under 50. -- Macmillan Cancer Support summary of study by the National Cancer Intelligence Network. More than 80 percent of older patients in the UK believe they suffer discrimination from the National Health Service. Daily Mail REAL-LIFE STORIES: UNITED KINGDOM In Glasgow, Scotland, the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital is so overburdened, one day this past January it had to turn away three women who were in labor. Glasgow Live In a hospital in Essex, doctors twice cancelled a potentially life-saving surgery for a patient with esophageal cancer because there were no free beds in the intensive-care unit. The Guardian In Wales, an 82-year-old woman who had fallen waited eight hours on the floor before an ambulance arrived. Her daughter sat beside her during the ordeal and described it as "one of the longest nights of my life." The Guardian STATS: CANADA “Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 20 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 18.3 weeks reported in 2015. 2016’s wait time—the longest ever recorded in this survey’s history—is 115% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.” -- Fraser Institute STATS: DENMARK The average wait time in 2014 was 83 days for cataract surgery, 55 days for a hip replacement, and 59 days for a knee replacement. -- OECD STATS: NORWAY The average wait time in 2013 was 128 days for cataract surgery, 154 days for a hip replacement, and 183 days for a knee replacement. -- OECD THE MYTH OF SCANDINAVIAN SUCCESS Sweden fell from 4th to 13th richest nation in the world between 1975 and the mid-1990s. Annual working hours in Denmark fell by 32 per cent between 1950 and 1990. Between 1950 and 2000, Sweden’s net job creation in the private sector was zero despite a population increase of two million. Wealth inequality in Sweden exceeded that of the UK, US and Canada in 2008. Source: “Scandinavian Unexceptionalism” by Nima Sanandaji, Institute of Economic Affairs, London 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #318 Share Posted July 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, Merc14 said: UK and Canada for two, massively long wait times, high cost and absorbs a huge portion of the budget Canada has all but given up defending itself to pay for medical care so we are, in effect, subsidizing them. I believe Vermont tried to provide universal health care and failed miserably as it nearly bankrupted them. WAIT TIMES IN COUNTRIES WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE ARE ATROCIOUS STATS: UNITED KINGDOM “The figures show that a total of 3.7 million people in the UK are now on the waiting list for non-urgent operations, up from 2.4 million in 2008.” -- The Telegraph “More than 360,000 of them have been on the waiting list for more than the minimum waiting time of 18 weeks, equivalent to one in 10.” -- The Telegraph “It means that 1 in 14 people living in England is now on an NHS waiting list.” The Telegraph CITIZENS IN SINGLE PAYER SYSTEMS ARE REGULARLY DENIED PROCEDURES OR WAIT MONTHS FOR THEM STATS: UNITED KINGDOM Data has shown that older patients are less likely to receive surgery for cancer treatment than younger ones. A 2011 report noted that only 39 percent of women over 80 in the UK receive surgery for breast cancer, compared to 90 percent of women under 50. -- Macmillan Cancer Support summary of study by the National Cancer Intelligence Network. More than 80 percent of older patients in the UK believe they suffer discrimination from the National Health Service. Daily Mail REAL-LIFE STORIES: UNITED KINGDOM In Glasgow, Scotland, the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital is so overburdened, one day this past January it had to turn away three women who were in labor. Glasgow Live In a hospital in Essex, doctors twice cancelled a potentially life-saving surgery for a patient with esophageal cancer because there were no free beds in the intensive-care unit. The Guardian In Wales, an 82-year-old woman who had fallen waited eight hours on the floor before an ambulance arrived. Her daughter sat beside her during the ordeal and described it as "one of the longest nights of my life." The Guardian STATS: CANADA “Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 20 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 18.3 weeks reported in 2015. 2016’s wait time—the longest ever recorded in this survey’s history—is 115% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.” -- Fraser Institute STATS: DENMARK The average wait time in 2014 was 83 days for cataract surgery, 55 days for a hip replacement, and 59 days for a knee replacement. -- OECD STATS: NORWAY The average wait time in 2013 was 128 days for cataract surgery, 154 days for a hip replacement, and 183 days for a knee replacement. -- OECD THE MYTH OF SCANDINAVIAN SUCCESS Sweden fell from 4th to 13th richest nation in the world between 1975 and the mid-1990s. Annual working hours in Denmark fell by 32 per cent between 1950 and 1990. Between 1950 and 2000, Sweden’s net job creation in the private sector was zero despite a population increase of two million. Wealth inequality in Sweden exceeded that of the UK, US and Canada in 2008. Source: “Scandinavian Unexceptionalism” by Nima Sanandaji, Institute of Economic Affairs, London 2015. You forgot to post data on how those countries compare to the US system. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #319 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Gromdor said: You forgot to post data on how those countries compare to the US system. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system Guess you didn't read my post and that ranking doesn't seem to show the criteria used or the questions asked.so not sure why it was posted. Regardless, waiting 20 weeks to see a doctor doesn't speak well of a medical system and thye very thought of allowing the democrats to run my healthcare is terrifying especially knowing what Obama and his crew did during the last election. Edited July 1, 2019 by Merc14 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 1, 2019 #320 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Merc14 said: Guess you didn't read my post and that ranking doesn't seem to show the criteria used or the questions asked.so not sure why it was posted. Honestly your post show what I would view as good things in a socialized medicine program. It should be a baseline product. Long waits and the ills you listed would encourage people to still buy private insurance. All that matters is that everyone is covered at a societally affordable rate. They aren't going to die waiting a few months for a hip replacement. You will die if you have no insurance and can't get insulin. I know for a fact that countries like England offer private insurance just like here in the states. They have both systems. Most just choose to purchase the private insurance but would rather change the public system to improve it (speed up wait times). You are just listing the criticisms people have about something they want to improve not switch away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted July 1, 2019 #321 Share Posted July 1, 2019 That's a racket. Raise my taxes and I can get my basic needs met and beyond basic needs when it's my turn in a few months although the longer my hip is jacked the less I can work if at all. Or I can buy private insurance on top of my raised taxes and get better and quicker treatment. Doesn't sound very fair to the poor and regular folks who have to wait longer. That's what everyone is always yelling at us about, the poor being at a disadvantage. Insurance companies and hospitals are certainly a racket but a government takeover is completely unacceptable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 1, 2019 #322 Share Posted July 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Honestly your post show what I would view as good things in a socialized medicine program. It should be a baseline product. Long waits and the ills you listed would encourage people to still buy private insurance. All that matters is that everyone is covered at a societally affordable rate. They aren't going to die waiting a few months for a hip replacement. You will die if you have no insurance and can't get insulin. I know for a fact that countries like England offer private insurance just like here in the states. They have both systems. Most just choose to purchase the private insurance but would rather change the public system to improve it (speed up wait times). You are just listing the criticisms people have about something they want to improve not switch away from. It won't be affordable, I guarantee that and just like the student loan program takeover the results will be disastrous. Why you think government can run anything well is beyond me as the track record shows just the opposite and it would soon be weaponized by your party to punicsh political enemies. (see the last election, see the IRS) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 2, 2019 #323 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Too bad the Democratic nominee won't be this guy. Listen to the whole thing if you have the attention span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katniss Posted July 2, 2019 #324 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, OverSword said: Too bad the Democratic nominee won't be this guy. Listen to the whole thing if you have the attention span. He probably will not, because universal income has become a curse word among die hard working independents, even if it's a earned dividend income like he talks about from tech companies. But unfortunately he's right about automation, which is becoming much more of a reality when you see things like this, Starsky Robotics tests first unmanned autonomous truck on public highway in Florida Truckers are very upset over this event and hope it all fails in catastrophe in the future. The way he explains their mood of disbelief at first, and then a year later on, eventual anger about it, I can understand why. They suddenly realize their livelihood is being threatened. Edited July 2, 2019 by Katniss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 2, 2019 #325 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Katniss said: He probably will not, because universal income has become a curse word among die hard working independents, even if it's a earned dividend income like he talks about from tech companies. But unfortunately he's right about automation, which is becoming much more of a reality when you see things like this, Starsky Robotics tests first unmanned autonomous truck on public highway in Florida Truckers are very upset over this event and hope it all fails in catastrophe in the future. The way he explains their mood of disbelief at first, and then a year later on, eventual anger about it, I can understand why. They suddenly realize their livelihood is being threatened. It can't be stopped any more that Jet Airliners, locomotives, cars or any of the other technological advancements that eventually had the result of making our lives easier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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