Who will the Democratic nominee be?

[+OverSword]

10 minutes ago, and then said:

I actually heard some Dems saying we needed to "fight Russia" there (Ukraine) so we didn't have to fight them HERE.  They have lost their damned minds and they have so little respect for voters that they expect them to believe any of the diarrhea that comes from their mouths just because they hear it in the media.

Not so long ago their attitude was the 80’s wants it’s foreign policy back

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Trump asked Zelensky to look into corruption during the very first conversation they had...in other words, his first opportunity.

Trying to coordinate something like that based upon when Biden may or may not announce candidacy would be profoundly foolish...and unnecessarily political.

Plenty of armchair quarterbacks are out there trying to critique Trump's timing down to the fraction of a second, but, for the trees, they've lost sight of the forest.

Trump really doesn't (nor should he) care about what the Democrats are "touching" at any point in time...they've shown they're going to do that no matter what.  And if you think he is in any danger at all of being thrown out of office, you've been persuaded by Fake News.

Lie to yourself. He’s a genius. It was a perfect thing to do.

[ian hacktorp]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Lie to yourself. He’s a genius. It was a perfect thing to do.

Lol...I'm certainly not going to lie to YOU...

...any assertion that Biden was able to inoculate himself from being investigated for overt, widespread corruption simply because he managed to declare his candidacy before Trump talked to Zelensky is sadly misinformed.  If not downright idiotic.

[+OverSword]

39 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Lol...I'm certainly not going to lie to YOU...

...any assertion that Biden was able to inoculate himself from being investigated for overt, widespread corruption simply because he managed to declare his candidacy before Trump talked to Zelensky is sadly misinformed.  If not downright idiotic.

That’s fine as I know good and well that Biden used his position and political clout to immorally enrich his son. But this has every appearance of trump using his position as president to undermine an opponent and that is a completely separate issue. It had been four years since the Biden Ukrainian incident and trump should have waited until he was re-elected before moving on this. 

[+joc]

48 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That’s fine as I know good and well that Biden used his position and political clout to immorally enrich his son. But this has every appearance of trump using his position as president to undermine an opponent and that is a completely separate issue. It had been four years since the Biden Ukrainian incident and trump should have waited until he was re-elected before moving on this. 

The Ukrainian government was as  corrupt as Biden. They had an election in 2019. He brought it up to the new president. A man he thought he could work with.

Edited January 26, 2020 by joc

[ian hacktorp]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

It had been four years since the Biden Ukrainian incident and trump should have waited until he was re-elected before moving on this.

No, it hadn't been 4 years.  Everything corrupt in Ukraine remained in place until after their elections in 2019.

And why in god's name should Trump have waited until 2021 when he knew of what went on there with the Bidens and many others (incl CF)?  Seems like keeping it all under wraps when Biden's corruption would legally render him ineligible to run is a form of election interference in and of itself, wouldn't you agree?

If we're going to keep complaining about 'appearances' in these very difficult and soul-searching times, we won't get anywhere.

What's next...are we going to excoriate Trump some more because he may have bruised (corrupt) Maria Yovanovich's tender feelings by firing her?  gmab

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

No, it hadn't been 4 years.  Everything corrupt in Ukraine remained in place until after their elections in 2019.

And why in god's name should Trump have waited until 2021 when he knew of what went on there with the Bidens and many others (incl CF)?  Seems like keeping it all under wraps when Biden's corruption would legally render him ineligible to run is a form of election interference in and of itself, wouldn't you agree?

If we're going to keep complaining about 'appearances' in these very difficult and soul-searching times, we won't get anywhere.

What's next...are we going to excoriate Trump some more because he may have bruised (corrupt) Maria Yovanovich's tender feelings by firing her?  gmab

Yes it had been four years and maybe closer to five. This happened when Biden was still vp 

why should he have waited? He’s being impeached.

appearance and ethics and good judgment are important and trump showed none.

Knowing these crazy democrats probably yes.

[ian hacktorp]

19 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yes it had been four years and maybe closer to five. This happened when Biden was still vp 

why should he have waited? He’s being impeached.

appearance and ethics and good judgment are important and trump showed none.

Knowing these crazy democrats probably yes.

The dirty money didn't stop flowing five years ago the moment Biden shoved his foot in his mouth on camera.  The crime wasn't that he admitted it, after all.  Why would you think that?

Also, Trump could be "impeached" and "re-impeached" by the House from now until forever.  Should Biden get permanent immunity simply because he and his party have control over "impeachment"...however frivolous?

I bet you have lots of Democrat friends in Seattle who firmly believe that our government system of "checks and balances" literally means Trump is bound by the Constitution to seek and gain the permission of the Democrats before he can do anything related to running the country.  I know I do.

You may have to begin gently letting them know that this is most definitely not the case.

[Michelle]

55 minutes ago, OverSword said:

This happened when Biden was still vp 

If he abused his power as VP shouldn't it be exposed before he is allowed to run for president?

[Farmer77]

Buttigieg set to appear at Fox News town hall, with days to go until pivotal Iowa voting

Quote

Presidential contender Pete Buttigieg is set to take the stage at a Fox News Town Hall with Chris Wallace in Des Moines, Iowa, at 7:00 p.m. ET Sunday, with just days to go until the do-or-die, first-in-the-nation caucuses are held there on Feb. 3.

It will be the Democrat’s second appearance at a Fox News Town Hall, after he took on President Trump and pitched a series of tax hikes at a New Hampshire event last May. The stakes are higher this time around, as Buttigieg's rising poll numbers in Iowa -- and warning signs in future primary states -- have created both high expectations and little room for error.

 

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Buttigieg set to appear at Fox News town hall, with days to go until pivotal Iowa voting

 

Iowa is anyone's to win at this point.

New Hampshire seems to be firmly in Sanders yard, though he won it last time in 2016 so time will tell it's effect on the other primary states.

 

[Farmer77]

4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Iowa is anyone's to win at this point.

New Hampshire seems to be firmly in Sanders yard, though he won it last time in 2016 so time will tell it's effect on the other primary states.

 

yeah its gonna take a shock like Bernie losing there or Pete winning in the south for this thing to shake out I think. 

[Tatetopa]

On 1/25/2020 at 1:40 PM, hacktorp said:

t makes much more sense for Trump to let the DOJ investigate all of it...and patiently await the results.

Rushing in to investigate "as a private individual" for a little near-term political boost seems like a pretty dumb idea.  Who would be so tragically short-sighted?

Do we need three guesses?

[Farmer77]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Buttigieg set to appear at Fox News town hall, with days to go until pivotal Iowa voting

 

I think that was a good showing by Pete. I also just discovered that as a registered independent  in AZ I can vote in the party primaries if I choose and do think that im going to vote for him.

[+OverSword]

4 hours ago, Michelle said:

If he abused his power as VP shouldn't it be exposed before he is allowed to run for president?

Yes. Unfortunately he already was. Why wasn’t the state department or the justice department running just such an investigation without the president being involved? If you can’t understand why this has caused trouble it’s because you won’t.

Perhaps if some of you were required to take a few hours of classes on ethical behavior every year in order to maintain your insurance license you would get it.  He’s guilty. The only thing to really determine is if it reached a level of unethical behavior to get him kicked out of office.

Edited January 27, 2020 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

6 hours ago, joc said:

The Ukrainian government was as  corrupt as Biden. They had an election in 2019. He brought it up to the new president. A man he thought he could work with.

Why hadn’t they had a domestic investigation going for the last three years then?

See, if they had started an investigation before biden declared this wouldn’t be an issue. But since they didn’t touch this subject until after he declared it’s a massive issue and a clear abuse of power.

Edited January 27, 2020 by OverSword

[ian hacktorp]

4 hours ago, Michelle said:

If he abused his power as VP shouldn't it be exposed before he is allowed to run for president?

Yes, but only if it can be done without hurting anyone's feelings.  Apparently.

[ian hacktorp]

29 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Do we need three guesses?

Sure, but House Dems are off the table, remember.

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

Yes, but only if it can be done without hurting anyone's feelings.  Apparently.

You’re as emotional about it as the dems. Arguing against their emotions without having points of logic is emotional. Perfect. 

[ian hacktorp]

14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Why hadn’t they had a domestic investigation going for the last three years then?

Because it was shut down by Biden.

I know, it's getting complicated.

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Because it was shut down by Biden.

I know, it's getting complicated.

Apparently it is.

Biden was a private citizen since leaving office and had no ability to shut down a trump investigation. The question is why didn’t trump call for an investigation before biden declared for the presidency 

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, hacktorp said:

What's next...are we going to excoriate Trump some more because he may have bruised (corrupt) Maria Yovanovich's tender feelings by firing her?  gmab

No it is not about an ambassador's feelings.  You should know better.  Ambassadors serve at the whim of the President.  He could have fired her because he thought she was old and ugly and that would have been his right.  Foolish maybe, but well within the rights of the president. It looks like he may have fired her because she was getting in the way.

Trump may be excoriated for either wittingly or unwittingly getting sucked into Rudy's schemes for another client.  Lev Parnas is Rudy's buddy.  They had some things going on in Ukraine.  Rudy thought he could do a deal for Lev and Igor on one hand and help out Trump on the other.  Marvelous synergy. but Maria was in the way.   The Don figured out very quickly how much leverage he had.  "How long would Ukraine last in a war with Russia? asks Donald "   :Not long without our aid says Lev." Unfortunately old Lev taped some of his conversations with Trump.  He gets rid of Maria for Lev and Rudy and they find the dirt on Biden.  If there was an example of quid pro quo, that was it right there.

Now Lev is caught, charged and singing.   Rudy is feeling the heat and Trump has already said, "Rudy has other clients."  That might mean no pardon, no cover from the President.   So far the president has his credible deniability, no fingerprints on the weapon.  If that means goodbye Rudy, it may come to that. Then does Rudy save himself or go down silently  like a true henchman?

Meanwhile Bolton is grinding his own ax with a book deal.   Leaks say Trump held up the aid to force an announcement on Biden.  Trump and Pompeo can deny it, but more stuff may come out.  Considering all of the Cabinet level people that have departed in frustration and anger, there might be more book deals in the offing.

It won't affect the impeachment, but it won't win many independent voters to Trump's cause.   All of a sudden that makes the lackluster Democrats look a little better.   "At least he or she is not Trump,"  will turn out a few otherwise ambivalent voters.

[ian hacktorp]

8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Apparently it is.

Biden was a private citizen since leaving office and had no ability to shut down a trump investigation. The question is why didn’t trump call for an investigation before biden declared for the presidency 

Sorry.  I thought you asked why Ukraine ("they") hadn't run a domestic investigation.

The question you actually asked is even sillier.  First, the entire Biden thing is really a small part of the larger effort to take down globalist criminality.  Trump needed to get his DOJ and courts in order, which takes time.  Second, you really don't know the precise moment when investigation into the Bidens actually started in this country...and it may well have been before Biden declared.  It really doesn't matter either way...and looking for ticky-tack fouls to somehow invalidate investigating the Bidens seems like a waste of time.  They are going down...along with a bunch of others.

Trump didn't ask permission from the Dems to investigate Biden either...I guess that's a problem too, huh?

[+joc]

52 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Why hadn’t they had a domestic investigation going for the last three years then?

See, if they had started an investigation before biden declared this wouldn’t be an issue. But since they didn’t touch this subject until after he declared it’s a massive issue and a clear abuse of power.

The facts OverSword...the facts.  It doesn't matter if there was any declaration of Biden as a candidate or not.  It's on tape he is guilty of a Quid Pro Quo with the Ukrainian Government.  And that happened while he was a sitting vice president.  Trump broke no laws.  Trump didn't commit a crime.  Trump didn't Quid Pro Quo the Ukrainian Government....Biden did.  

And there is a much better case to be made for Biden's immediate impeachment if he ever did become President...which he won't because he is a bumbling fool just playing the game till he can retire in good graces set for life.

It's a hack job on Trump and has been since day one and you know that.  There was no abuse of power except by that of Biden.  

[ian hacktorp]

16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

No it is not about an ambassador's feelings.  You should know better.  Ambassadors serve at the whim of the President.  He could have fired her because he thought she was old and ugly and that would have been his right.  Foolish maybe, but well within the rights of the president. It looks like he may have fired her because she was getting in the way.

Trump may be excoriated for either wittingly or unwittingly getting sucked into Rudy's schemes for another client.  Lev Parnas is Rudy's buddy.  They had some things going on in Ukraine.  Rudy thought he could do a deal for Lev and Igor on one hand and help out Trump on the other.  Marvelous synergy. but Maria was in the way.   The Don figured out very quickly how much leverage he had.  "How long would Ukraine last in a war with Russia? asks Donald "   :Not long without our aid says Lev." Unfortunately old Lev taped some of his conversations with Trump.  He gets rid of Maria for Lev and Rudy and they find the dirt on Biden.  If there was an example of quid pro quo, that was it right there.

Now Lev is caught, charged and singing.   Rudy is feeling the heat and Trump has already said, "Rudy has other clients."  That might mean no pardon, no cover from the President.   So far the president has his credible deniability, no fingerprints on the weapon.  If that means goodbye Rudy, it may come to that. Then does Rudy save himself or go down silently  like a true henchman?

Meanwhile Bolton is grinding his own ax with a book deal.   Leaks say Trump held up the aid to force an announcement on Biden.  Trump and Pompeo can deny it, but more stuff may come out.  Considering all of the Cabinet level people that have departed in frustration and anger, there might be more book deals in the offing.

It won't affect the impeachment, but it won't win many independent voters to Trump's cause.   All of a sudden that makes the lackluster Democrats look a little better.   "At least he or she is not Trump,"  will turn out a few otherwise ambivalent voters.

Lev Parnas is a nothing more than a poor man's Michael Cohen.  And we all know how far THAT went in taking down Trump (like we were promised).

Next.