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quiXilver

When does thought transition to belief?

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Sherapy
Just now, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

Well, Walker didn't want to invest in my cloning lab so he likely thinks I'm running the Gatsby on him.:lol:

I don't have anything to gain by deception and he really doesn't have anything that I want other than productive discussion.

jmccr8

Great job on resizing, lol.

I think I will marry you next life. :P

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jmccr8
40 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

how do i KNOW tha t wolf or the gallery are telling the truth 'Y0u" might have put them up to it? 

Hi Walker

I will let Wilf know that he has now been granted Wolf status, why would I or them concoct such a plan to deceive you especially over something like whether I built their gallery for them, what is the payoff?

44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Sorry don' t mean to be difficult (well actually i do ) :)

See we are almost like twins.:lol:

44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I do believe you BUT that is a matter of belief not knowledge 

Which is the purpose of the links, so that you can know if you choose to.

46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

This is the same reason i cant prove anything from my past to anyone else online. I could give you witnesses but you wouldn't know if THEY were telling the truth either. 

I didn't make an extraordinary claim quite mundane to be honest. Many of the things you relate I do accept because those things are commonly accepted in the real world although when you make certain claims people will expect validation and saying well I can't prove that I have a wife and 3 dogs so how can I prove that I have an alien. Your wife and dogs are knowns that can if one chooses to give evidence of whereas your alien is an unknown so yes I would expect that you would expect that you may have problems giving evidence especially if it or you do not want it bad enough to submit to testing which at this time is as harmless as a swab or some hair.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
14 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Great job on resizing, lol.

I think I will marry you next life. :P

:wub:

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Ha ha ha ha he argued the same thing on the picture I posted of my dog Zenny. 
 

 

1DF66BCD-216F-4D31-B7E9-0757D3C37766.jpeg

Well it is true, and  yet it seems hard to get through to people.

That first just because they know something is true, and second because it is quite believable, that they cannot PROVE it to me, unless i accept their proofs in faith .

This is the same reason I cant prove anything to any one else online, unless they are prepared to accept any evidences, such as witnesses i might produce, as being true    i wouldn't even attempt to prove anything to anyone online because no proofs are transferable unless the recipient believes in them. 

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I will let Wilf know that he has now been granted Wolf status, why would I or them concoct such a plan to deceive you especially over something like whether I built their gallery for them, what is the payoff?

See we are almost like twins.:lol:

Which is the purpose of the links, so that you can know if you choose to.

I didn't make an extraordinary claim quite mundane to be honest. Many of the things you relate I do accept because those things are commonly accepted in the real world although when you make certain claims people will expect validation and saying well I can't prove that I have a wife and 3 dogs so how can I prove that I have an alien. Your wife and dogs are knowns that can if one chooses to give evidence of whereas your alien is an unknown so yes I would expect that you would expect that you may have problems giving evidence especially if it or you do not want it bad enough to submit to testing which at this time is as harmless as a swab or some hair.

jmccr8

Why would;d i lie about my experiences?

And that is why i talk about my experiences So others can know if they choose to. 

My point is that we should not accept mundane claims without exactly the same standards of proof as we require for  non- mundane ones (and the reverse as well)

Every claim requires the same level of proof to prove it to be true  Just because something is believable doesn't mean it is any more true than something we find hard to believe (and vice versa) 

 No women and dogs are known but you don't know that I have any of them .

And gods, angels, and ghosts etc are known to humans all over the world They are almost as common as dogs, if not as common as women :) 

 

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quiXilver

these resonated based on recent conversation...

 

Quote

He who dreams ... does not know he is dreaming... . Only when he awakens does he know he has dreamt. But there is also the great awakening (ta-chiao), and then we see that [everything] here is nothing but a great dream. Of course, the fools believe that they are already awake-what foolishness! Confucius and you, both of you, are dreams; and I, who tell you this, am also a dream.

Zhuangzi

Quote

“Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.”
― Zhuangzi, The Butterfly as Companion: Meditations on the First Three Chapters of the Chuang-Tzu

 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The JMCCR8 taped to the pic worked for me and I know your real first name from past pm’s. If you read the note on the back it has your real name. I also know what you look like. :P

Why would you go to all that trouble to lie, including contacting the company to lie for you in the event MW inquires. Ha ha ha ha ha 

That level of paranoia when someone tries to evidence a claim seems bizarre to me.

Walls just wants his claims of a talking light to be taken on faith, and he wants us to shake him down, interrogate him if he claims to have eaten an apple for breakfast, how dare you believe he could have eaten an apple but not the a light bulb is really an alien god who is an addiction specialist with genie powers. ;)

 

Yet you display the same level of distrust at all my claims :) 

Why should i lie about what i eat?

Why should i lie about what i meet?

Why should you not either accept my word for both, OR reject it for both, given I can not prove either claim? 

Umm!!! How did a light bulb get into your argument? 

We all have to take the claims of others online on faith and choose belief or disbelief(or suspension of both) No one can PROVE a claim online, to a person who chooses not to believe it 

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

That's not particularly relevant to Visualisation in Sports Psychology.

Well The point might be that if you employ visualisation, employ it to visualise kicking directly at the keeper

Visualisation is the second most effective  learning  methodology after physical practice :) 

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jmccr8
16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Why would;d i lie about my experiences?

Hi Walker

I don't know? I wasn't calling you a liar, I have been questioning perception and interpretation.

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

And that is why i talk about my experiences So others can know if they choose to. 

And that is fine but you have chosen this specific part of the forum to talk about them which means that you knew you would be asked the kinds of things that you are asked for as well and are prepared to properly demonstrate your position understanding the parameters of this sub-forum as it pertains to skepticism. No one says you can't talk about it we are simply asking you to show evidence as defined in science that there is an inking of support for your claims.

26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

My point is that we should not accept mundane claims without exactly the same standards of proof as we require for  non- mundane ones (and the reverse as well)

Actually what I gave you is more than sufficient to support what  I said as the contact info was given and the onus is on you to contact them for yourself if you have doubts. Yes I know you created a conspiracy theory right out the gate but if you need more read about the gallery in the links I gave you and the founding owner whom I also know and her husband a Queens Bench Magistrate as they were clients as well and am sure that they will also give supporting testimony of my involvement in the build. Unless you think that I have politicians and the justice system in my pocket.:lol:

There are hundreds of millions of people that work in the construction industry so me being one of them is not all that unbelievable nor is it that I might happen to have a skill set that allows me to have the credibility to do these types of projects. I said that I could show you I never said I want you to believe so I made and exercise out of this I gave Sherapy and Liquid Gardens the same material that I gave you. Sherapy and I have had some pms and she has seen some of my work and pics of my family,  Liquid Gardens and I have never had any contact outside of the threads and has never seen a picture of me unless he saw the one that I posted in response to you 2 yrs ago in a thread that got closed or my work so I would decided that because he has inter-acted in threads with me and knew what I have said as well my intent but still objective as an observer.

There is a difference in stating that I built this or that is not the same as I talk to aliens and fly the universe so no I don't think it is exactly the same. I don't question if you have a wife and dogs,yes I think you exaggerate some skill levels but hey your job application didn't hit my desk so I just hit the delete button on any of that as far as discussions go because I don't want to get bogged down with non-fact issues that are not relevant to what I am asking about.

53 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No women and dogs are known but you don't know that I have any of them .

Your married, you walk like a duck, you talk like a duck you're a duck. You do not have to prove you have a wife or dogs, alien yes.

57 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

And gods, angels, and ghosts etc are known to humans all over the world They are almost as common as dogs, if not as common as women :) 

Great you have established women and dogs exist now show/demonstrate/give documentation within the same confines and contexts that science has that shows that these other entities exist. Undocumented cases and references are of no value in the exchange that I am trying to engage you in.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
On 10/14/2019 at 2:07 PM, Sherapy said:


You can remember dreams if you wake up during the REM stage and write them down or talk about them. The brain functions differently depending on if it is conscious or unconscious. The senses are not engaged in the same way during sleep as during the waking state, meaning the senses are not engaged with the environment In the same way as when you have an experience.
Meditation is the highest stage of consciousness one can reach and if you did reach it you wouldn’t know it. My doc said it is very hard to do this and if anyone claims they are “enlightened” it is nonsense. 

Neuroscience is not for layman with out a basic understanding of the field,, unfortunately, she was explaining to me how the brain hallucinates why some are nightmares and some are vivid and amazing like being in heaven, but it was beyond me, it sounded like blah blah blah something to do with certain brain receptions.

 

I can remember dreams from  any part of my sleep pattern This is true for most peole although it appears to be a bit easier/more common in rem,  and studies show that most remembered dreams occur in rem.

Your senses are fully engages with the DREAM environment but less engaged with the physical environment  yet still partially engaged eg heat cold or water applied to a dreamer will affect or seep into their dreams You can dream, and walk about and do things as if you were awake, simultaneously, if you use  the differnt parts of your brain simultaneously   

Your doc is wrong 

Mediation may be a higher state of consciousness than ordinary  but there are  even higher states. I dont think she has read up on them much  Do some research into the different stages of consciousness

Meditation is a technique used to achieve certain mental states but it is not necessary.

You can jump straight into any mental state without meditation if you  understand how to, and practice it enough.  Ive never meditated in my life and nor have i ever completely  stilled my mind as that seems impossible unless you are dead .

But i have entered into deep "communion"  with different parts of my brain while learning to understand and utilise them

Yep the nature of thought or cognitive construction is fascinating.

ive been studying it  formally  since i first was introduced to it a t uni as part of  psychology and  cognitive studies.

However i was playing around with it consciously from about the age of 3 or 4 in an attempt to understand control and discipline my mind  and thus my behaviours.   

Once you can access and control your subconscious section of your consciousness and become lucid while dreaming, you can shape any dream and become anything /do anything, you can imagine 

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-psychology/chapter/introduction-to-consciousness/

https://tmhome.com/books-videos/7-states-of-consciousness-video-interview/

This outlines a more spiritual /philosophical approach to consciousness. I was introduced (through experiencing them)  to all 7 levels of consciousness through my first contact with the cosmic consciousness, and  ongoing  connection to it, from  the age of 13/ 14 (after a decade of studying and learning about my own consciousness every night. 

Ps One full credited course at uni for psychology was quite similar in principle, but known as transactional analysis 

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jmccr8
17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Well The point might be that if you employ visualisation, employ it to visualise kicking directly at the keeper

Visualisation is the second most effective  learning  methodology after physical practice :) 

Hi Walker

Just curious as you don't visualize so how do you do it?:huh:

jmccr8

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Just curious as you don't visualize so how do you do it?:huh:

jmccr8

:o

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Golden Duck
10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Well The point might be that if you employ visualisation, employ it to visualise kicking directly at the keeper

Visualisation is the second most effective  learning  methodology after physical practice :) 

I'm sure your last sentence is the same message in the link provided by @XenoFish.

Apparently Germany have done the most study into a penalties and a penalty shootouts.  Statistically speaking you should be be kicking into the top third of the goal - no keeper was found to have stopped a penalty aimed there; but, you don't want to emulate Baggio from '94.  The advice that it is relevant to my reply is to never say "don't miss".

I only chose soccer as an example that would be understood worldwide.  Johnny Wilkinson's eccentricities, I guess, are a tell for his visualisation process; but, how many people are familiar with him.  That's why I also threw in an example often used in driver education.

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jmccr8
15 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I can remember dreams from  any part of my sleep pattern This is true for most peole although it appears to be a bit easier/more common in rem,  and studies show that most remembered dreams occur in rem.

Hi Walker

See this is why things get confusing. How do you explain these two statements?

Walker Quote..."if i have more sleep than i need then i sleep lightly and  i remember all my dreams, but if i sleep deeply. due to tiredness. it is often hard to recall all my dreams"

jmccr8 

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Mr Walker
11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I don't know? I wasn't calling you a liar, I have been questioning perception and interpretation.

And that is fine but you have chosen this specific part of the forum to talk about them which means that you knew you would be asked the kinds of things that you are asked for as well and are prepared to properly demonstrate your position understanding the parameters of this sub-forum as it pertains to skepticism. No one says you can't talk about it we are simply asking you to show evidence as defined in science that there is an inking of support for your claims.

Actually what I gave you is more than sufficient to support what  I said as the contact info was given and the onus is on you to contact them for yourself if you have doubts. Yes I know you created a conspiracy theory right out the gate but if you need more read about the gallery in the links I gave you and the founding owner whom I also know and her husband a Queens Bench Magistrate as they were clients as well and am sure that they will also give supporting testimony of my involvement in the build. Unless you think that I have politicians and the justice system in my pocket.:lol:

There are hundreds of millions of people that work in the construction industry so me being one of them is not all that unbelievable nor is it that I might happen to have a skill set that allows me to have the credibility to do these types of projects. I said that I could show you I never said I want you to believe so I made and exercise out of this I gave Sherapy and Liquid Gardens the same material that I gave you. Sherapy and I have had some pms and she has seen some of my work and pics of my family,  Liquid Gardens and I have never had any contact outside of the threads and has never seen a picture of me unless he saw the one that I posted in response to you 2 yrs ago in a thread that got closed or my work so I would decided that because he has inter-acted in threads with me and knew what I have said as well my intent but still objective as an observer.

There is a difference in stating that I built this or that is not the same as I talk to aliens and fly the universe so no I don't think it is exactly the same. I don't question if you have a wife and dogs,yes I think you exaggerate some skill levels but hey your job application didn't hit my desk so I just hit the delete button on any of that as far as discussions go because I don't want to get bogged down with non-fact issues that are not relevant to what I am asking about.

Your married, you walk like a duck, you talk like a duck you're a duck. You do not have to prove you have a wife or dogs, alien yes.

Great you have established women and dogs exist now show/demonstrate/give documentation within the same confines and contexts that science has that shows that these other entities exist. Undocumented cases and references are of no value in the exchange that I am trying to engage you in.

jmccr8

 

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I don't know? I wasn't calling you a liar, I have been questioning perception and interpretation.

And that is fine but you have chosen this specific part of the forum to talk about them which means that you knew you would be asked the kinds of things that you are asked for as well and are prepared to properly demonstrate your position understanding the parameters of this sub-forum as it pertains to skepticism. No one says you can't talk about it we are simply asking you to show evidence as defined in science that there is an inking of support for your claims.

Actually what I gave you is more than sufficient to support what  I said as the contact info was given and the onus is on you to contact them for yourself if you have doubts. Yes I know you created a conspiracy theory right out the gate but if you need more read about the gallery in the links I gave you and the founding owner whom I also know and her husband a Queens Bench Magistrate as they were clients as well and am sure that they will also give supporting testimony of my involvement in the build. Unless you think that I have politicians and the justice system in my pocket.:lol:

There are hundreds of millions of people that work in the construction industry so me being one of them is not all that unbelievable nor is it that I might happen to have a skill set that allows me to have the credibility to do these types of projects. I said that I could show you I never said I want you to believe so I made and exercise out of this I gave Sherapy and Liquid Gardens the same material that I gave you. Sherapy and I have had some pms and she has seen some of my work and pics of my family,  Liquid Gardens and I have never had any contact outside of the threads and has never seen a picture of me unless he saw the one that I posted in response to you 2 yrs ago in a thread that got closed or my work so I would decided that because he has inter-acted in threads with me and knew what I have said as well my intent but still objective as an observer.

There is a difference in stating that I built this or that is not the same as I talk to aliens and fly the universe so no I don't think it is exactly the same. I don't question if you have a wife and dogs,yes I think you exaggerate some skill levels but hey your job application didn't hit my desk so I just hit the delete button on any of that as far as discussions go because I don't want to get bogged down with non-fact issues that are not relevant to what I am asking about.

Your married, you walk like a duck, you talk like a duck you're a duck. You do not have to prove you have a wife or dogs, alien yes.

Great you have established women and dogs exist now show/demonstrate/give documentation within the same confines and contexts that science has that shows that these other entities exist. Undocumented cases and references are of no value in the exchange that I am trying to engage you in.

jmccr8

this section is a debate. That doesn't mean proofs and evidences are required.

The debate goes on at many levels but, as with all things, depends on personal   experiences and what one believes or disbelieves is possible 

If there were transferable evidences, none of these matters would be suitable for a forum called UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES :) 

You have given me no concrete proofs. YOU know the context of what you have provided.

I do not.  I have to take your word for all of it and each bit of it 

I choose to take your word and thus believe you.

But if i choose NOT to, then there are no proofs or evidences you could use to prove any of it to be true.  

You show you understand this when you talk about believing not proving. Sure familiarity makes it easier to believe but offers no proofs for this particular case. 

Others may chose to believe or to disbelieve BUT, again, you can not  PROVE any of it to anyone UNLESS they accept  your evidences as true.  We probably all BELIEVE you, but none of us can KNOW you are telling the truth 

wait!  i don't know dogs and women exist because of science i know them personally so i know the y exist 

  Given tha t i know gods/ angels /ghosts etc personally. then i  have the same evidences for their existence as i do for women and dogs 

However for the last time The fact that both women and dogs exist goes no where to proving my claim to be married to a woman and having 3 dogs  it just makes it easier to believe  Eg i might claim to be married to a dog and keep 3 women as pets :)  We all know dogs and women exist, so that claim should be easy to believe :) 

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Aquila King
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Why would;d i lie about my experiences?

To inflate your own ego.

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Mr Walker
16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Just curious as you don't visualize so how do you do it?:huh:

jmccr8

I have long used dreams (where i have extremely accurate and realistic visualisation)  to learn new skills.

However i also use verbal and mathematical thinking 

eg i learned to be quite a good baseballer in about a dozen sessions,  when i was in my mid teens 

The first time i couldn't even hit the ball when it was tossed to me, underarm.

I used mathematics (vectors velocity)  etc to work out how to make the bat hit every ball by predicting the path of both ball and bat.

i could work out wht the spin or the speed of the ball would do to its trajectory and time the swing to hit the ball where and when i needed to for best efect 

i used words to explain that to my brain and to think through each movement and coordinate them.  i also integrated experience with cricket archery tennis, table tenis etc and other skills which are quite similar.

Then i also used dreams to practice and develop my skills, and learn. 

After  about 2 hours a week, for about 3 months, every Friday afternoon,  I   was good enough to make a good batter so I moved on to learn something new :)  

Likewise learning  water and snow ski ing,  ice and roller skating, skateboarding, windsurfing,  and surfing. all required similar and transferable skills, which could be worked out using maths and physics, and quick thinking in words. My mind ( and i assume all humans ) can think, plan, predict, analyse etc lots of incoming data in milliseconds and use that to compute effective action in any sport or activity  for me it comes as words or even simple direct knowledge which comes faster than words.

  Sailing was all about mathematics and physics to establish the best course, given the wind conditions and shape of the course 

eg I could just know where to point a boat to achieve the fastest speed, least lateral drift, and reach a mark in the shortest time.  It all came from  maths and physics but i didn't have to consciously work it out.  My mind just presented me with the solution in seconds  

 

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Mr Walker
15 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

To inflate your own ego.

Why would i need to do that?

  It is quite large enough, naturally :) 

ps in my mind lying  would deflate my ego.

Truth is the most important principle in my world.  If i lied it would dent my slef esteem knowing i was doing something harmful and destructive

it would also harm my abilty to convince others,  and thus be slef defeating 

 

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

You have given me no concrete proofs. YOU know the context of what you have provided.

I do not.  I have to take your word for all of it and each bit of it 

I choose to take your word and thus believe you.

Hi Walker

I can but won't show invoices, the city has it on file that I was the general contractor so there is plenty of documentation available to you if you take the initiative so no you don't have to take just my word credible sources have been given whether you accept them or research them is your choice. This demonstration is not for you but the observer.

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

But if i choose NOT to, then there are no proofs or evidences you could use to prove any of it to be true.

That is true but then a person doesn't honestly want to know the truth then.

9 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You show you understand this when you talk about believing not proving. Sure familiarity makes it easier to believe but offers no proofs for this particular case. 

Write me a list.:lol:

10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

wait!  i don't know dogs and women exist because of science i know them personally so i know the y exist 

Yes I see them too which is why there is documentation about women and dogs within science because they exist and can be studied.:rolleyes:

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Given tha t i know gods/ angels /ghosts etc personally. then i  have the same evidences for their existence as i do for women and dogs

Great for you but unfortunately this is the skepticism forum and well there are different demands for evidence than say some of the other sub-forums.:D

14 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

However for the last time The fact that both women and dogs exist goes no where to proving my claim to be married to a woman and having 3 dogs  it just makes it easier to believe  Eg i might claim to be married to a dog and keep 3 women as pets :)  We all know dogs and women exist, so that claim should be easy to believe :) 

Nobody is asking you to prove that you have a wife or dogs nor is the demand for evidence the same as it is for imaginary beings.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

I have long used dreams (where i have extremely accurate and realistic visualisation)  to learn new skills.

However i also use verbal and mathematical thinking 

eg i learned to be quite a good baseballer in about a dozen sessions,  when i was in my mid teens 

The first time i couldn't even hit the ball when it was tossed to me, underarm.

I used mathematics (vectors velocity)  etc to work out how to make the bat hit every ball by predicting the path of both ball and bat.

i could work out wht the spin or the speed of the ball would do to its trajectory and time the swing to hit the ball where and when i needed to for best efect 

i used words to explain that to my brain and to think through each movement and coordinate them.  i also integrated experience with cricket archery tennis, table tenis etc and other skills which are quite similar.

Then i also used dreams to practice and develop my skills, and learn. 

After  about 2 hours a week, for about 3 months, every Friday afternoon,  I   was good enough to make a good batter so I moved on to learn something new :)  

Likewise learning  water and snow ski ing,  ice and roller skating, skateboarding, windsurfing,  and surfing. all required similar and transferable skills, which could be worked out using maths and physics, and quick thinking in words. My mind ( and i assume all humans ) can think, plan, predict, analyse etc lots of incoming data in milliseconds and use that to compute effective action in any sport or activity  for me it comes as words or even simple direct knowledge which comes faster than words.

  Sailing was all about mathematics and physics to establish the best course, given the wind conditions and shape of the course 

eg I could just know where to point a boat to achieve the fastest speed, least lateral drift, and reach a mark in the shortest time.  It all came from  maths and physics but i didn't have to consciously work it out.  My mind just presented me with the solution in seconds  

 

Hi Walker

And this helps you in a ball game how?:huh:

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
21 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

See this is why things get confusing. How do you explain these two statements?

Walker Quote..."if i have more sleep than i need then i sleep lightly and  i remember all my dreams, but if i sleep deeply. due to tiredness. it is often hard to recall all my dreams"

jmccr8 

my point was that i can recall dreams from  any part of my sleep cycle including seconds after falling  asleep, during rem, during deep sleep, or when waking up.

  it is not true that we can only recall dreams from  rem sleep but it does seem tha t we have more dreams then and thus remember more of them   

However when i have more than enough sleep i tend to wake up more often and have a lighter level of sleep Both of thise increase the abilty to recall dreams ie if  you  sleep solidly for 8 hours you are not likely to recall all your dreams  and probably only the last one or two before you wake up. BUT if you  wake up and mentally memorise your dreams every hour or so you may remember most of them.This is easier to do when you are not so tired that you sleep deeply. You can wake yourself up easily for a few minutes from a light sleep,  recall your dreams and then go back to sleep When you wake up in the morning you will have several sets of memories for most of your dreams during the night  You can even train your mind to wake up at regular intervals such as every hour, and this is also easier if you are not deeply tired   

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Aquila King
12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Why would i need to do that?

  It is quite large enough, naturally :) 

Finally the truth comes out. :lol:

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Mr Walker
9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

And this helps you in a ball game how?:huh:

jmccr8

Which part?

Dreams can be, and are, used in  psychology and other areas as teaching/ learning techniques. You can use them to practice and learn new skills or to remove fears and phobias  Visualisation during a dream is exactly  the same as visualisation while waking (  i assume given tha t i cant visualise while awake) 

Approx 3 visualisations is as effective as one physical practice, according to a lecture i went to by Michael Carr Greg a well known Australian child psychologist 

quote

 A study looking at brain patterns in weightlifters found that the patterns activated when a weightlifter lifted hundreds of pounds were similarly activated when they only imagined lifting.  In some cases, research has revealed that mental practices are almost effective as true physical practice, and that doing both is more effective than either alone. For instance, in his study on everyday people, Guang Yue, an exercise psychologist from Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio, compared “people who went to the gym with people who carried out virtual workouts in their heads." He found a 30% muscle increase in the group who went to the gym. However, the group of participants who conducted mental exercises of the weight training increased muscle strength by almost half as much (13.5%). This average remained for three months following the mental training.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/flourish/200912/seeing-is-believing-the-power-visualization

 

quote

he finding: When people imagine practicing a skill or sport during “lucid dreaming,” the state in which a sleeping person recognizes he’s in a dream and takes control of it, their performance in that activity improves in real life.

The research: In field experiments that required people to toss coins into a coffee cup from a distance of two meters, participants who dreamed they practiced the task significantly outperformed those who didn’t—though not quite as well as the participants who actually practiced the coin toss while awake.

https://hbr.org/2012/04/practicing-in-dreams-can-improve-your-performance

 

Does lucid dreaming have potential applications beyond physical activities?

Yes. Many people have successfully used lucid dreams to help stop nightmares. People whose work requires creativity or problem solving can benefit from practicing those skills in dreams. Companies have hired me to do workshops on how to become more creative through dreams. One lucid dreamer I studied works as a video game programmer. Before he creates a game, he dreams about it. He’ll dream about monsters and play with them in the dream to see how they respond. He uses his dreams as a simulator for his day job.
 

f I dream about doing crunches, will I develop killer abs?

Yes and no: You won’t really get a six-pack just by dreaming, but research shows that envisioning yourself doing exercises can make specific muscles stronger, so you should get a stronger belly than if you didn’t dream about crunches. In general, if you want to improve in waking life, dreams are the perfect place to do it. 

Does that apply to tasks like delivering a speech?

You can rehearse any skill in a lucid dream. There’s no empirical evidence that dream rehearsals improve speeches, but anecdotally I know of people who prepared for important presentations with them.

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jmccr8
5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

my point was that i can recall dreams from  any part of my sleep cycle including seconds after falling  asleep, during rem, during deep sleep, or when waking up.

Hi Walker

The first quote you are claiming that you remember dreams from all states of sleep, the wording makes it sound as a certainty whereas the second quote you say from a deep tired sleep you have trouble recalling or even knowing if you had a dream. Do you understand what I am getting at? Some of your dreams may be like some products that have the disclaimer not as illustrated on package.

jmccr8

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