openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #101 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, the13bats said: and get angry when told what you just posted, superstition is powerful on some minds. I doubt many believers in the paranormal would get angry with that,they are generally deeper thinkers than skeptics.And usually don't put laughing emoji's at everything and anything that they don't, and will never comprehend.You really shouldn't be childish and jealous. Edited July 31, 2019 by openozy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #102 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 30/07/2019 at 9:10 AM, XenoFish said: Sorry I'm not buying into any poltergeist story. There has been nothing in my years of magick that I could not find a reasonable and rational explanations for. Even the time I stupidly convinced myself I was psychic. A truly embarrassing time of my life. That is just a statement that says, " I haven't witnessed it, therefore I'm ruling it out", is it not ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #103 Share Posted July 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, openozy said: I doubt many believers in the paranormal would get angry with that,they are generally deeper thinkers than skeptics.And usually don't put laughing emoji's at everything and anything that they don't, and will never comprehend. post the laughing face? i have seen some true believers do it just for the reason you suggested like when something is posted that hits a father raw nerve in them, i use it when i find something really funny or ridiculous. True believers are deeper thinkers and even tempered? Not what i have seen and experienced on this forum from many/most true believers, they are the most close minded in that they consider paranormal, superstitions etc the only possible explanation for their wild alleged stories and get all angry and go ad hominem when asked for proof which they of course never have. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #104 Share Posted July 31, 2019 bats, you know what they say, there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker, reformed this, reformed that....seeing you were a bigfoot believer for 40 years, I'd say some latitude might be exercised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #105 Share Posted July 31, 2019 48 minutes ago, the13bats said: post the laughing face? i have seen some true believers do it just for the reason you suggested like when something is posted that hits a father raw nerve in them, i use it when i find something really funny or ridiculous. True believers are deeper thinkers and even tempered? Not what i have seen and experienced on this forum from many/most true believers, they are the most close minded in that they consider paranormal, superstitions etc the only possible explanation for their wild alleged stories and get all angry and go ad hominem when asked for proof which they of course never have. There you go again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #106 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, openozy said: There you go again you opened a door i walked through 2 hours ago, Habitat said: bats, you know what they say, there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker, reformed this, reformed that....seeing you were a bigfoot believer for 40 years, I'd say some latitude might be exercised. No, not really, who are the "they" you speak of, voices in your head? we both know or rather i hope you are not that dense and just being a troll, whats really worse than just a boring troll is a troll that makes up stuff as you do, do you even have a clue how big a hypocrite you are being to tell me to exercise more latirude when you do not offer me the same courtesy. reformed? no, as i have corrected you many times before i wasnt ever what i would call a bigfoot believer, many years back i entertained the possibility it might exist more than i do now, i still would love for it to exist why not? Some people as time passes they gain more information more knowledge, like in my case through my research i felt it less and less likely bf really exists, is it possible bf exists? sure, but with the evidence we have available its very, very unlikely. but this isnt a thread about bigfoot rather ghosts and can they hurt you, which of course starts with does the person believe that ghosts exist, and just what does "ghost" mean to the person, i give a lot of latitude but just like with bigfoot ( that you obsess over ) I do not replace logic, science and evidence with superstitions and wild stories. since i do not believe things like any ghosts spookies, demons etc are autonomous enities out here with any kind of consciences due to a total lack of evidence i place all the other stuff like conjuring, telekinetics, psychics, etc into that same area of make believe. After decades of countless claims from attention seekers and or con artists ranging from phychic abilities, abilities to conjure up spookies, or these entities causing every mishap from lorry crashes to forks and spoons flying about the kitchen and when asking for a shred of proof all i have gotten is cop out, lame excuses, like only open minds see this stuff to not worth their time proving it to they "know" and thats good enough ( for them maybe ) lol. i have come to the conclusion that not all these people are liars some have metal illnesses and really do believe their stories ive heard of people who believed they could fly jumping off something high and had a bad wake up call. since you believe im lacking in latitude i will say back before you are so quick to judge keep in mind i will always welcome any proof anyone cares to present, its hardly my fault and misplaced to get cross with me they have none and only have their stories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #107 Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, the13bats said: i have come to the conclusion that not all these people are liars some have metal illnesses Jolly decent of you to make that allowance, bats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #108 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, the13bats said: i have come to the conclusion that not all these people are liars some have metal illnesses 1 hour ago, Habitat said: Jolly decent of you to make that allowance, bats. Thank you for alerting me to something that is short, while i do believe some people make up wild stories and others suffer from mental illnesses i far from pigeon hole myself to just those possiblities, there are also people who fall for hoaxes and frauds, phychics prey on believers and there are those who manipulate, brainwash if you will others into believing stuff seeing stuff that isnt real they convince their victims of all kinds of delusions, cult leaders do it all big and epic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #109 Share Posted July 31, 2019 The world if full of sugared lies, bats, Some are terribly subtle. You know what old Shakespeare said, "children and fools speak the truth" ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #110 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, the13bats said: while i do believe some people make up wild stories and others suffer from mental illnesses i far from pigeon hole myself to just those possiblities, there are also people who fall for hoaxes and frauds, I don't fall into any of these catagories,so what do you think my motivation is.Sorry for trolling in advance.You forgot to mention that some people actually do experience these things regardless of you opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #111 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, the13bats said: True believers What's a true believer you are always going on about?it sounds kind of religious, which I'm not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 31, 2019 #112 Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 hours ago, Habitat said: That is just a statement that says, " I haven't witnessed it, therefore I'm ruling it out", is it not ? Nope. It's saying that I questioned every experience and didn't go on blind faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted July 31, 2019 #113 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, openozy said: I don't fall into any of these catagories,so what do you think my motivation is.Sorry for trolling in advance.You forgot to mention that some people actually do experience these things regardless of you opinion. The FACT is that human beings have been reporting ghosts for as long as there have been human beings. We have stone age paintings of ghosts and spirits on cave walls. Ghosts are older than civilization. Every religion recognizes their existence, even the extinct ones (not that this is a recommendation). Ghosts have been a cultural force in human life since before the old Anglo Saxons coined the word ghost, which was "gast" meaning breath, from which we also get "gust", let alone the French coining the term "culture". The fact is, 60% of people claim to have seen at least 1 ghost in their lifetime. Is that proof of their existence? No. Paraphrasing the old saying, "you can fool some of the people all of the time". On the other hand, the ubiquity of ghosts is something that deserves proper attention, because "something" is going on, and ignoring it has not made it go away. Edited July 31, 2019 by Alchopwn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #114 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, openozy said: I don't fall into any of these catagories,so what do you think my motivation is.Sorry for trolling in advance.You forgot to mention that some people actually do experience these things regardless of you opinion. 1 hour ago, openozy said: What's a true believer you are always going on about?it sounds kind of religious, which I'm not. This post from you is a legitimate statement and question, not trolling. Some people do believe they experence "these things" but my opinion doesnt change the fact its only in their minds. As far as a person admitting something about themselves or denying they fall into a category that is a weak arguement to me, con artists seldom admit they are ripping someone off, hoaxers sometimes admit but usually only after getting busted, people getting fooled some admit it some are too embarrassed, and lets face it few people with the type of mental illness that would have them believing they experence "these things" are going to admit it could be all in their minds heck, they believe "these things "and believe they are sane. I pretty much covered how i look at it before but to word it a different way Some people do very much believe they experence "these things" as you put it, some people are sincern some full of it and like you they dont have proof, no, stories are not proof, no, a partner friend or family member collaborating a story isnt proof, excuses for not having proof are just that excuses. i have come to the conclusion you take my disbelief in your alleged experences very personal, i wish you didnt, its not personal to me, unexplained mysteries are a hobby for me, i love to figure stuff out. Some could get a very wrong impression about me i am very open for proof. I would love for you to have video of the demons you claim to conjure at will or your tableware flying across the room but you dont so i take what you claim as a story nothing more, not proof of the paranormal or supernatural, sure i understand you believe your experences really happened but belief isnt proof or fact, its blind faith. What is a "true believer"? I would guess the definition varies person to person, i do not use the term in any derogatory sense to me it is just the label i give a person who believes something with zero real evidence or proof it could be spookies, aliens, bigfoot or purple unicorns or "these things" you believe. so i respect you believe what you believe but my respect you believe it is far from enough for me to believe it too...i need proof not blind faith. Edited July 31, 2019 by the13bats mistyped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #115 Share Posted July 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: Paraphrasing the old saying, "you can fool some of the people all of the time". On the other hand, the ubiquity of ghosts is something that deserves proper attention, because "something" is going on, and ignoring it has not made it go away while i surly cant speculate if some cavemans wall painting was suppose to be his late aunts ghost in for a visit i fully get your point and get the fact for almost as long as there have been ghost stories there has been the lack of any proof. I have a rather simple explanation, mans obsession with ghosts, spirits, the here after is based in mans fear or disdane for his own mortality, and that even plays in with the idea the human construct of being haunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #116 Share Posted July 31, 2019 29 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Nope. It's saying that I questioned every experience and didn't go on blind faith. There was, and still is, a battle going on in your mind as to the possibility of such things. The more important question might be, what is at stake if this stuff is real ? How does that impact on you, if somehow, it was shown to you to be real ? I'd say many people don't have a firm opinion, but are quite relaxed about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 31, 2019 #117 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Habitat said: There was, and still is, a battle going on in your mind as to the possibility of such things. The more important question might be, what is at stake if this stuff is real ? How does that impact on you, if somehow, it was shown to you to be real ? I'd say many people don't have a firm opinion, but are quite relaxed about that. If it's proven real, then it's real and my opinion changes. But it has to be factual and survive the rigors of science first. Ghostly morse code won't do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #118 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, XenoFish said: If it's proven real, then it's real and my opinion changes. But it has to be factual and survive the rigors of science first. Ghostly morse code won't do. Sarcasm does not become you. If you were I, you'd have not the slightest doubt. But, again, the point is, why is it important ? Life goes on, it isn't a cataclysmic discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #119 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Habitat said: The world if full of sugared lies, bats, Some are terribly subtle. You know what old Shakespeare said, "children and fools speak the truth" ! 35 minutes ago, Habitat said: There was, and still is, a battle going on in your mind as to the possibility of such things. The more important question might be, what is at stake if this stuff is real ? How does that impact on you, if somehow, it was shown to you to be real ? I'd say many people don't have a firm opinion, but are quite relaxed about that. whats really cool in that to me while you were directing it at just one person as he pointed out what he requires to prove it to him would prove it across the board...and of course if a person had the proof they were present it not dance around like a kid singing "i know something you dont know" its ironic and very telling...they dont know as much as they think they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #120 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, the13bats said: he pointed out what he requires to prove it to him would prove it across the board.. I didn't see him quite state that, bats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #121 Share Posted July 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Habitat said: I didn't see him quite state that, bats. oh no? 35 minutes ago, XenoFish said: If it's proven real, then it's real and my opinion changes. But it has to be factual and survive the rigors of science first. Ghostly morse code won't do. ^ In bold, works for me would work for most or many. like i side if you have proof post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 31, 2019 #122 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Well then bats, I have very high confidence that both he and you will die ignorant of the truth. The "beyond" reveals itself on its terms, and none other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #123 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, the13bats said: a partner friend or family member collaborating a story isnt proof If in a court of law a collaborating story goes a long way to prove your innocence, you have no proof this stuff is not real at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted July 31, 2019 #124 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, the13bats said: so i respect you believe what you believe but my respect you believe it is far from enough for me to believe it too...i need proof not blind faith. So if you experienced something paranormal would you believe it was real or just keep your head in the sand and still deny it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 31, 2019 #125 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, openozy said: If in a court of law a collaborating story goes a long way to prove your innocence, you have no proof this stuff is not real at all. its not mine or anyones burden to prove someones imagination and superstitions are not real. can you should me a modern court case where it was proven that someone conjured a demon, had tableware flying or any of the things you claim? Edited July 31, 2019 by the13bats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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