LucidElement Posted June 7, 2019 Author #51 Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 11:25 PM, papageorge1 said: These comments don't seem even lucid to me. Do you think the Bigfoot mystery is just about this one hair sample? Of course not guy.. but the FBI headline was about the deer sample. And how could it have been a mystery when it was just released from the FBI archives? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 7, 2019 #52 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 hours ago, papageorge1 said: open-minded skeptics like myself are neither believers nor non-believers. We follow the evidence and argumentation objectively and use reason. Ladies and Gentlemen, we now have a winner for "Most Humorous Statement on UM for 2019" The Polls are now closed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted June 7, 2019 #53 Share Posted June 7, 2019 13 hours ago, khazarkhum said: It is extraordinarily, exceedingly rare to find a dead animal in the wild. Between predators, scavengers, and weather, most animals quickly return to the earth. Not too rare. All sorts of things are found in the woods. Of course, as you say there is a grand recycling scheme happening with body parts being returned to the cycle of life. We'd be neck deep in turds if it was not the food for something. I find all sorts of things in the woods from the skulls of shrew to the vertebrae of deer. I have bear scat and deer scat as common lawn decorations where I live as well as scat from raccoons and opossums. I have dall sheep horns, impala horns, and caribou antlers on my walls and I've never pulled a trigger. There are reports all of the time of dead humans when in fact the body parts are that of a bear. http://gothamist.com/2011/11/08/childs_foot_found_on_lawn_was_actua.php When I was in Africa we were in the mountains tracking gorillas. The guide points to the ground where a large french bread shaped loaf is lying on the ground. He says "gorilla" in a hushed voice. That could not have been deposited by a human that lived. If BF were out there then it would be very clear to people that whatever made a deposit was not a human. Tossed in this story because it is priceless. https://people.com/pets/pet-dog-is-bear-not-tibetan-mastiff/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 7, 2019 #54 Share Posted June 7, 2019 22 hours ago, AllPossible said: If bigfoot is real why have we never came across a dead one? Are the vultures that fast? There are plenty of reasons why this might be the case. The most obvious being that perhaps they bury their dead? Or eat them... Of course it is also possible that Bigfoot is some sort of archetypal experience and not a real creature. There are a lot of possibilities besides these too. I do think it is fair to say that unless there is a super-dedicated body of bigfoot hoaxers that there are too many sightings for it to be easily dismissed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 7, 2019 #55 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Quote I do think it is fair to say that unless there is a super-dedicated body of bigfoot hoaxers that there are too many sightings for it to be easily dismissed. i guess this is shared by many of us and to me is just another piece of the puzzle, sure i dismiss things but i dismiss them with a heading, IE, misidentification, hoax, was unkownly hoaxed, out right lied, or delusional, so there are far more possiblities than "hoax or real". i dont subscribe to things like bf is some interdimensional phase jumping shape shifting spirit alien pet, i believe i credit grover krantz with starting or at least being the loudest noisy true believer with excuses for no remains found, the arguement is based on that remains of other creatures arent found so why expect to find BF remains, he would go on to say something to the effect that he over 20 years he asked, rangers, hunters, outdoorsmen etc and his grand total for natural dead bears was zero, sounds great but under closer inspection is weak, in krantz case i dont know how many people he has asked but i guess he wasnt convinced humself as near the end of his life he was building a small helicopter and planned to search with infrared for remains, so obviously he too felt remains should be found. use this forum as example i have seen at least 3 say sure they find animal remains, and some are rare animals but they are found period, no grey area, after all this time and so many hunting bf something more that a story should have been found. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the frog Posted June 8, 2019 #56 Share Posted June 8, 2019 On 6/6/2019 at 12:12 PM, XenoFish said: Since we've yet to find a Bigfoot corpse it is easy to assume it doesn't exist. Anything living in north america would have been killed by car at least one time in the past century...sure it is easy to assume it doesn't exist. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted June 8, 2019 #57 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Ladies and Gentlemen, we now have a winner for "Most Humorous Statement on UM for 2019" The Polls are now closed. I ask you, though...would UM be the same without Mr. Papageorgio? Edited June 8, 2019 by GlitterRose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 8, 2019 #58 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 hours ago, GlitterRose said: I ask you, though...would UM be the same without Mr. Papageorgio? why did something about your post make me crave pizza at 5:21 am.... nope, UM would be far less fun and entertaining, i hope he doesn't ever take me too seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 8, 2019 #59 Share Posted June 8, 2019 11 hours ago, the13bats said: i have seen at least 3 say sure they find animal remains, and some are rare animals but they are found period, no grey area, after all this time and so many hunting bf something more that a story should have been found. Look, I agree. All I can do is make excuses for why no remains have been found really. IF we were dealing with an ordinary animal their carcasses would show up from time to time. On the other hand, there is a good chance that bigfoot isn't a very normal animal at all. There is a good chance that its vocal range includes infrasound and it has pretty phenomenal mimicry. It is pretty clear that it has amazing stealth abilities too. Of course this can also be used as an argument that it is all in the mind of the observer and has no physical reality, i.e. it is a Jungian archetypal experience of the primordial wild man. Is anyone satisfied with that interpretation tho? The fact is, when dealing with a creature that large, we really should have found more than some equivocal footprints, and some hair samples. On the other hand, there have been a couple of occasions when alleged missing links and rock apes have shown up in side shows over the years. So lets address the issue of government cover up... what on earth would a cover up actually achieve? Wouldn't everyone be better off if they knew that certain parts of the world were off limits due to bigfoots? Wouldn't it be nice to have some legislation to cover the issue? Why do bigfoots need to be hidden from the public? You'd think with the present environmental movement gathering force, that it was never a better time to be a bigfoot seeking recognition and protection of one's territory from human incursion. For all we know, bigfoot is actually a skinwalker or a troll (the faerie kind, not the internet kind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 8, 2019 #60 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Alchopwn said: Look, I agree. All I can do is make excuses for why no remains have been found really. IF we were dealing with an ordinary animal their carcasses would show up from time to time. On the other hand, there is a good chance that bigfoot isn't a very normal animal at all. There is a good chance that its vocal range includes infrasound and it has pretty phenomenal mimicry. It is pretty clear that it has amazing stealth abilities too. Of course this can also be used as an argument that it is all in the mind of the observer and has no physical reality, i.e. it is a Jungian archetypal experience of the primordial wild man. Is anyone satisfied with that interpretation tho? The fact is, when dealing with a creature that large, we really should have found more than some equivocal footprints, and some hair samples. On the other hand, there have been a couple of occasions when alleged missing links and rock apes have shown up in side shows over the years. So lets address the issue of government cover up... what on earth would a cover up actually achieve? Wouldn't everyone be better off if they knew that certain parts of the world were off limits due to bigfoots? Wouldn't it be nice to have some legislation to cover the issue? Why do bigfoots need to be hidden from the public? You'd think with the present environmental movement gathering force, that it was never a better time to be a bigfoot seeking recognition and protection of one's territory from human incursion. For all we know, bigfoot is actually a skinwalker or a troll (the faerie kind, not the internet kind). short of what i stick in the realm or fantasy and make believe like trolls, faeries and folklore skinwalkers your post is very intriguing, not to siund pompous but i am up on my sideshow trivia, acts that are living would be humans with medical conditions IE tall people short people, siamese twins, etc or just self made like blockheads, geeks, tattooed people sword swallowers etc, then animals some alive and if dead who knows how they started and then ended up, my dad did taxidermy work that was very good fooled a lot of people, so any missing like type thing is just a story for now, remember Minnesota ice man, i didnt win but bid on the prop, and it fooled sanderson and heuvelman back in its day. why wouldnt someone want people talking about bf, that is a great question i really dont know, i personally unless i subscribe more conspiracy type bs to it like bf is an alien i cant come up with any reason for gov cover up and lets face it if bf is involved in a cover up the job wasnt any good, most people know just what a bf is supposed to look like whether they believe in it or not, so ill move on from that. when i got on the net decades back so much of what i thought went in the trash can, if bf were real would die of old age, perhaps fights with each other or animals, ill say "natural causes" where perhaps their brethren could eat or bury the dead but but also from natural disasters that are out of their control and bodies wiuld be left, even human remains are found, its to me a bigger enigma that if bf were real why by now we dont have evidence, so for me for now i simply do not see the evidence as a whole supporting bf is a living creature but its real as in a human contruct, we are talking about some are adamant they saw one, its not going away anytime soon because where a body would prove it exists there is no way to prove is doesnt, either keeps interest alive, that keeps me talking about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 9, 2019 #61 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, the13bats said: when i got on the net decades back so much of what i thought went in the trash can, if bf were real would die of old age, perhaps fights with each other or animals, ill say "natural causes" where perhaps their brethren could eat or bury the dead but but also from natural disasters that are out of their control and bodies wiuld be left, even human remains are found, its to me a bigger enigma that if bf were real why by now we dont have evidence, so for me for now i simply do not see the evidence as a whole supporting bf is a living creature but its real as in a human contruct, we are talking about some are adamant they saw one, its not going away anytime soon because where a body would prove it exists there is no way to prove is doesnt, either keeps interest alive,that keeps me talking about it. Regarding the whole skinwalker/troll idea, that was largely tongue in cheek. I mean, we have a lot more evidence for bigfoot than for skinwalkers or trolls, but there is at least a little bit of evidence to suggest that bigfoot has some pretty unusual abilities that help it go undetected. Back to your point, I agree that it is pretty damn odd that we haven't found any bigfoot remains. In terms of legitimate science however, we can point to the existence of many much dumber critters than bigfoot whose existence has gone utterly unnoticed for a very long time. Consider the animals in this link: 10 mammals discovered in the last 10 years now some of those animals such as the Saola are reasonably large, and yet no scientist had ever laid eyes on one, let alone recorded it until quite recently. We have to assume that bigfoot is much smarter than any of the animals in the article, and at home in its environment in a way we don't grok, and very good at playing hide and seek as a survival strategy. I am not saying that bigfoot categorically exists, but that it is plausible that it exists, and that while the lack of physical evidence is problematic, it isn't necessarily the end of the story, and may just be something about the puzzle we need to unravel, assuming that bigfoot is real (and a lot of eyewitnesses are pretty convinced bigfoot is real). Edited June 9, 2019 by Alchopwn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 9, 2019 #62 Share Posted June 9, 2019 @Alchopwn good link, some i had not heard of before, on the skinwalker, troll, fairies etc stuff, and how i said i just stick it in my folklore/fantasy/imagination however, things like skinwalkers are very real, well, not the paranormal supernatural parts added for dramatic effect, then trolls or fairies, its a bit ironic that i would just about bet you as many people believe in them as do bf just not as out about it, and more ironic we have basically the same evidence for them as we do bf, sure im a skeptic but im not a "slam the door" type, its very hard for me to say 100% of bf witnesses are outright lying, falling for a hoax, mistaken or ? and same with 100% of tracks, but its again very hard for me to not have any evidence, its hard for me to accept the lack of good pictures or videos, way too many people out there with cameras of every type, i saw a doc where a bf hunter has 60 cameras on trees he was a hobbiest and you know there are countless more like that 100s 1000s and not one good picture not one, so where does that leave us? while forum troll fodder i admit my days of research are not in the field, and as far as im concerned there are plenty of bf hunters out there, so i guess i wait for the next story or blobsquatch pic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 16, 2019 #63 Share Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 8:34 PM, the13bats said: on the skinwalker, troll, fairies etc stuff, and how i said i just stick it in my folklore/fantasy/imagination however, things like skinwalkers are very real, well, not the paranormal supernatural parts added for dramatic effect LOL, and I'd be one of them. I saw an actual pixie-style faerie when I was a kid. It is still a little embarrassing. I mean, back then I thought ghosts and aliens are more plausible, so why couldn't I get to see a ghost or an alien? Instead I got to see a pixie right up close. Was I hallucinating? Perhaps. On the other hand I was 9 years old and hadn't taken anything hallucinogenic, and I sure wasn't asleep, as the pixie only flew away when adults approached, and I was chasing it and calling out for them to come and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 16, 2019 #64 Share Posted June 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Alchopwn said: LOL, and I'd be one of them. I saw an actual pixie-style faerie when I was a kid. It is still a little embarrassing. I mean, back then I thought ghosts and aliens are more plausible, so why couldn't I get to see a ghost or an alien? Instead I got to see a pixie right up close. Was I hallucinating? Perhaps. On the other hand I was 9 years old and hadn't taken anything hallucinogenic, and I sure wasn't asleep, as the pixie only flew away when adults approached, and I was chasing it and calling out for them to come and see. a lot of people claim to see things that doesnt mean they exist in the world outside their minds, and i know thats a hard thing for some to accept, between 9 and now your memory of it has changed been embelished, that too can be hard to accept, do i think you imagined it? not necessarily, but i also do not believe you saw a fairy so perhaps you saw a humming bird or insect, we will never know. heres a story, it was going on dusk and i was next door many years ago in orlando, a large insect was buzzing around the ladies flowers she started in that it was a humming bird, i said no, i believe thats a bug, she went into a long winder why it was a humming bug and how ridiculous i was to say otherwise, dont right condesending another neighbor walked over to his house came back not saying a word and with his kids minnow net quickly nabbed this type of insect, a cicada. these are common in fl but not seen too much, he shows it to the lady who without missing a beat she says well, thats not the humming bird. ( it was the same creature ) my point is you believe you saw a pixie, i respect you and your posts and believe that you believe you saw it and i wont try to change your mind but i can at the same time not believe you did actually see a pixie with no insult or disrespect meant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 17, 2019 #65 Share Posted June 17, 2019 8 hours ago, the13bats said: my point is you believe you saw a pixie, i respect you and your posts and believe that you believe you saw it and i wont try to change your mind but i can at the same time not believe you did actually see a pixie with no insult or disrespect meant. That is perfectly fine. I don't expect you to believe me, as my claim is outrageous and I can present no tangible evidence for it, other than my personal experience, which I, myself, have difficulty reconciling. TBH I saw something that SHOULDN'T exist, but all the same I know I saw it, as I studied it from different angles, right up close. It may have been a visual hallucination as it was very quiet and barely made a noise. As to the notion that it was an insect, it started as a butterfly, but it had outrageously pink wings, and being a young boy I was prone to a trained revulsion for that sort of lolly girly pink, so I almost didn't bother investigating. As I aproached it proceeded to "fold" like origami and turned into a pixie. I think the folding was what the faerie myths call a glamor, but at the time I had no idea what to call that, as I had never heard of the glamor. All in all, and interesting experience, but annoying for its lack of plausibility when compared to aliens and ghosts, which are the more common visitations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 18, 2019 #66 Share Posted June 18, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 8:34 PM, the13bats said: things like skinwalkers are very real, well, not the paranormal supernatural parts added for dramatic effect, I forgot to ask... What did you mean by this? I am seriously interested in your opinion on the matter 13bats. I have read a bit about skinwalkers, but I have never heard anyone ever say they were anything other than paranormal/ supernatural. That makes your take on the matter a bit unusual and I want to understand your position . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 18, 2019 #67 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: I forgot to ask... What did you mean by this? I am seriously interested in your opinion on the matter 13bats. I have read a bit about skinwalkers, but I have never heard anyone ever say they were anything other than paranormal/ supernatural. That makes your take on the matter a bit unusual and I want to understand your position . sure, skinwalkers to me are real, in a way part of rich indian folklore the bad witch who can become or appear as some animal i believe some shamen who have lost track might dress in skins of animals and try to pose as them, to add a bit of ooga booga to their craft not so far removed from shapeshifters also real but they dont really change outwardly, for lack of better terms its all about showmanship. i believe piney can word it better than me, he is to me a rare example as he doesnt use the hocus pocus bogus focus bs to help people..... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted June 18, 2019 #68 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, the13bats said: sure, skinwalkers to me are real, in a way part of rich indian folklore the bad witch who can become or appear as some animal i believe some shamen who have lost track might dress in skins of animals and try to pose as them, to add a bit of ooga booga to their craft not so far removed from shapeshifters also real but they dont really change outwardly, for lack of better terms its all about showmanship. i believe piney can word it better than me, he is to me a rare example as he doesnt use the hocus pocus bogus focus bs to help people..... Hey, thanks for that. I am a little surprised that anyone would fall for that, but it is plausible. I suppose every threat seems bigger than life on a back road in the dark, so it makes sense. I am also gonna get Piney's take on Bigfoot and Skinwalkers on your suggestion. Edited June 18, 2019 by Alchopwn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 18, 2019 #69 Share Posted June 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: Hey, thanks for that. I am a little surprised that anyone would fall for that, but it is plausible. I suppose every threat seems bigger than life on a back road in the dark, so it makes sense. I am also gonna get Piney's take on Bigfoot and Skinwalkers on your suggestion. sure, its not so much "falling for it" as a deep belief, sometimes too we are dealing with people who do not have such a defined line between real and imaginary, or mystical if you will. without spoiling the ending piney is one of the few here who has put time in hunting bf and based his opinions on that, so its pretty cool. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 18, 2019 #70 Share Posted June 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, the13bats said: without spoiling the ending piney is one of the few here who has put time in hunting bf and based his opinions on that, so its pretty cool. There's a few other's who were here. They either moved on or died. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 18, 2019 #71 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Alchopwn said: I am a little surprised that anyone would fall for that, but it is plausible. It's all in the technique of using shadows and being a good mimic but being born with pointed ears, fangs and eyes that turn yellow helps a lot. The power of suggestion is a great tool too. False memories are fun. Reputation creates it's own ideas and memory of events. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UIOAE432 Posted June 22, 2019 #72 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) How much This bloke who taped it walks exactly the same as this footage even they way he turned its him in a suit..Straight out,,LOAD OF CRAP PARANORMAL..They are telepathic ya wont see them theyhave seven sense ,This bloke was in the suit the 1 that filmed it .CANT STAND PEEPS WHO MAKE CRAP UP..WATCH HIM YOU WILL SEE,WATCH FROM THE START YOU WILL SEE TRUTH Edited June 22, 2019 by UIOAE432 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Mil Posted June 25, 2019 #73 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) I wouldn't call myself a Bigfoot "believer" per say, that would indicate a level of certainty I don't have. However, I do suspect that an extant descendant of Gigantopithecus does exist today, accounting for the various sightings of Bigfoot/Yeti/Skunk Ape/etc. Considering that the mountain gorilla was not discovered until 1902, I don't think that this theory is wildly speculative. Certainly we don't have the sort of evidence for Bigfoot like we do for the Chupacabra (multiple videos, stills, corpses, and DNA test with skin biopsies ruling out mange). In fact, in the latter case, it's almost no longer appropriate to call the animal a cryptid. As for as why we don't have a body, it's amazing just how small a portion of this planet humanity has an occasional, let alone a permanent, footprint on. Google earth misleads us in this respect sometimes. Edited June 25, 2019 by Old_Mil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted June 25, 2019 #74 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Old_Mil said: I wouldn't call myself a Bigfoot "believer" per say, that would indicate a level of certainty I don't have. However, I do suspect that an extant descendant of Gigantopithecus does exist today, accounting for the various sightings of Bigfoot/Yeti/Skunk Ape/etc. Considering that the mountain gorilla was not discovered until 1902, I don't think that this theory is wildly speculative. Certainly we don't have the sort of evidence for Bigfoot like we do for the Chupacabra (multiple videos, stills, corpses, and DNA test with skin biopsies ruling out mange). In fact, in the latter case, it's almost no longer appropriate to call the animal a cryptid. As for as why we don't have a body, it's amazing just how small a portion of this planet humanity has an occasional, let alone a permanent, footprint on. Google earth misleads us in this respect sometimes. I suspect in the case of the chupacabra you are talking about a type 2 chupacabra. I was not aware of any cases of type 2 bodies where mange had been ruled out. I woould be interested in learning about those cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 26, 2019 #75 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) chupra type 1 was never anything but myth, hoax and imaginations, chupra type 2 is a blanket term something of an amalgamate for a hairless canid type creature who may be suffereing from mange ( no, never ruled out, cant be ) it may be a hybrid or mutant, most people who get a body just crave attention and $$$ not furthering science the one popped up stuffed on ebay for like 10k but tests just seem to be vauge i believe on purpose, one expert will say one thing another something else, with the type 2 trend it got so convoluted and down right cheesy i moved on. Edited June 26, 2019 by the13bats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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