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Maya acoustics: Chichen Itza


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34 minutes ago, WVK said:

Because I would like to know if the effect was intentional, if not was it noticed and if noticed used

I use to work at that site in the 70's during the hot summers as a grad student....Okay and how do you expect to determine if it was intentional? What percentage of stone staircases in Mayan cities return the same sound (all will return an echo of some sort), how  would you determine if it noticed? How would you determine if it was 'used'. Other than check all other staircases in Mayan cities I'm not sure any methodology will determine this.

That it is reported only at that site lends one to the believe it was a coincidence - but feel free to raise the money and hire a team to go test that idea - let us know how you get on.

1e7615a222d499adefbdfc29c62aa3a7.jpg

Check all these places first...then check the echoes you get with all known natural sounds.......

Chichen Itza was found in a ruined state and Kukulkan was partially reconstructed

 

TempleofKukulkan7-291x300.jpg

TempleofKukulkan5-300x245.jpg

 

The first pyramid, from about 600 AD dates from the Maya Classic period a century or so before the civilization’s overall collapse.  The second structure, with its façade recognizable to many today, was constructed in the Eleventh Century after people from central Mexico, possibly the Toltecs, occupied and revived the city of Chichén Itzá.  As a result of having a pyramid on top of a pyramid, there exists an interior gap between the buildings complete with the original structure’s staircase.  Other tunnels and chambers exist inside the pyramid as well, including what has been dubbed the “Hall of Offerings,” the “Throne Room” and the “Chamber of Sacrifices.” 

http://mexicounexplained.com/the-temple-of-kukulkan-pyramid-of-mystery/

 

Edited by Hanslune
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5 hours ago, WVK said:

Tile bathrooms are reverberant.  Of the structures listed El Caracol is the only one with that quality. There a  narrow "sweet spot"  located about half way in the portal. There your voice will resonate strongly and this altered quality projects outward.  This would sound  supernatural to Mayans who have experienced only natural sound. .

That’s some mighty specific knowledge to have. 

Any chance that’s merely your opinion and not a solid fact? I bet the Maya had musical instruments and performance traditions, so they clearly had other non-natural sounds in their world. 

—Jaylemurph

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9 hours ago, Piney said:

If I remember right there was some fraudulent "prophet" running around the Greco-Roman world with a snake puppet and built sound chambers so his "god" could speak. I don't recall the details so I can't Google the name. 

Then there was Delphi, where Apollo "spoke" and some tricks used by Druid in Gaul. 

IIRC, that's also how Alexander was declared a god by the Egyptians.

Harte

 

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I think the R&D would be costly if they were looking to create a specific sound given that they would have to build the walls first. Nope, it doesn't sound right tear it down and put it over there.

jmccr8

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20 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

That’s some mighty specific knowledge to have. 

Any chance that’s merely your opinion and not a solid fact? I bet the Maya had musical instruments and performance traditions, so they clearly had other non-natural sounds in their world. 

—Jaylemurph

The person in the portal would be perfectly visible and normal  but the voice is destorted with resonance. A tool for the priests to display, with sight and sound,  their divinity.to the rank & file.  

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Assuming any sound effects are as described, perhaps they are an accidental by product of the buildings and weren't necessarily intentional. A proven occurrence of such an effect can be experienced in the Whispering Gallery of St. Pauls Cathedral in London.  Link.  https://londonist.com/2016/05/how-does-the-whispering-gallery-at-st-paul-s-actually-work

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6 hours ago, WVK said:

The person in the portal would be perfectly visible and normal  but the voice is destorted with resonance. A tool for the priests to display, with sight and sound,  their divinity.to the rank & file.  

Not my point. At all. You said the Maya had no “unnatural” sounds. That’s codswallop.

—Jaylemurph 

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1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

Not my point. At all. You said the Maya had no “unnatural” sounds. That’s codswallop.

—Jaylemurph 

Isn't that like asking him for where the cheese grater is when you want to gut an elephant?

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On 6/11/2019 at 6:44 AM, WVK said:

 

Always?  The quetzal chirp can be elicited in a large area in front of the steps no marker necessary

That's why I don't think it's a phenomena that they knew of or deliberately created.  As far as I know, there aren't any literary references to it or legendary references, and there's no image/design there that suggests a quetzal.

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9 hours ago, WVK said:

The person in the portal would be perfectly visible and normal  but the voice is destorted with resonance. A tool for the priests to display, with sight and sound,  their divinity.to the rank & file.  

Yeah, but the problem would be that once they stepped away (or went home to their wives, friends, and families) it would be plain that they weren't divine.  Also, there's no documents of divine priests or divine priesthoods AFAIK.

Edited by Kenemet
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35 minutes ago, Dynamo X said:

Assuming any sound effects are as described, perhaps they are an accidental by product of the buildings and weren't necessarily intentional. A proven occurrence of such an effect can be experienced in the Whispering Gallery of St. Pauls Cathedral in London.  Link.  https://londonist.com/2016/05/how-does-the-whispering-gallery-at-st-paul-s-actually-work

The Great Ball Court is also a whispering gallery

 

9 hours ago, Kenemet said:

That's why I don't think it's a phenomena that they knew of or deliberately created.  As far as I know, there aren't any literary references to it or legendary references, and there's no image/design there that suggests a quetzal.

"Built by the pre-Columbian Maya civilization sometime between the 9th and 12th centuries CE or AD, El Castillo served as a temple to the god Kukulkan, the Yucatec Maya Feathered Serpent deity closely related to the god Quetzalcoatl known to the Aztecs and other central Mexican cultures of the Postclassic period."
"

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On 11/06/2019 at 10:42 PM, WVK said:

Tile bathrooms are reverberant.  Of the structures listed El Caracol is the only one with that quality. There a  narrow "sweet spot"  located about half way in the portal. There your voice will resonate strongly and this altered quality projects outward.  This would sound  supernatural to Mayans who have experienced only natural sound. .

Anything hard will have a similar effect, unless it is specifically produced to nullify sound waves. 

The didn’t generally build ancient structures with acoustic foam... For reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_foam

Even the most porous and least dense naturally occurring solids used to build structures will still produce an echo. 

Eg. Sandstone caves do echo...

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2 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Anything hard will have a similar effect, unless it is specifically produced to nullify sound waves. 

The didn’t generally build ancient structures with acoustic foam... For reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_foam

Even the most porous and least dense naturally occurring solids used to build structures will still produce an echo. 

Eg. Sandstone caves do echo...

Echos usually resemble the impulse sound, in CI the impulse sound is transformed into the sound of a quetzal and rattlesnake both of which have cultural significance for the Maya

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14 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Not my point. At all. You said the Maya had no “unnatural” sounds. That’s codswallop.

—Jaylemurph 

Was the sound of a drum or flute etc considered  "unnatural"? That might a apply when played in the Caracol.   

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31 minutes ago, WVK said:

Echos usually resemble the impulse sound, in CI the impulse sound is transformed into the sound of a quetzal and rattlesnake both of which have cultural significance for the Maya

It just feels like you’re grasping at straws with this.

And the people here which are very knowledgeable on these subjects also again are not convinced by your opinions.

So, if a logical layman doesn’t see your point, and also the most knowledgeable persons here. It should offer you some hints.

You have many extremely bizarre ideas. That is a definite.

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10 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Y

15 hours ago, Dynamo X said:

Assuming any sound effects are as described, perhaps they are an accidental by product of the buildings and weren't necessarily intentional. A proven occurrence of such an effect can be experienced in the Whispering Gallery of St. Pauls Cathedral in London.  Link.  https://londonist.com/2016/05/how-does-the-whispering-gallery-at-st-paul-s-actually-work

The GBC is unique in that it doesn't rely on curved surfaces to produce the whispering gallery effect. The GBC also has a "stage" on either end. where this effect could be utilized as it allows communication in a normal voice with someone 525 feet away.

https://roundme.com/tour/1160/view/2633

 

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42 minutes ago, Timothy said:

It just feels like you’re grasping at straws with this.

And the people here which are very knowledgeable on these subjects also again are not convinced by your opinions.

So, if a logical layman doesn’t see your point, and also the most knowledgeable persons here. It should offer you some hints.

You have many extremely bizarre ideas. That is a definite.

Is it still April 1st

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On 6/10/2019 at 10:19 AM, WVK said:
Temple of the Warriors   
   2) rattlesnake sound from colonnade (7) (8)

Sonic crystals are, I believe, considered a recent discovery.

http://personales.upv.es/~virogar1/Personal_web_page/Research_lines/Entradas/2013/7/3_Sonic_Crystal_Acoustic_Barriers.html

The Maya discovered this hundreds of years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z28YxbZW00o

 

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

Sonic crystals are, I believe, considered a recent discovery.

http://personales.upv.es/~virogar1/Personal_web_page/Research_lines/Entradas/2013/7/3_Sonic_Crystal_Acoustic_Barriers.html

The Maya discovered this hundreds of years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z28YxbZW00o

 

Huh? WVK you do realize that the Temple of Warriors didn't actually look like a bunch of pillars standing alone when it was built?

rf-ci-temple-warriors-2.jpg

The roof and other structures rotted away over a thousand years ago

Chichen_Itza-Temple_of_Warriors_closeup2

Chichen_Itza-Temple_of_Warriors_wire.jpg

 

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The staircase produces the quetzal chirp part, the colonnade the rattlesnake part  A single hand clap while standing in front and facing the TotW staircase produces both. 

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4 hours ago, WVK said:

The staircase produces the quetzal chirp part, the colonnade the rattlesnake part  A single hand clap while standing in front and facing the TotW staircase produces both. 

Probably not with the roof on and the paint covering the stone - but no way to check.

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8 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Probably not with the roof on and the paint covering the stone - but no way to check.

Is it possible the the interior ceiling was plastered?* That would enhance the effect the effect.  

*https://santacruzarchitect.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/they-built-their-own-demise-lime-mortar-render-and-plaster-what-role-in-the-decline-of-classical-mayan-civilization/

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

Maybe the Maya plastered and painted many but not all of their buildings - some were just painted - it depended on the time period, king and which city. How do you know it would 'enhance the effect'?  If you're interested you can look up the characteristics of limestone plaster and see if it reflects sound better than plain limestone.

I would recommend you read this book or contact the author . If I recalled she spoke a great deal about plaster.

61c+UJJy4uL._SX406_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://anth.la.psu.edu/people/ste

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On 6/11/2019 at 9:10 AM, WVK said:

Because I would like to know if the effect was intentional, if not was it noticed and if noticed used

...but you’ve clearly made up your mind the effect was intentional and used, because you’re either ignoring or confrontational with anyone who disagrees with you.

I think what you want is the credit and praise for your “discovery.”

—Jaylemurph 

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