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Maya acoustics: Chichen Itza


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2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Trying to show me youtube videos does not constitute evidence.  Videos are easily faked.  I'd like to see something of more substance.

I believe he is responding based on his scripted answers collect all the other times he's run the same information on other boards. He's probably bored with his own stuff so just throws websites at all questions which he has seen before multiple times.

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10 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Well having worked at CI in the 70's during the summer months for three years I can tell you they - the buildings - are modified from the originals, some a lot some not much - it depended on luck, what the Spanish modified (they used the Castillo as a fort if i recall) not intentionally but in many cases the archaeologists, Mexican officials and engineers had to make due - they didn't have plans or anything...and very little money.

I transferred to Bronze age Cyprus studies  in the 80's. Then to other careers but have always kept my hand in - as it were.

The quetzal chirp is present in the unrestored staircase El Castillo albeit weaker. 

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7 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Trying to show me youtube videos does not constitute evidence.  Videos are easily faked.  I'd like to see something of more substance.

More evidence that the colonnade forms a sonic crystal?  

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19 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Yes, and after your assumption about free-standing pillars in front of the temple, I imagine you’re keenly aware of that. 

—Jaylemurph 

Whats your point

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

The quetzal chirp is present in the unrestored staircase El Castillo albeit weaker. 

Lol - please tell us how you know its 'unrestored' WVK? - you wanna take few minutes to look up what the El Castilo looked like before it was restored?

a4490bf5109bc5c5dcd96f957d5d678b.jpg

Does it still look like this?

Screen+Shot+2016-03-19+at+7.51.07+AM.png

IMG_0749.JPG

Do some research WVK.

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

More evidence that the colonnade forms a sonic crystal?  

Do they have a roof? Are you still pretending they didn't?

Dude you really need to read this book:

THE TEMPLE OF THE WARRIORS - The adventure of Exploring and Restoring a Masterpiece of Native American Architecture in the Ruined Maya City of Chichen Itza, Yucatan, ASIN: B000J9Z10G, Charles Scribner's Sons; 1st edition (1931)

Edited by Hanslune
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7 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Due they have a roof? Are you still pretending they didn't?

Tell how a roof on the colonnade would negate the effect.

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7 minutes ago, WVK said:

Tell how a roof on the colonnade would negate the effect.

Tell how a roof on the colonnade wouldn't negate the effect. Your theory dude you do your own work. It's clear you have no idea how the ToW was restored. Sad

Edited by Hanslune
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30 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Lol - please tell us how you know its 'unrestored' WVK? - you wanna take few minutes to look up what the El Castilo looked like before it was restored?

a4490bf5109bc5c5dcd96f957d5d678b.jpg

Does it still look like this?

Screen+Shot+2016-03-19+at+7.51.07+AM.png

IMG_0749.JPG

Do some research WVK.

The sound is the result of the geometry  Are you suggesting that the as-built geometry was different than restored?  So it's possible that there may have been more or less that 91 stairs per side tilted at a different angle? That it now represents a Mayan calander was an accident of reconstruction?

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24 minutes ago, WVK said:

The sound is the result of the geometry  Are you suggesting that the as-built geometry was different than restored?  So it's possible that there may have been more or less that 91 stairs per side tilted at a different angle? That it now represents a Mayan calander was an accident of reconstruction?

Are you suggesting it was restored exactly as designed? Please show us your evidence for this. The Temple of Warriors wasn't restored like the original. They did not replace the wooden roof. Please show your extensive study that proves having a wooden roof over stone pillars - some reconstructed -  would have no affect at all on a sound.............chuckle.

 I see you are trying to avoid the elephant in the room:

THE TEMPLE OF THE WARRIORS - The adventure of Exploring and Restoring a Masterpiece of Native American Architecture in the Ruined Maya City of Chichen Itza, Yucatan, ASIN: B000J9Z10G, Charles Scribner's Sons; 1st edition (1931)

....again have you read this? Yes or no will do.

 

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Just now, Hanslune said:

So you now agree that your previous declaration, to wit: "The quetzal chirp is present in the unrestored staircase El Castillo albeit weaker." Was wrong...... 

 

Say what?

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5 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Are you suggesting it was restored exactly as designed? Please show us your evidence for this. The Temple of Warriors wasn't restored like the original. They did not replace the wooden roof. Please show your extensive study that proves having a wooden roof over stone pillars - some reconstructed -  would have no affect at all on a sound.............chuckle.

 B000J9Z10G, Charles Scribner's Sons; 1st edition (1931)

....again have you read this? Yes or no will do.

 

Were those ceiling plastered?

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4 minutes ago, WVK said:

Say what?

It was restored - playing you don't understand stuff isn't going to work either WVK.

In the end you will be right back where you staredt - with an idea but no way to prove whether it was intentional or an accident.

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2 minutes ago, WVK said:

Were those ceiling plastered?

You tell me - its your idea - haven't you done the research?

You seem to be constantly try to throw the burden of proof back at those wanting YOU to providence evidence.

Did you read that book? I'll take your constant running away from the question as meaning you haven't and probably never heard of it.

I mean if you are going to make stuff up about a Mayan ruin why read about or try to understand it and especially avoid any mention of how and why it was restored....

 

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Just now, WVK said:

Are you suggesting it was restored exactly as designed?

As long as the staircase is in the ballpark and periodicity of the colonade is intact it's good to go

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5 minutes ago, WVK said:

As long as the staircase is in the ballpark and periodicity of the colonade is intact it's good to go

Sure it is, sure it is , just keep repeating that to yourself.

Remember the best way to prove something is to know as little about it as you can!!!

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3 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

You tell me - its your idea - haven't you done the research?

You seem to be constantly try to throw the burden of proof back at those wanting YOU to providence evidence.

Did you read that book? I'll take your constant running away from the question as meaning you haven't and probably never heard of it.

I mean if you are going to make stuff up about a Mayan ruin why read about or try to understand it and especially avoid any mention of how and why it was restored....

The rattlesnake echo is  strong in it's current ruined condition. I doubt that  ceiling material degrade that 

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10 minutes ago, WVK said:

The rattlesnake echo is  strong in it's current ruined condition. I doubt that  ceiling material degrade that 

Its fun and easier to deny evidence you don't like isn't it WVK?

Now that  you've switched to self-congratulations and self-vindication - are we done now?

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7 minutes ago, WVK said:

The rattlesnake echo is  strong in it's current ruined condition. I doubt that  ceiling material degrade that 

As a corollary, if you will, the history of the so-called Colossus of Memnon and its temporary phonic phenomenon may relate.  One of the colossi, extant for over a milennium, gained its singing sound at sunrise (due to the daily rising of temperature and humidity) only after an earthquake in the first century BCE caused a crack in the monolith.  It became famous and a mythology of its phonic 'purpose' grew around it until in the second century CE the Roman emperor Septimus Severus restored the stone and the singing stopped.

Ruined and (partly) restored, the Mayan site most likely has, like the Colossus did temporarily, accrued some phonic phenomena that were never there initially.  Unless some epigraphic or textual evidence can be presented which points to the phenomenon being present during the Mayan age, the sound produced today cannot be verified as original.

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22 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

As a corollary, if you will, the history of the so-called Colossus of Memnon and its temporary phonic phenomenon may relate.  One of the colossi, extant for over a milennium, gained its singing sound at sunrise (due to the daily rising of temperature and humidity) only after an earthquake in the first century BCE caused a crack in the monolith.  It became famous and a mythology of its phonic 'purpose' grew around it until in the second century CE the Roman emperor Septimus Severus restored the stone and the singing stopped.

Ruined and (partly) restored, the Mayan site most likely has, like the Colossus did temporarily, accrued some phonic phenomena that were never there initially.  Unless some epigraphic or textual evidence can be presented which points to the phenomenon being present during the Mayan age, the sound produced today cannot be verified as original.

Good example. It is always hard to determine at disturbed sites if the ancients builders meant something to happen/show/occur or is it something that results from its degradation or something we moderns see and the ancients didn't, or it was accident of construction. One way to determine this is to see if they repeated it or constructed variants - if it was important they would duplicate it. However for sacred reasons they might not do so.

So all one can do is speculate and never really know.

 

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5 hours ago, WVK said:

More evidence that the colonnade forms a sonic crystal?  

I would first like to see evidence that a colonnade is a crystal, because I see no evidence that the structure is a crystal.  I know a bit about geology and crystals and their shapes and properties and I see nothing that indicates these are crystals.  Please present your evidence that they're crystals.

And then I'd like to see evidence that it actually has "sonic crystal properties" - a definition of what these are (because your interpretation seems to be somewhat different than the technical interpretation I found in the article... which is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterial) and how this is different from setting up a line of tree trunks or ordinary rock columns just like that.  Judging from your loose interpretation, I could probably have a line of humans stand there with shields and it would presumably count.  So I'd like to see evidence that these columns you indicate form spectral gaps "two orders of magnitude smaller than the wavelength of sound" (to quote the definition) and which frequencies these are supposed to be tuned for (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterial#Sonic_crystals

As to colonnades, there are countless structures of this sort around the world, from churches to public buildings and more.  There are various sound properties and there's not a lot of evidence that they're put in for sonic reasons rather than aesthetic or structural reasons.  So I'd like to see some of the math there. 

To date, you've simply shown a video that answers none of this and linked to pages that simply ignore these points by authors who don't actually seem to know what a sonic metamaterial is.  I'd like to see them addressed.

 

Edited by Kenemet
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4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I would first like to see evidence that a colonnade is a crystal, because I see no evidence that the structure is a crystal.  I know a bit about geology and crystals and their shapes and properties and I see nothing that indicates these are crystals.  Please present your evidence that they're crystals.

Sonic crystal has nothing to do within geology, it's physics

 

4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

As to colonnades, there are countless structures of this sort around the world, from churches to public buildings and more.  There are various sound properties and there's not a lot of evidence that they're put in for sonic reasons rather than aesthetic or structural reasons.  So I'd like to see some of the mat

These happens to be tuned to rattlesnake,  Note the  feathered rattlesnake piers at the top. 

"According to ancient Maya beliefs, Kukulkan was the god of wind, sky and the Sun.  He was a supreme leader of the gods and depicted, just like Quetzalcoatl as a combination of a snake rattlesnake from the quetzal bird.  Kukulkan gave mankind his learning and laws. He was very merciful and kind, but he could also change his nature and inflict great punishment and suffering on humans."

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/02/07/kukulkan-feathered-serpent-and-mighty-mayan-snake-god/

 

http://research.famsi.org/uploads/schele/hires/07/IMG0075.jpg

 

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