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Maya acoustics: Chichen Itza


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21 hours ago, WVK said:

Like this?

"") There was a circle of stone on the ground in the middle of a long ball court. When you stood on it the person standing on a similar circle at the head of the court (in the king's "booth") you can converse with that person as if they were a few feet away. The volume and clarity was startling considering that the stones were far apart (like 60+ meters). Very uncanny even by modem standards. I heard it for myself.

https://tomzap.com/sounds.html

I don't think that tis refers to GBC as there in no circle of stone there AFAIK

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On 6/18/2019 at 6:17 PM, Hanslune said:

How many images did you find of Maya priests clapping? What sort of echo do you get from a Maya drum, horn and flute (maybe not on that flute) at those sites?

The priest need not clap in GBC, simply speak, like the Caracol.. I repeat myself because no response. Do you agree or disagree?

"6. Conclusions

Once the more technical content is exposed in relation to what we think is a representative example, it seems important to take up some considerations of a general nature.

We have mentioned several examples of acoustic effects that are heard in archaeological sites, particularly Mayan sites, and recalled some of the studies that have been done in this regard. Several examples were given that show that the Mayans gave great importance to acoustics. The basic conclusion is that there is much to be done and that the study must be done from different scientific and humanistic points of view. In the scientific part it is essential to adopt different approaches: analytical, asymptotic and numerical, in addition, of course, the experimental, since none of them in isolation can provide a complete understanding of a phenomenon. The simulation presented, together with the previous discussion, suggests a series of experiments to be carried out, as well as diverse questions and hypotheses that would have to be contrasted and validated or refuted in the light of an archaeological analysis. The panorama is, in our opinion, that of an extraordinarily rich and interesting field, in which the immense majority of the work is yet to be done."

 

 

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9 minutes ago, WVK said:

The priest need not clap in GBC, simply speak, like the Caracol.. I repeat myself because no response. Do you agree or disagree?

"6. Conclusions

Once the more technical content is exposed in relation to what we think is a representative example, it seems important to take up some considerations of a general nature.

We have mentioned several examples of acoustic effects that are heard in archaeological sites, particularly Mayan sites, and recalled some of the studies that have been done in this regard. Several examples were given that show that the Mayans gave great importance to acoustics. The basic conclusion is that there is much to be done and that the study must be done from different scientific and humanistic points of view. In the scientific part it is essential to adopt different approaches: analytical, asymptotic and numerical, in addition, of course, the experimental, since none of them in isolation can provide a complete understanding of a phenomenon. The simulation presented, together with the previous discussion, suggests a series of experiments to be carried out, as well as diverse questions and hypotheses that would have to be contrasted and validated or refuted in the light of an archaeological analysis. The panorama is, in our opinion, that of an extraordinarily rich and interesting field, in which the immense majority of the work is yet to be done."

 

 

I already responded to that in post #192

So, how many images did you find of Maya priests clapping? What sort of echo do you get from a Maya drum, horn and flute (maybe not on that flute) at those sites?

 

Edited by Hanslune
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On 6/18/2019 at 5:23 PM, jaylemurph said:

It sort of highlights the absurdity of this whole thread, when a white person with no relevant knowledge of another culture purports to tell us all that culture was “really” doing with its architecture. 

Yet this white man agrees with this Person of Indigenous Culture. so it ain't me, it's y'all who are guilty. 

 

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4 minutes ago, WVK said:

Yet this white man agrees with this Person of Indigenous Culture. so it ain't me, it's y'all who are guilty. 

 

So more repeating of the same stuff. Until the research is done (you obviously aren't going to do it) intention by the Maya remains unknown.

Edited by Hanslune
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2 minutes ago, WVK said:

Yes or no?

Read the answer. That's it

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1 hour ago, Harte said:

The above could still only be an indication that they merely noticed the effect and then established the iconography to indicate it.

It would still be no argument that the effect was purposefully built into the design.

Harte

True.  But if it's in multiple places and the place is marked, then it means they did notice it and it had some sort of use or significance.

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3 hours ago, WVK said:

"In addition, all the reflections from the parallel walls of the ball court are first reflections, that is, they have a difference in arrival of less than 35 milliseconds with respect to the direct signal and therefore help the sound reinforcement of the message.

The fact that the walls surrounding the north and south temple are less than the parallel walls of the court, prevent the rays that fall in this area from the north temple or the south temple are returned or reflected to the court, thus avoiding unwanted reflections and therefore interference."

https://www.acusticaweb.com/acustica-arquitectonica/blog/acca-arquitecta/artlo-especial-sobre-la-acca-de-chichen-itz.html

 

This isn't about quetzal chirps or rattlesnakes or the Temple of the Warriros.  That was the soundscape I was discussing.  Bringing in other architecture doesn't prove anything about chirps or rattles since the sounds (whispering) aren't even related to chirps and whispering.

So.... back to the point I originally made in this discussion and that was never actually answered:  How many other sites show chirps/rattles in areas where the architecture has been COMPLETELY RESTORED and where there is some sort of mark that shows where exactly you stand for the effect?

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5 hours ago, WVK said:

Yet this white man agrees with this Person of Indigenous Culture. so it ain't me, it's y'all who are guilty. 

 

There are dip**** natives, too. I don’t think Piney would give me any flak for that. 

—Jaylemurph 

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2 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

There are dip**** natives, too. I don’t think Piney would give me any flak for that. 

When it comes to archaeology, anthropology and general museum help. There are a lot of dip**** Natives. 

I don't think @Swede would disagree. :yes:

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18 hours ago, Kenemet said:

So.... back to the point I originally made in this discussion and that was never actually answered:  How many other sites show chirps/rattles in areas where the architecture has been COMPLETELY RESTORED and where there is some sort of mark that shows where exactly you stand for the effect?

The idea that culturally significant acoustic effects in multiple location at different sites are simply the results of of semi ruined condition is absurd 

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

The idea that culturally significant acoustic effects in multiple location at different sites are simply the results of of semi ruined condition is absurd 

The sounds don’t sound as significant as you’re claiming they sound. 

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7 minutes ago, WVK said:

How so?

The clips you’re posting aren’t impressive, or more importantly they don’t audibly sound like what you’re claiming.

There are echoes, yes. The sounds are manipulated as physics will tell us. There are some rich tones. But they don’t really sound like what you’re claiming.

Coincidence rather than intended coherence. 

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Just now, Timothy said:

The clips you’re posting aren’t impressive, or more importantly they don’t audibly sound like what you’re claiming.

The audio from cell phone is marginal as I stated. Before jumping to conclusions I would suggest  experiencing the effects in in person, like the Maya did

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11 minutes ago, WVK said:

The audio from cell phone is marginal as I stated. Before jumping to conclusions I would suggest  experiencing the effects in in person, like the Maya did

Okay, I’ll just hop into my time machine to experience the effects like the Maya did...

See the issue we have? 

Again; if myself (just a reasonably intelligent logical person (subject to opinion)) and others (who are well learned on these subjects and probably more intelligent (I personally am appalled at that idea, the intelligence bit)) don’t see what you’re proposing, then it’s on you to convince us.

Please provide some tangible reasoning as to what you’re proposing. 

Audio from a cell phone isn’t the issue. Newer mobile phones can have quite reasonable recording microphones. 

I’m using an iPhone 7plus. The audio recording is surprisingly good. And it’s years old. 

Also, the tour guide in that clip is obviously just selling it to the tourists.

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3 minutes ago, WVK said:

The audio from cell phone is marginal as I stated. Before jumping to conclusions I would suggest  experiencing the effects in in person, like the Maya did

For example have a person in each temples of the GBC converse then place youself out in the area between the walls.  That conversation will sound as if they were right next to you. Uncanny . Recording don't capture this.

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2 minutes ago, WVK said:

For example have a person in each temples of the GBC converse then place youself out in the area between the walls.  That conversation will sound as if they were right next to you. Uncanny . Recording don't capture this.

(Unsure why my text was so large in my previous post. Unintended.)

Recording should capture it, if it’s actually happening. Otherwise it’s just you telling me that. Has anyone been able to document it? 

I’m still sceptical. 

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40 minutes ago, Timothy said:

 

Recording should capture it, if it’s actually happening. Otherwise it’s just you telling me that. Has anyone been able to document it? 

 

It's more than sound. It's experiencing a conversation that sounds up close and personal, dry clear acoustic, and non-directional. As you are experiencing this phononoma your head will will swing around eyes trying to locate the source but none to be found .  In my case the field was nearly empty an no one was anywhere near me.  I don't know about you but to me disembodied voices are strange.  To be appreciated it must be experienced full scale.

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6 minutes ago, WVK said:

It's more than sound. It's experiencing a conversation that sounds up close and personal, dry clear acoustic, and non-directional. As you are experiencing this phononoma your head will will swing around eyes trying to locate the source but none to be found .  In my case the field was nearly empty an no one was anywhere near me.  I don't know about you but to me disembodied voices are strange.  To be appreciated it must be experienced full scale.

This is a common and well-known physical affect of - wait for it - stone walls and those pesky echoes. Called the whispering gallery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering_gallery

 

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11 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

This is a common and well-known physical affect of - wait for it - stone walls and those pesky echoes. Called the whispering gallery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering_gallery

 

The GBC is unique among whispering galleries as nothing is curved. So what are other whispering gallery, designed for ceremony, equiped with end temple for where you can have a conversation in a normal voice ?

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

The GBC is unique among whispering galleries as nothing is curved. So what are other whispering gallery, designed for ceremony, equiped with end temple for where you can have a conversation in a normal voice ?

Was it intentional - it always comes back to the question you don't want to hear. Were the other whispering galleries designed for that use of is it an unintended occurrence? Maybe you should find out?

Quote

The GBC is unique among whispering galleries as nothing is curved

It doesn't need to be curved it needs to have an angle and you might want to look at the lower walls are the straight or angled?

1429.jpg?v=1559542432

So  over and over again you show chronic astonishment at echoes but never touch on the important question  - and probably never will - was it intentional.

Edited by Hanslune
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4 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Were the other whispering galleries designed for that use of is it an unintended occurrence? Maybe you should find out?

I have their unintended.  

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2 minutes ago, WVK said:

I have their unintended.  

??

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