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Maya acoustics: Chichen Itza


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1 hour ago, WVK said:

Sonic crystal has nothing to do within geology, it's physics.

You are the one applying this to geology. The columns are stone.

Harte

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2 hours ago, WVK said:

Sonic crystal has nothing to do within geology, it's physics.

"Sonic crystals" are an artificial construct:

A ‘sonic crystal’ is an artificial crystal of a finite-size periodic array composed of sonic scatterers embedded in a homogeneous host material...

http://materias.df.uba.ar/labo5a2013v/files/2012/07/reviewCS.pdf

Given that the lithic materials involved in the structure construction are of natural derivation, your entire "argument" is incorrect and poorly researched.

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7 minutes ago, WVK said:

No! The crystal in sonic crystal has nothing to do with stone crystals.  

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022460X05004803

1) The vegetal material does not consist of "sonic crystals", as is apparent in the article.

2) Yes, a tree-line can attenuate noise levels. How profound.

3) The site materials are not composed of vegetal materials.

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7 minutes ago, WVK said:

So is a colonnade

But constructed of locally available lithic materials. Your entire "sonic crystal" "argument" is the result of a distinct lack of research and understanding.

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4 minutes ago, Swede said:

1) The vegetal material does not consist of "sonic crystals", as is apparent in the article.

2) Yes, a tree-line can attenuate noise levels. How profound.

3) The site materials are not composed of vegetal materials..

.

Are you serious?  

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32 minutes ago, WVK said:

Are you serious?  

As serious as one need be when addressing unsupportable speculations. Though it may be advisable to pay attention to the actual data.

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4 hours ago, WVK said:

Sonic crystal has nothing to do within geology, it's physics

Yes, and no. "Sonic" is physics.  "Crystal" is chemistry, and this includes geochemistry.  You can't just pick a random object and call it a crystal.  Crystals have specific properties (uniform composition, geometrically regular shape, and flat plane faces (as defined many, many times over.)  You have not demonstrated that these structures are crystals.

The paper you link specifically says the properties are of crystals only.  The columns you indicate are not a single chemical composition, as far as I can tell.  Do you have any evidence that they are crystals and that the raw substance for these columns grows in a geometric shape with flat plane faces in regular angles?

Quote

These happens to be tuned to rattlesnake,  Note the  feathered rattlesnake piers at the top. 

"According to ancient Maya beliefs, Kukulkan was the god of wind, sky and the Sun.  He was a supreme leader of the gods and depicted, just like Quetzalcoatl as a combination of a snake rattlesnake from the quetzal bird.  Kukulkan gave mankind his learning and laws. He was very merciful and kind, but he could also change his nature and inflict great punishment and suffering on humans."

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/02/07/kukulkan-feathered-serpent-and-mighty-mayan-snake-god/

http://research.famsi.org/uploads/schele/hires/07/IMG0075.jpg

But the Temple of the Warriors isn't dedicated to Kukulkan and the columns that someone's gleefully clapping around were topped by wooden lintels, which changes the soundscape considerably.  In addition, the column "forest" was roofed over during the time it was being used: http://chichenitzaruins.org/places/temple-of-the-warriors/  That means that what you hear now is not what the priests heard back then.

By the way, you can see from the photos in the article that the columns are very clearly NOT crystals.. and in addition they're made up of blocks that are near the same size but not exactly the same size.  So they can't be "sonic crystals"

Acoustics in an unfinished/partly destroyed structure are not evidence of acoustics and usage of sound in a finished structure.

Edited by Kenemet
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2 hours ago, WVK said:

No! The crystal in sonic crystal has nothing to do with stone crystals.  

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022460X05004803

The columns are stone.

Harte

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2 hours ago, WVK said:

So is a colonnade

So is a roach clip.

Harte

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37 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

By the way, you can see from the photos in the article that the columns are very clearly NOT crystals.. and in addition they're made up of blocks that are near the same size but not exactly the same size.  So they can't be "sonic crystals"

Go tell that to the physics professor I discussed this with. It was he how said "sonic crystal"  .

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20 minutes ago, WVK said:

Go tell that to the physics professor I discussed this with. It was he how said "sonic crystal"  .

Did you tell him it was limestone?  Or did you tell him it was a crystal?  Did you show him a picture of what you're calling a "crystal"?  If he says it's a crystal, what was his explanation of the non-regular properties of sedimentary stone compared with the rigorous definition posted in the paper?

Please do ask.  I'm quite curious.  

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2 hours ago, WVK said:

Go tell that to the physics professor I discussed this with. It was he how said "sonic crystal"  .

We don't believe you talk to "Physics" professors about this or anything else VonKoch.

Harte

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2 hours ago, Harte said:

We don't believe you talk to "Physics" professors about this or anything else VonKoch.

Harte

The science value of this thread has gone into negative numbers but the comedy value is climbing.

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7 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Did you tell him it was limestone?  Or did you tell him it was a crystal?  Did you show him a picture of what you're calling a "crystal"?  If he says it's a crystal, what was his explanation of the non-regular properties of sedimentary stone compared with the rigorous definition posted in the paper? 

Didn't need too, he was the author of one of the papers I cited.

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If you peruse the papers you've linked, you should realize that if the columns in question operate like a sonic crystal, then there would be no echo from them.

Harte

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9 hours ago, WVK said:

Didn't need too, he was the author of one of the papers I cited.

which one - who is this fine fellow or gal?

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4 minutes ago, Harte said:

If you peruse the papers you've linked, you should realize that if the columns in question operate like a sonic crystal, then there would be no echo from them.

Harte

....oh no, you aren't suggesting he read the papers he cites? You skeptical monster!!!

Here is the conclusion for that fine paper:

Quote
Measurements have shown that tree belts are able to attenuate certain bands of frequencies with
more effectiveness if they are arranged in a lattice configuration (at low frequencies). The
structures built up in this shape present behaviour typical of sonic crystals, the level of attenuation
obtained depends on the filling fraction, and the position of the attenuation peaks obtained along
Fig. 3. Comparison between the experimental attenuation spectrum obtained with a multiple periodic rows lattice
made with laurel and the values obtained by Maekawa (see Ref. [13]). The multiple periodic rows lattice had 5 rows, it
was 3.5 m wide and the lattice constant was 0.75 m.
 
R. Martınez-Sala et al. / Journal of Sound and Vibration 291 (2006) 100–106 105
 
 
 
 
 
 
a certain range of frequencies depends on the type of lattice used as well as the angle of incidence
at which the sound strikes the barrier.Sonic crystals can be created using trees as scattering centres and the location of the attenuation
peaks appear as Bragg’s law predicts.These two conclusions would suggest that the pattern in which trees are planted could be a
factor to take into account when considering the sound attenuation produced by a group of trees,as well as the type of tree, ground surface and the width of the tree barrier.
 
Finally, it would seem that the most effective way of creating sonic crystals from trees as noise reducing devices, while at the same time respecting the area needed for the natural growth of trees,
would be multiple periodic rows. This use of one-dimensional arrays produces attenuation peaksat low frequencies with a small width of belt.However, this is the first time trees have been used as scatterers in sonic crystals and further
investigation is required to optimise the attenuation of these belts, varying some factors such asthe type of array or the species of trees chosen. In conclusion, we think that it would be possible to
build a new type of ecological noise screen, using trees.

Hmmmm, what are the odds he will now disown this paper and say its the wrong one?

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13 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Hmmmm, what are the odds he will now disown this paper and say its the wrong one?

Why do you think I didn't quote from it?

I was just spooling out a little more line when you struck..

Harte

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1 hour ago, Harte said:

Why do you think I didn't quote from it?

I was just spooling out a little more line when you struck..

Harte

Oh sorry - my apologies I didn't realize you had a lure out!

Hopefully my error will not result in the USA being destroyed by International communism

k6vTOjs.jpg

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1 hour ago, Harte said:

If you peruse the papers you've linked, you should realize that if the columns in question operate like a sonic crystal, then there would be no echo from them.

Harte

But there is. 

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6 minutes ago, WVK said:

But there is. 

Which means?

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