Maya acoustics: Chichen Itza

[Kenemet]

13 hours ago, WVK said:

Didn't need too, he was the author of one of the papers I cited.

Then he should know that limestone isn't a crystal.  Did you tell him it was limestone?  Send a photo?  Did he see the size?

[Kenemet]

On 6/16/2019 at 5:55 PM, WVK said:

No! The crystal in sonic crystal has nothing to do with stone crystals.  

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022460X05004803

Yes, the "crystal" in "Sonic crystals" has to do with real crystals.  The paper says that trees planted in a certain pattern ACT LIKE a sonic crystal and block noise. 

Blocked noise isn't going to create a rattlesnake sound.  That has to do with echoes rebounding.  But that sound is created without the roof on that area of the temple.  So again... no proof that it's an intentional thing and there's no markers showing an association with rattlesnakes.

[Piney]

10 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Yes, the "crystal" in "Sonic crystals" has to do with real crystals.  The paper says that trees planted in a certain pattern ACT LIKE a sonic crystal and block noise. 

Blocked noise isn't going to create a rattlesnake sound.  That has to do with echoes rebounding.  But that sound is created without the roof on that area of the temple.  So again... no proof that it's an intentional thing and there's no markers showing an association with rattlesnakes.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20186-how-to-build-a-sonic-crystal/

I just posted this for him in the thread he started in the Sci-Tech subforum. 

 

[Kenemet]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20186-how-to-build-a-sonic-crystal/

I just posted this for him in the thread he started in the Sci-Tech subforum. 

 

I'm confused.  Why are they calling this a "crystal" ... when it isn't?  I can see them calling it a "structure" or "callithumpus" or something else... but "crystal"?

[Hanslune]

7 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I'm confused.  Why are they calling this a "crystal" ... when it isn't?  I can see them calling it a "structure" or "callithumpus" or something else... but "crystal"?

...because it sounds kool?

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

I'm confused.  Why are they calling this a "crystal" ... when it isn't?  I can see them calling it a "structure" or "callithumpus" or something else... but "crystal"?

Is a kallithumpus the prettier version of a regular thumpus?

—Jaylemurph 

[WVK]

11 hours ago, Kenemet said:

there's no markers showing an association with rattlesnakes.

Do the huge feathered rattlesnake statues at the top count?

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, WVK said:

Do the huge feathered rattlesnake statues at the top count?

...and how do limestone pillars become crystals?

[WVK]

3 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

.and how do limestone pillars become crystals?

Secret Maya Magic. Do youi disagree with this?

6. Conclusions

Once the more technical content is exposed in relation to what we think is a representative example, it seems important to take up some considerations of a general nature.

We have mentioned several examples of acoustic effects that are heard in archaeological sites, particularly Mayan sites, and recalled some of the studies that have been done in this regard. Several examples were given that show that the Mayans gave great importance to acoustics. The basic conclusion is that there is much to be done and that the study must be done from different scientific and humanistic points of view. In the scientific part it is essential to adopt different approaches: analytical, asymptotic and numerical, in addition, of course, the experimental, since none of them in isolation can provide a complete understanding of a phenomenon. The simulation presented, together with the previous discussion, suggests a series of experiments to be carried out, as well as diverse questions and hypotheses that would have to be contrasted and validated or refuted in the light of an archaeological analysis. The panorama is, in our opinion, that of an extraordinarily rich and interesting field, in which the immense majority of the work is yet to be done.

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?pid=S0185-25742008000200003&script=sci_arttext

 

[Hanslune]

6 minutes ago, WVK said:

Secret Maya Magic. Do youi disagree with this?

6. Conclusions

Once the more technical content is exposed in relation to what we think is a representative example, it seems important to take up some considerations of a general nature.

We have mentioned several examples of acoustic effects that are heard in archaeological sites, particularly Mayan sites, and recalled some of the studies that have been done in this regard. Several examples were given that show that the Mayans gave great importance to acoustics. The basic conclusion is that there is much to be done and that the study must be done from different scientific and humanistic points of view. In the scientific part it is essential to adopt different approaches: analytical, asymptotic and numerical, in addition, of course, the experimental, since none of them in isolation can provide a complete understanding of a phenomenon. The simulation presented, together with the previous discussion, suggests a series of experiments to be carried out, as well as diverse questions and hypotheses that would have to be contrasted and validated or refuted in the light of an archaeological analysis. The panorama is, in our opinion, that of an extraordinarily rich and interesting field, in which the immense majority of the work is yet to be done.

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?pid=S0185-25742008000200003&script=sci_arttext

 

Do you agree that limestone isn't crystal?

[WVK]

22 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Do you agree that limestone isn't crystal?

So? 

[Hanslune]

51 minutes ago, WVK said:

So? 

 are you walking that back that claim now?

WVK we know you are reading from a script - I'm not playing your pre-set game.

Do you agree that limestone isn't crystal? This question will be repeated until answered. lol

Also

So in your idea if the front warriors are making a sound like a rattlesnake was is the second set of columns doing?

Edited June 18, 2019 by Hanslune

[Hanslune]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:47 PM, Kenemet said:

Trying to show me youtube videos does not constitute evidence.  Videos are easily faked.  I'd like to see something of more substance.

Howdy Kenemet: The proper response to being given youtube videos is this:

YT;DW

Youtube didn't watch

[Hanslune]

Let me make as simply as possible for WVK. What do you think you need to do to prove your case that it was intentional and somehow survived the reconstruction of the buildings in the 19th and 20th century:

1. repeat your claim as many times as possible.

2. Ignore all contra-evidence.

3. Conduct a thorough on site check of all Maya sites to see if other sites existed correlated by age and commonality of purpose, design, and construction.

[Kenemet]

4 hours ago, WVK said:

Do the huge feathered rattlesnake statues at the top count?

No.  Because there's no roofs on the temple at the top OR the area at the bottom (where there would have been roofing.)  In addition, the deity associated with warriors is Ek Chuaj (the "Black War Chief" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maya_gods_and_supernatural_beings#E), not Kukulkan.

Roofing changes the soundscape considerably... as you can see for yourself if you walk into an area with a ruined modern building.  If you stand around a modern ruined building and clap you get all sorts of echoes that weren't in the original buildings  

To prove that it was intentional, you have to show that the effect occurs in the temple as it originally stood and then show the archaeology and ethnography that links rattlesnakes with the warrior class.  You will also have to show that there's some sort of marker to show people where to stand (otherwise they wander around and miss the exact point during the ceremony and that would make the priests look silly.) 

Youtube videos don't count.

[Harte]

9 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I'm confused.  Why are they calling this a "crystal" ... when it isn't?  I can see them calling it a "structure" or "callithumpus" or something else... but "crystal"?

The lattice arrangement is like the similar arrangement of atoms in a crystal.

This is large scale for sound waves, but similar effects appear using light waves and actual crystalline lattices.

Harte

[WVK]

18 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

No.  Because there's no roofs on the temple at the top OR the area at the bottom (where there would have been roofing.)  In addition, the deity associated with warriors is Ek Chuaj (the "Black War Chief" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maya_gods_and_supernatural_beings#E), not Kukulkan.

Roofing changes the soundscape considerably... as you can see for yourself if you walk into an area with a ruined modern building.  If you stand around a modern ruined building and clap you get all sorts of echoes that weren't in the original buildings  

To prove that it was intentional, you have to show that the effect occurs in the temple as it originally stood and then show the archaeology and ethnography that links rattlesnakes with the warrior class.  You will also have to show that there's some sort of marker to show people where to stand (otherwise they wander around and miss the exact point during the ceremony and that would make the priests look silly.) 

Youtube videos don't count.

I agree with you.  

[WVK]

7 minutes ago, WVK said:

You will also have to show that there's some sort of marker to show people where to stand

Maybe maybe not. Having a marker the says "clap here" might take away for the magic. 

[Harte]

So it was a big secret that nobody else knew, even after observing it dozens of times.

Makes sense.

Harte

[Piney]

2 hours ago, WVK said:

 Having a marker the says "clap here" might take away for the magic. 

Having someone clap in front of you will do the same.....

[WVK]

48 minutes ago, Piney said:

Having someone clap in front of you will do the same.....

Maybe only the priests are allowed to clap  Failure to comply earn you a quick trip down the steps minus a heart.

[jaylemurph]

3 minutes ago, WVK said:

Maybe only the priests are allowed to clap  Failure to comply earn you a quick trip down the steps minus a heart.

Sigh. 

Did you bother to research Maya /culture/ at all, or did you merely study the architecture? 

Because I know what it looks like, and it looks like you have some holes in your background research. 

—Jaylemurph 

[WVK]

1 minute ago, jaylemurph said:

Sigh. 

Did you bother to research Maya /culture/ at all, or did you merely study the architecture? 

Because I know what it looks like, and it looks like you have some holes in your background research. 

—Jaylemurph 

What, Mayas don't clap?

[jaylemurph]

3 minutes ago, WVK said:

What, Mayas don't clap?

No, that human sacrifice amongst the Maya wasn’t punitive, and (except for funerary rituals) sacrifices weren’t drawn from the local community. 

—Jaylemurph 

[WVK]

2 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

No, that human sacrifice amongst the Maya wasn’t punitive, and (except for funerary rituals) sacrifices weren’t drawn from the local community. 

—Jaylemurph 

 it was a joke