German physicists to tackle EmDrive mystery

[UM-Bot]

Scientists in Germany have built a measurement device to determine if the enigmatic EmDrive actually works.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/328409/german-physicists-to-tackle-emdrive-mystery

[+OverSword]

I recall seeing an EM drive hooked up to a model of a boat in a small pool in a lab and it seemed to work.  I think they should just actually put one to the test by flying a small scale drive to the ISS and turn it on.

[Trihalo42]

EmDrive is cone shaped. The Biefeld-Brown drive, which has been dismissed as ionic wind, is supposed to be in a cone shape. The cone shape is important. Gravity is not a "curvature". That's a 2 dimensional analogy people have been stuck on. Some people simply do not comprehend more complex concepts and get stuck on simple analogies and assume that's how something actually works. Gravity is buoyancy. It's an alteration in the density of "space". The 2D analogy has it bending of the 2D plane, but in 3 dimensions it's an alteration in density. That cone shape of the electromagnetic field causes a difference in the density at each end.

I've read that when mister Brown started rotating his device the thrust became much stronger. I assume this creates some kind of eddies around the device which keeps the fluid medium of space from shifting around inside and stabilizes the effect. I've read that shortly after he published these results the military took an interest and he didn't appear in magazines anymore.

Why deny this device works? Rumor has it that if such a device were built from the right materials the power output would exceed the input, allowing it to be used as a free energy device. There are far easier ways to build free energy devices. Problem with free energy devices is not just the oil corporations, but some middle east countries getting most of their income from oil. Negate the need for oil and they won't be able to afford their military. They'll likely make one last desperate strike against their enemies and leave Israel a smoking hole in the ground. So if anyone has an interest in preventing free energy devices from becoming mainstream, it's Mossad.

Now what happens if a "benevolent" alien race shows up and wants to share their EmDrive technology and the free energy device they use to power it? They wouldn't have to fire a shot. Those barbaric humans would immediately try to kill each other for the reasons stated. Such a pity. And to stop such a massive war, the aliens would have to instate martial law to protect the humans from themselves. Now mine the gold slave.

[Rolci]

Amazing how long modern 21-century science takes to verify something extremely simple.

[pallidin]

It will be interesting to see how professional research evaluates the EM-drive.

 

[toast]

4 hours ago, pallidin said:

It will be interesting to see how professional research evaluates the EM-drive.

What?

Quote

... Martin Tajmar and colleagues of the SpaceDrive project in Germany ...

 

Quote

Martin Tajmar is a physicist and professor for Space Systems at the Dresden University of Technology.[1] He has research interests in advanced space propulsion systems, FEEP thrusters, breakthrough propulsion physics and possible connections between gravity and superconductivity.[2] (...) Tajmar completed his PhD in numerical plasmaphysics at the Vienna University of Technology, Austria, in 1999, and is now an external lecturer for the university.[3] He also published the textbook Advanced Space Propulsion Systems in 2003.

(...)

2001: ARC-Award of the Austrian Research Centers, first prize in the category Science [9]

2001 and 2000: “Window on Science” Award[10] of the US Air Force

1999: Promotion through the program „International Communication“[11] of the Austrian Research

 

]wiki

TU Dresden Chair of Space Systems

The SpaceDrive Project –First Results on EMDrive and Mach-Effect Thrusters

[Duke Wellington]

8 hours ago, Trihalo42 said:

EmDrive is cone shaped. The Biefeld-Brown drive, which has been dismissed as ionic wind, is supposed to be in a cone shape. The cone shape is important. Gravity is not a "curvature". That's a 2 dimensional analogy people have been stuck on. Some people simply do not comprehend more complex concepts and get stuck on simple analogies and assume that's how something actually works. Gravity is buoyancy. It's an alteration in the density of "space". The 2D analogy has it bending of the 2D plane, but in 3 dimensions it's an alteration in density. That cone shape of the electromagnetic field causes a difference in the density at each end.

I've read that when mister Brown started rotating his device the thrust became much stronger. I assume this creates some kind of eddies around the device which keeps the fluid medium of space from shifting around inside and stabilizes the effect. I've read that shortly after he published these results the military took an interest and he didn't appear in magazines anymore.

Why deny this device works? Rumor has it that if such a device were built from the right materials the power output would exceed the input, allowing it to be used as a free energy device. There are far easier ways to build free energy devices. Problem with free energy devices is not just the oil corporations, but some middle east countries getting most of their income from oil. Negate the need for oil and they won't be able to afford their military. They'll likely make one last desperate strike against their enemies and leave Israel a smoking hole in the ground. So if anyone has an interest in preventing free energy devices from becoming mainstream, it's Mossad.

Now what happens if a "benevolent" alien race shows up and wants to share their EmDrive technology and the free energy device they use to power it? They wouldn't have to fire a shot. Those barbaric humans would immediately try to kill each other for the reasons stated. Such a pity. And to stop such a massive war, the aliens would have to instate martial law to protect the humans from themselves. Now mine the gold slave.

Erm… just no.

The EM drive is a pressure drive where the pressure is generated by electro-magnetic radiation (microwaves). As the cone narrows wavelengths of EM radiation now too big to exist between its walls are excluded creating a pressure difference. That causes the cone to accelerate in the direction of its point.

It doesnt violate physics and what the scientists who claim so (in the badly written media article) arent taking into account is that space isn't a vacuum. It is full to the brim of EM radiation. Its like putting a empty plastic bottle into the ocean and watching the lack of water inside it cause it to bobble to the surface. Only the pressure is with EM radiation and the pointy cone controls the exclusion of EM wavelengths causing a form of propulsion in the direction of the point.

With the Biefeld-Brown experiments you need to get off YouTube and its conspiracy theories. Electrons have mass meaning they feel the force of gravity. Fast moving electrons warp gravity more than stationary ones. So if you charge up a capacitor dangling from two wires when it discharges you will notice the capacitor moves (stationary electrons on one plate discharging to the other creating a gravity difference).

[Rlyeh]

9 hours ago, Trihalo42 said:

Gravity is buoyancy.

Just no.

 

9 hours ago, Trihalo42 said:

Rumor has it that if such a device were built from the right materials the power output would exceed the input, allowing it to be used as a free energy device.

Rumor has it that if you break a mirror you get seven years bad luck.

 

9 hours ago, Trihalo42 said:

Now what happens if a "benevolent" alien race shows up and wants to share their EmDrive technology and the free energy device they use to power it? They wouldn't have to fire a shot. Those barbaric humans would immediately try to kill each other for the reasons stated. Such a pity. And to stop such a massive war, the aliens would have to instate martial law to protect the humans from themselves. Now mine the gold slave.

They could offer you free mental health services.

[It's Just An Opinion]

Cars don't run on gasoline alone, They also require water and electricity.

[It's Just An Opinion]

When Helium is cooled down enough it becomes a super-fluid. In this stage it can literally crawl up the inside of a cup, down along the outside, across the bottom, and back up the other-side into the cup again. because at this form it has practically no friction or in other words “zero viscosity”

The same way things out in space that are spun will spin forever (unless they are hit) Helium- (here on earth in its superfluid form) -will stir forever if it is stirred once.

So here http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread880365/pg1 a guy asks more or less: [why not use this to generate energy] and he gets the reply, more or less: because the amount of energy needed to cool it down to a super-fluid is greater than that which it would generate, however if you’re referring to in space then you’re onto something.

But now lets take a look at these facts:

For Helium to be cooled into a super-fluid it need to be 2 kelvin degrees above 0 kelvin.

Outer space is 2.7 Kelvin.

If you were to put superfluid Hellium inside a sealed glass container with as much thin surface area as possible like a cheesy saucer, with a wheel inside it being spun by magnets (from the very first spin alone: the fluid would be spinning itself forever, even if the magnets weren’t there) and even once it enters an atmosphere, because it’s a superfluid and it losses zero kinetic energy. Now the only thing it would need to maintain that cycle is enough energy to cool it by 0.7 which I’m sure is an easy thing for a magnetic wheel spinning in space to do.

The question is: would a fluid that losses zero friction even be able to turn a wheel? logic tells me it’ll just slide over it. But what if you were to be in deep space and use it’s own weight and gravity to spin itself. Since it’s a superfluid it spins perpetually without losing any kinetic energy from its motion even in an environment with gravity. So the motion of the magnets would only help it at cooling it down by 0.7 (and they wouldn’t lose any energy spinning inside the fluid, because it applies zero friction.

The spinning magnetic wheels would generate some energy. There will be coils collecting that energy, near these coils will be tubes that will heat up to at least room temperate or more to turn the helium into a gas. It will then rise up and enter tubes lining the surface area of the saucer. Where the low temperature of outer space will cool it down to near liquid form (but like I said it’s just a tad bit not cool enough) So the energy stored and saved from the wheels turning will power some form of AC to cool it further. Now as a liquid it will fall back down to the center of the saucer. As it falls the weight or motion of it will be used to generate even more energy, But for that to work the amount of superliquid helium at the center of it will have to be enough to weight more than whats holding it, of course so it’ll work as the center of gravity, so the weight of the structure won’t get in the way of that cycle too much.

[+and-then]

Good to know the Chermans are on zee case...

[Eldorado]

UPDATE: April 05, 2021

“We found out that the cause of the ‘thrust’ was a thermal effect," Tajmar told Grenzwissenschaft-Aktuell.de. "For our tests, we used NASA's EmDrive configuration from White et al. (which was used at the Eagleworks laboratories, because it is best documented and the results were published in the ‘Journal of Propulsion and Power’.

With the aid of a new measuring scale structure and different suspension points of the same engine, we were able to reproduce apparent thrust forces similar to those measured by the NASA-team, but also to make them disappear by means of a point suspension."

"When power flows into the EmDrive," he continued, "the engine warms up. This also causes the fastening elements on the scale to warp, causing the scale to move to a new zero point. We were able to prevent that in an improved structure. Our measurements refute all EmDrive claims by at least three orders of magnitude.”

https://newatlas.com/space/emdrive-dead-thrust-refuted/