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Black Red Devil

Can China and Russia be strategic partners?

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Black Red Devil

China and Russia's leaders say their countries are closer than they've ever been, and that's partly due to what they see as a common threat.

Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin's meeting in St Petersburg was a display of the strength of their relationship, and also a show of solidarity against the United States. link

 

Are they only going to be strategic business partners or military partners as well?  China has stretched its tentacles into the South China sea, has been making more proclaims towards Taiwan lately and is cracking down on Democratic freedom in Hong Kong.  It's also expanded its business interests into Africa in recent times.

Russia is becoming more involved in the Middle East and finding a lot of friends in Europe with recently elected majority right wing Govts in Hungary, Austria, Italy.  It also appears Le Pen's right wing Party, which has been making giant strides in France in the last few years, has had financial support from Russian Banks.

Maybe NATO wasn't a bad idea after all. :P

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Piney
31 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Maybe NATO wasn't a bad idea after all. :P

Ya think??? :lol:

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RavenHawk

Can China and Russia be strategic partners?  When haven't they?

If Putin is making many friends in Europe then maybe NATO wasn't such a good idea.

 

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OverSword

Neither nation can be trusted so this can only lead to hilarity. China steals, Russia lies and cheats. Best of friends. It’s actually probably a good idea for both that they are close so the can keep an eye on each other.

should this be in the us political section? No.

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and then

Is it just me or does Xi look like a hungry man pleased at seeing his next mealtime entre?  :w00t:  And for those who seem to think that seeing one or both of them take down the U.S. will be a good thing for the world... even when you win, you'll lose.  It's what losers do, I guess ;)  

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RavenHawk
7 minutes ago, and then said:

It's what losers do, I guess ;)  

But they don't see it that way.  As long as they are comfortable.  As long as they have control over their domain, the populace under their control supports the state and the state keeps them in power, as any good Socialist.

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Black Red Devil
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Can China and Russia be strategic partners?  When haven't they?

If Putin is making many friends in Europe then maybe NATO wasn't such a good idea.

 

NATO does cost money to the US, more than any other member nation, but there are benefits, strategic and financial, which are important for a country that wants to promote itself as economically and militarily the most powerful in the world and obviously important for those member nations because of the weapons at their disposal and the fact that more than half of the top 10 most powerful military nations in the world are part of NATO.  If Americans want to follow a President that pi$$es on all its allies because they don't dip in the same amount of penny's as the US, shows arrogance and superficiality towards a pact that has prevented a large scale war for 70 years, then so be it.  They should close all NATO military basis, kick out all American troops off their land and start spending more on their own military budget.  Some of these nations would definitely join in an alliance with the China/Russia partnership for strength (economic and military cooperation, not take-over Soviet style), others would opt to remain allies with the Americans despite Trump or because of him and some would sit on the fence.  Definitely the world would be a lot more unsafer and the Doomsday clock closer to midnight than ever before.

I doubt the NATO pact will dissolve despite Trumps attitude and negativity towards it but if he stays in office for another 5 years, following the trend described in the OP, the Putin/Xi partnership will definitely grow stronger and stronger, together with their nations, while Trump keeps wearing his MAGA cap and keeps taking it out on his closest nation friends and neighbors. :tu:

 

Edited by Black Red Devil

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and then
12 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Watch out if Erdog flips over to the Russians.  A story from two months ago.

Erdogan and Putin seek to deepen their military ties

Remember me talking about an alliance between Russia, Iran and Turkey - a couple of years ago?  This is old news.  It WILL happen.  It will be more remarkable when Iran (Shia) and Turkey (Sunni) unite strategically to go against Israel but that TOO, will happen.  Amazing what one can learn from a book of fairy stories, innit?  

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Black Red Devil
5 hours ago, and then said:

Remember me talking about an alliance between Russia, Iran and Turkey - a couple of years ago?  This is old news.  It WILL happen.  It will be more remarkable when Iran (Shia) and Turkey (Sunni) unite strategically to go against Israel but that TOO, will happen.  Amazing what one can learn from a book of fairy stories, innit?  

The only one that gives Israel any importance is you, the Pali's for obvious reasons and Iran because Netanyahu keeps pushing the US to conduct actions against them.  Why would Turkey and Russia care about Israel?  Iran wouldn't dare attack because they are surrounded by US basis.  It would be suicide and I doubt Russia would run to their defense and risk the lives of their soldiers if the Iranians started the war. 

Get over it man, your prophecies were good bedtime stories, similar to Nostradamus, where you can read and twist meanings in what's written at will, but time to get back to reality.

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-Homer-

Russia-China partnership makes sense. They're both essentially surrounded by the U.S., and both want to revert back to the old ways of "spheres of influence"

The U.S. is in slow decline, because the cost of empire and the the perpetual wars. This has nothing to do with who the president is. They aren't the puppet masters, so who one votes for is irrelevant in the global picture. 

Putting the U.S. in check is a good thing, because U.S. Foreign Policy is a vile thing, but what would fill the power-vacuum is also vile. 

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Manwon Lender
On 6/11/2019 at 1:29 PM, Black Red Devil said:

China and Russia's leaders say their countries are closer than they've ever been, and that's partly due to what they see as a common threat.

Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin's meeting in St Petersburg was a display of the strength of their relationship, and also a show of solidarity against the United States. link

 

Are they only going to be strategic business partners or military partners as well?  China has stretched its tentacles into the South China sea, has been making more proclaims towards Taiwan lately and is cracking down on Democratic freedom in Hong Kong.  It's also expanded its business interests into Africa in recent times.

Russia is becoming more involved in the Middle East and finding a lot of friends in Europe with recently elected majority right wing Govts in Hungary, Austria, Italy.  It also appears Le Pen's right wing Party, which has been making giant strides in France in the last few years, has had financial support from Russian Banks.

Maybe NATO wasn't a bad idea after all. :P

All I can say is I hope something happens to stop.

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Gwynbleidd
On 6/12/2019 at 12:59 AM, and then said:

Is it just me or does Xi look like a hungry man pleased at seeing his next mealtime entre?  :w00t:  And for those who seem to think that seeing one or both of them take down the U.S. will be a good thing for the world... even when you win, you'll lose.  It's what losers do, I guess ;)  

Funny you should say that, every single time I see a pic of Putin, my very first thought is, "How tall is that guy?!"  Everyone appears to dwarf him. :o   

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Timothy
12 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Funny you should say that, every single time I see a pic of Putin, my very first thought is, "How tall is that guy?!"  Everyone appears to dwarf him. :o   

Don't say it to his face... They'll deliver a Buk missile system to the nearest country they're in cahoots with to shoot you down.

@Black Red Devil, are you aware that in the last week Russian aircraft flew with Chinese aircraft into South Korean/Japanese airspace? Seems they're going heavy on the sabre-rattling.
Thankfully SK apparently responded by firing hundreds warning shots after scrambling fast jets. Thankfully, because you can't just let it happen and only respond with a strongly worded political message.

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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, Timothy said:

@Black Red Devil, are you aware that in the last week Russian aircraft flew with Chinese aircraft into South Korean/Japanese airspace? Seems they're going heavy on the sabre-rattling.
Thankfully SK apparently responded by firing hundreds warning shots after scrambling fast jets. Thankfully, because you can't just let it happen and only respond with a strongly worded political message.

Yeah sounds like it doesn't it?  Go figure, I'm expecting at any moment the Chinese to send in their heavy troops into Hong Kong to squash all the 'pretentious' requests for democratic rule.

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Sir Smoke aLot

Superpowers can not be friends naturally but... Here things can get complicated when Russia and China are concerned.

Only thing which connected Russia and China was the West which has often placed them on the same side in the struggle. Well, one can let his imagination go wild from here.

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and then
On 6/12/2019 at 5:46 PM, Black Red Devil said:

Why would Turkey and Russia care about Israel?

The cause for the attack will be to "take a spoil"  IOW, they will come against Israel for profit.  Between the oil under the Golan and the offshore gas fields, Israel could become a major player in the world's energy markets.  They might well have begun to infringe on Russia's turf in that regard.  As for Turkey, it's a simple, one-word answer - ISLAM.  Erdog would like to be a Sultan that conquered Israel.  There is no overwhelming evidence that this scenario could NOT happen.  Your denial of scripture is all you base that statement on.  Have you ever been wrong about something? :w00t:  It happens to me, frequently.  

China and Russia have always been foes but both would be willing to unite to take down the U.S.  Then they'd get back to the same distrust and animosity they've always had.  

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Gromdor
6 hours ago, pixiii said:

Funny you should say that, every single time I see a pic of Putin, my very first thought is, "How tall is that guy?!"  Everyone appears to dwarf him. :o   

Putin is 5 '7".

As for the overall topic, I can see them working together to create an alternate global financial system to SWIFT.  Pulling the teeth out of US sanctions and giving countries a means to bypass it would be my primary goal if I was a hostile foreign leader.

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stevewinn

China moves on Taiwan at the same time Russia moves on the Baltic states. rest of the world powerless to stop it. and even if it tried could the USA and allies do both.

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RAyMO

While I can foresee military partnership between china and Russia, I suspect their primary goal at the minute would be to try to counter US economic weaponry. 

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Tatetopa
On 6/11/2019 at 8:31 AM, RavenHawk said:

But they don't see it that way.  As long as they are comfortable.  As long as they have control over their domain, the populace under their control supports the state and the state keeps them in power, as any good Socialist.

Or good Republican, or good Democrat for that matter when they are in power.  The elitists and major share holders of global mega corporations care about secure and prosperous business, not what you call your government.

 

I know you think America is standing tall, and we are but we also seem to be isolating ourselves.  We want to go it all alone. We don;t seem to be  doing anything that has strengthened our position in the world

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Black Red Devil
8 hours ago, and then said:

China and Russia have always been foes but both would be willing to unite to take down the U.S.  Then they'd get back to the same distrust and animosity they've always had.  

That's the point of this thread and the reason I placed it initially in the US section because it appears they are joining ranks, despite their own self motivated world grandeur ambitions, while the US under Trump appears to be creating fractured partnerships with historical western allies.  This is creating a vacuum that China and Russia are happily jumping into.

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Black Red Devil
Posted (edited)

An interesting article explaining how Russia and China are gaining the upper hand. In particular this part about how they're fighting Shadow wars. link

Quote

“Everybody thinks that if there’s going to be a big fight with China or Russia, that’ll be just like World War II … just with better technology,” Dr McFate said. “It won’t. Conventional war is dead.”

Which is why he says he simply cannot understand why Western governments insist on sinking tens of billions of dollars into weapons — such as stealth fighters and submarines — designed to fight on an obsolete battlefield.

“So what does new war look like?,” he asks. “Endurable disorder. A new type of global environment. A new type of conflict. It’s getting sneakier. War is getting sneaky.”

It’s also not black-and-white.

It’s about the entire scale of grey in between.

Take China’s expansion into the South China Sea.

“They get right in between that space of war and peace,” Dr McFate said. “They go right up to the brink of war in the South China Sea, right up to where we will react — and they stop. But they keep everything they capture or create. And this is how they’re winning the South China Sea, one island at a time — without carrier battle groups.”

Edited by Black Red Devil

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Captain Risky
13 hours ago, stevewinn said:

China moves on Taiwan at the same time Russia moves on the Baltic states. rest of the world powerless to stop it. and even if it tried could the USA and allies do both.

...America entering and projecting power in the immediate neighbourhood of China and Russia is always a bad idea. The risk of nuclear confrontation makes it so. Maybe this is the new disruptive low cost warfare that China and Russia are fighting the west with. Asymmetrical and escalating quickly that has soft man Trump shaking in his boots.  It’s too risky and expensive so Russia and China win by default. Bring back Reagan or Bush to play the same game. they’d sort out this mess. 

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aztek

they are like siblings, may fight each other, but will protect each other against outside threat

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