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Eldorado

"Ghost patients" prompt Fraud Investigation

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Eldorado

"The NHS fraud squad is investigating GPs in England amid suspicions they are claiming for non-existent patients.

"Doctors get an average of £150 a year for each patient on their list, but records show there were 3.6 million more patients in the system last year than there were people in England."

Full report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48600923

 

"The British Medical Association (BMA) and Royal College of General Practitioners have rejected any suggestions that GPs are guilty of “wilful deception” over GP capitation fees for patients on their practice lists."

Full denial at OnMedica dot com: http://www.onmedica.com/newsArticle.aspx?id=c9a86928-1b59-45ce-9635-f552665a66a2

 

"Numbers of ghost patients have risen sharply since provision of primary care support services were outsourced to private company Capita in 2015. Capita chose not to comment on the rise when this was reported last year by GPonline."

Full report at GP Online (UK): https://www.gponline.com/nhs-counter-fraud-authority-investigate-losses-fraud-general-practice/article/1587290

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itsnotoutthere

Strange....I thought last week we were saying that there were to many patients & not enough doctors.

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aztek

could be duplicate records, or it  could be fraud.  

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)

From my expierence working in government is likely that the members just died and no one ever bother, or got notified, to take them off the list. 

Edited by spartan max2
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skookum

I feel something weird has been going on for sometime. In my hometown thousands of houses have been built without any upgrade to services and infrastructure. It takes almost a month to get a GP appointment now for non urgent issues which is blamed on lack of GPs. However there is a huge banner outside the surgery welcoming new patients to register. 

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Susanc241

During my almost 25years in general practice, we did regular checks roughly every couple of years on records to weed out the 'ghosts'.  Records used to be recalled only when a patient registered at a new practice, after moving, say.  If nobody requested them, and they had to be requested from a central clearing department who then requested them from original practice, then the records just sat there.  We had patients who didn’t see their doctor for years on end but you couldn’t regard the records as inactive.  Not working in the NHS for years as now retired, I have to assume the same system applies.  Some of these ghost records will be clerical oversight or error, others will be sat on knowingly, I am sure.

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RabidMongoose

The NHS cost £122 billion in 2018. After a decade of Tory leadership that is now low compared to France and Germany as a percentage of GDP. But that is still as huge amount of money. I propose:

1. Smoking - All traditional Tabaco products should be made illegal leaving electronic versions only. People are after a nicotine fix, why are we permitting companies to put into their products all the other junk?

2. Drinkers & Druggies - Treatment for all illnesses related to heavy alcohol consumption and narcotic use should be moved off the NHS to the private sector. If a person cannot pay for their treatment then tough. However extra mental health services need to be provided to people self-medicating with alcohol and drugs. I propose legalising the sale of all drugs, but limiting their sale and possession to drug cafes, and heavily taxing sales to pay for the extra mental health services.

3. Obesity - If you are obese you no longer get access to treatments for obesity related illness unless you pay for it. Increase the tax levy on food products passing certain sugar thresholds. Use the money gained to offer gym memberships to the medically obese.

4. Plastic Surgery - All plastic surgeries get moved to the private sector. The only exceptions should be reconstruction work after surgery, accidents, or to fix deformities.

On top of that lets buy drugs and medical equipment at market prices, not the higher prices agreed too by past Governments. Lets restrain the NHSs constant use of management consultants. Healthcare is not a dynamic market so why are these people be brought in every 5 minutes to change things? Lets privatise all NHS support services and logistics. And finally, lets get everybody in work over onto private medical insurance. State healthcare should only be for low income earners and the provision of emergency services.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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RAyMO
4 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

. Smoking - All traditional Tabaco products should be made illegal

why not encourage more people to smoke? It stops them from becoming a burden to the Health Service in their older years.

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freetoroam
On 13/06/2019 at 7:17 PM, spartan max2 said:

From my expierence working in government is likely that the members just died and no one ever bother, or got notified, to take them off the list. 

There is a death certificate, it should automatically take them off the list, unless there is fraud going on and = they stay on the list because obviously no one seemed to be checking until.now, and the persons doctors were still reaping in the money.

Years ago a doctor would notice that 98 year old Mr Smith had not been back for 10 years and would make inquiries if the coroner did not inform him or a birth certificate was never issued.

Our system is being abused by Tombi Dickra and Hamza from all corners of the world coming here, and thats just the doctors! 

 

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freetoroam
6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

The NHS cost £122 billion in 2018. After a decade of Tory leadership that is now low compared to France and Germany as a percentage of GDP. But that is still as huge amount of money. I propose:

1. Smoking - All traditional Tabaco products should be made illegal leaving electronic versions only. People are after a nicotine fix, why are we permitting companies to put into their products all the other junk?

2. Drinkers & Druggies - Treatment for all illnesses related to heavy alcohol consumption and narcotic use should be moved off the NHS to the private sector. If a person cannot pay for their treatment then tough. However extra mental health services need to be provided to people self-medicating with alcohol and drugs. I propose legalising the sale of all drugs, but limiting their sale and possession to drug cafes, and heavily taxing sales to pay for the extra mental health services.

3. Obesity - If you are obese you no longer get access to treatments for obesity related illness unless you pay for it. Increase the tax levy on food products passing certain sugar thresholds. Use the money gained to offer gym memberships to the medically obese.

4. Plastic Surgery - All plastic surgeries get moved to the private sector. The only exceptions should be reconstruction work after surgery, accidents, or to fix deformities.

On top of that lets buy drugs and medical equipment at market prices, not the higher prices agreed too by past Governments. Lets restrain the NHSs constant use of management consultants. Healthcare is not a dynamic market so why are these people be brought in every 5 minutes to change things? Lets privatise all NHS support services and logistics. And finally, lets get everybody in work over onto private medical insurance. State healthcare should only be for low income earners and the provision of emergency services.

Non of this will stop doctors keeping dead people on their files. 

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OverSword

The result of cutting pay to physicians in the name of socialism.  Oops, I mean democratic socialism :rolleyes:

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OverSword
12 hours ago, Susanc241 said:

During my almost 25years in general practice, we did regular checks roughly every couple of years on records to weed out the 'ghosts'.  Records used to be recalled only when a patient registered at a new practice, after moving, say.  If nobody requested them, and they had to be requested from a central clearing department who then requested them from original practice, then the records just sat there.  We had patients who didn’t see their doctor for years on end but you couldn’t regard the records as inactive.  Not working in the NHS for years as now retired, I have to assume the same system applies.  Some of these ghost records will be clerical oversight or error, others will be sat on knowingly, I am sure.

What?  A government program ran inefficiently?  Tell me it ain't so. 

To my fellow Americans, can you imagine the size of this same mess in a country of 300 million being run by the most wasteful and corrupt government on the planet?

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Farmer77
Just now, OverSword said:

What?  A government program ran inefficiently?  Tell me it ain't so. 

To my fellow Americans, can you imagine the size of this same mess in a country of 300 million being run by the most wasteful and corrupt government on the planet?

Who cares? We currently live under a socialist healthcare system. Its just one designed and implemented by the oligarchs to benefit the oligarchs. 

 At least with a universal health system we have the vote to make us feel like we have a say.

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OverSword
  1. 4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Who cares? We currently live under a socialist healthcare system. Its just one designed and implemented by the oligarchs to benefit the oligarchs. 

 At least with a universal health system we have the vote to make us feel like we have a say.

Bull.  Don't want to pay for health insurance?  Don't enroll.  In the socialized system it's taken (stolen) out of your check before you see it.

Edited by OverSword

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Bull.  Don't want to pay for health insurance?  Don't enroll.  In the socialized system it's taken (stolen) out of your check before you see it.

I wasnt even referring to insurance. I was referring to the providers.

They charge absurd prices for their product and claim its to pay for those who dont pay their bills. Thats socialism , just designed to benefit the companies rather than the individual.

 

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OverSword

 just designed to benefit the companies rather than the individual  Government power mongers in charge of the program.

@Farmer77 There, fixed it for you. :tu:

Edited by OverSword

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Farmer77
Just now, OverSword said:

 just designed to benefit the companies rather than the individual  Government power mongers in charge of the program.

@Farmer77 There, fixed it for you.

Man i want to agree with you hell I wish I could still be a libertarian. 

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OverSword
3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Man i want to agree with you hell I wish I could still be a libertarian. 

You don’t have to be a libertarian to realize the government corrupts everything they are in charge of. It’s why we need a separation of economy and state. We would all be rich and the government would govern for the citizens instead of the wealthy and the corporations. Praise the lord they are not wholly in charge of health care 

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