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Eldorado

Oil Tanker "torpedoed" in Gulf of Oman?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
58 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Shooting down a large slow moving nonstealthy drone does not prove Iran has strong air defense,

Dark... these are basically the same missiles that Turkey ordered from Russia and that the US has put up so much a stink about.
Those missiles - part of the S-400 family are the best SAMs in the world. Let's put it this way, if Israel sends a  squadron of planes to bomb Iran,they ain't all coming home. ya dig.

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Setton
1 hour ago, aztek said:

so what is that supposed to mean? yes Iran is no Syria or Iraq, but we really do not care,  we can absolutely destroy it in a day,  but we have a different plan. you'll see soon enough

Aztek's 'plan':

Quote

Blackadder:

It's the same plan that we used last time and the seventeen times before that.

Melchett:
Exactly! And that is what is so brilliant about it! It will catch the watchful Hun totally off guard! Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time! 

 

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aztek
10 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Dark... these are basically the same missiles that Turkey ordered from Russia and that the US has put up so much a stink about.
Those missiles - part of the S-400 family are the best SAMs in the world. Let's put it this way, if Israel sends a  squadron of planes to bomb Iran,they ain't all coming home. ya dig.

lol, cruise missile from a sub, they wont know what hit them

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DarkHunter
41 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Dark... these are basically the same missiles that Turkey ordered from Russia and that the US has put up so much a stink about.
Those missiles - part of the S-400 family are the best SAMs in the world. Let's put it this way, if Israel sends a  squadron of planes to bomb Iran,they ain't all coming home. ya dig.

All of that is essentially complete and utter nonsense that makes no logical sense at all.

I honestly dont even know where to start with all of this.  

First off those missiles are not part of the S-400 family.  The S-300P, S-300F, S-300V, S-300VM, S-300V4, and S-400 are all part of the same family.  Of that family Iran only has a total of 64 launchers armed only with the intermediate range missiles.  The S-200, of which most of Iran's air defense is using missiles that were modified to have extended range are from a completely different family, a family of missiles that is close to 60 years old and hasnt really had any of the actually important stuff upgraded.  The Sayyad family of missiles is essentially a reversed engineered design from the US RIM-66 Standard.  

As for why US is making a stink, as how you once again eloquently put it, is over the S-400 potentially being able to collect radar data of the F-35s that could potentially be used to detect them better.  No matter how stealthy an aircraft is it will always have some radar signature till we find a way to bend the radar around the aircraft so wanting to keep F-35s out of near constant S-400 radar would be prudent.

"According to the newspaper’s investigation, “the IAF F-35 “Adir” planes penetrated Iran’s airspace, circled high above Tehran, Karajrak, Isfahan, Shiraz and Bandar Abbas – and photographed Iran’s air defense system.”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/iranian-commander-kept-secret-israeli-113000039.html

Seems at least squadrons of F-35s would be fine to go and bomb Iran at minimum.  Of course none of that changes the fact that Iran's air defense only has a max range of 350 km with a system that is near 60 years old and has broven in Syria to largely be unable to shot down any modern jets.  Iran only upgraded the range of their S-200s and not stuff like guidance or detection.  Also Israel has the delilah missile with a range of 250 km which outranges most of Iran's air defense.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Well put, @DarkHunter.  I stand corrected

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and then
8 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

So try to think about it instead of simply thinking that Iran is ''piece of cake'' job.

The difference you keep intentionally ignoring is that Iran has NOTHING the U.S. NEEDS.  The extent to which Iran is pummelled will depend upon how much they try to use asymmetrical warfare to kill Americans at home.  Short of them being successful with unleashing terror cells against our infrastructure or citizenry, it will only be Iran's nuclear infrastructure and IRGC that will die ignominious deaths.  I doubt we'd even bother striking their regular army installations.  If I were in target planning, I'd make a special point of deracinating as much of the Basij force as possible so the civilians could have a better chance of rising up and throwing off their chains.  Maybe airlifting small arms and some simple, crew served weaponry as well as some guys in green berets to teach them how to use it, would be in order as well.

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and then
On 7/8/2019 at 9:43 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I am really surprised that Spain is silent or i did not inform my self enough in these last few days.

It's because they're run by cowards.  They were attacked ONCE by terrorists and folded like a cheap suit.  They're hardly in any position to tangle with any competent naval force, let alone the Royal Navy.  

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and then
6 hours ago, Setton said:

Aztek's 'plan':

 

Regardless your seeming desire to see U.S. forces humbled by the mighty regime in Iran, it just won't happen.  If this thing gets started, the only blood Iran is apt to draw will be soldiers in the region or civilians in major U.S. cities that aren't cautious with their surroundings.  They are a thug regime and there is a reason they only fight with the use of proxies.  The mighty IRGC will most likely scatter to the four winds or be immolated in detail.  Russia and China will beetch and moan and do nothing to help Iran but sell them more useless weapons ;)  I find it hilarious that all of those here who trash talked the F-35 last year are remaining silent as the grave over the news of how Israel photo reconned major Iranian cities in broad daylight without being seen at all.  There is a reason they named their F-35s "The MIGHTY one"  :w00t:  :tu:

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Sir Smoke aLot
14 hours ago, aztek said:

so what is that supposed to mean? yes Iran is no Syria or Iraq, but we really do not care,  we can absolutely destroy it in a day,  but we have a different plan. you'll see soon enough

 

That's true, one bombing run, conventional, with all of the USA's military might would level Iran to the ground but there is a reason why such thing won't happen. Thing is you can not beat country with 80+ mil people without sending in millions of troops and logistics support. 

What would USA gain from simply bombing Iran and leveling it to the ground? Let's be realistic.

That's without even thinking about Iranian military capability.

Other plan is to starve Iranians so that they would eventually rise up and remove regime. But that thing ain't working for over 4 decades now.

Plan? I doubt it, if Bush administration did not manage to do it i really doubt that Trump administration has intellectual capability to make good plan. As i said Mr. Bolton said he would already celebrate in Tehran but deadline has passed, again lol

 

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Sir Smoke aLot
14 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Shooting down a large slow moving nonstealthy drone does not prove Iran has strong air defense, at the height the drone was flying in theory a WW2 flak battery could of shot it down.  

The RQ-4 globalhawk is not a spy drone, it is not designed or used as a spy drone, it is a reconnaissance drone, specifically a high flying long endurance reconnaissance drone.  The drone is not designed to enter hostile territory or evade detection, it is literally designed to fly high for hours and take pictures/videos.

I do not know technicalities, thanks for clarification. 

14 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Iran does have an extensive air defense system but it's not particularly great.  A large portion of their anti air missiles only have a range of 100 km or less.  Of their missiles that have a range greater then 100 km most are largely outdated, the majority of Iran's long range air defense, 400+ launchers, is their upgraded S-200 missiles where Iran seems to only of upgraded their range to be between 200 km and 350 km.  Iran has about 32 S-300P launchers only armed with missiles with a max range of 150 km, 32 S-300PMU2 launchers armed with missiles with a max range of 200 km, and Sayyad 2 and 3 of which Iran has 150+ launchers but have a range between 100 km and 120 km.

They have their own production of anti air systems. Regardless of their poor and outdated range those things if mass produced surely can make problems for attacking force.

To fly over Iran would not be the same as flying over Syria. For example Israel always attacks Syrian targets from Lebanon (because Lebanon has no anti air defense) and Syria has only old Soviet systems. Before S-300 was deployed (and it is not used yet) even Pantsir made problems to Israeli fighters when they entered Syrian airspace, move which has lead to one plane being shot. 

14 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

The problem with all of those missiles is that they are out drastically outranged by what the American Airforce and Navy has.

This is not question of who has superiority. It would be silly to compare American and Iranian weapons because Iran is behind not only in numbers but also in technology level, it's like decades behind. My whole point is that you can not attack country like Iran without risking enormous loses on your side too. What is the point when total victory can't be achieved? 

Also there is problem of geography and simple fact that US army is deployed in Afghanistan for so many years, have used a lot of it's superior weapons and where it got them? To negotiating table. Not further than that.

14 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

But if Iran's air defense is so good why was Israeli F-35s able to circle over Tehran undetected and take pictures of the capital, the guy in charge of Iran's air defense got fired over it.

F-35 should be that new invisible toy. Especially when it is not engaging the enemy it should be able to survey undetected? If it could not do that then money for development was wasted. Tell me how it ends if F-35 attacks targets in Iranian territory and leaves undetected and unharmed.

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.AKUMA.
7 hours ago, and then said:

Regardless your seeming desire to see U.S. forces humbled by the mighty regime in Iran, it just won't happen.  If this thing gets started, the only blood Iran is apt to draw will be soldiers in the region or civilians in major U.S. cities that aren't cautious with their surroundings.  They are a thug regime and there is a reason they only fight with the use of proxies.  The mighty IRGC will most likely scatter to the four winds or be immolated in detail.  Russia and China will beetch and moan and do nothing to help Iran but sell them more useless weapons ;)  I find it hilarious that all of those here who trash talked the F-35 last year are remaining silent as the grave over the news of how Israel photo reconned major Iranian cities in broad daylight without being seen at all.  There is a reason they named their F-35s "The MIGHTY one"  :w00t:  :tu:

The F-35 is a very capable machine, Sure its been the talk of many regarding its overall performance and technical faults but one cannot doubt its stealth characteristics and with a capable airforce like Israel's, it for sure, not to be reckoned with.

But that being said with all the talk of Turkeys S400s compromising the F-35 did no one think of the S400s being stationed in Syria? or the fact the Israeli airforce have been actively using it there? if the system was in danger of being compromised...it already has been.

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Sir Smoke aLot
13 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Let's put it this way, if Israel sends a  squadron of planes to bomb Iran,they ain't all coming home. ya dig.

People do not seem to understand simple fact that this is not time when actions like Operation Opera could be taken without much risk (or any risk as implied by some). Back then there was simply no chance for the enemy to defend effectively and today even smaller, more mobile platforms are able to down modernized fighter jets, like when Houtis hit Saudi fighters.

That is capable device in hands of Houtis. Since we can often hear how Iran is supplying them (despite the blockade) i can only assume that Iran has more capable systems for it's own use.

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and then
16 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

That's true, one bombing run, conventional, with all of the USA's military might would level Iran to the ground but there is a reason why such thing won't happen. Thing is you can not beat country with 80+ mil people without sending in millions of troops and logistics support. 

I'm writing this S L O W L Y so maybe you can get what I'm saying about attacking Iran without invading Iran.  I'll even go so far as to cede the point that Israel would be the immediate though not the only beneficiary by any means.  Iran poses no real widespread danger to the west beyond their desire for nukes and hegemony of the Gulf States.  Ergo - destroying their means to build weapons for years, we wouldn't need to do anything else in the short to near term.  Unless Iran's leaders pulled a Saddam and packed Command and Control bunkers with civilians there wouldn't even be mass civilian casualties.  The IRGC wouldn't fare too well, however. :tu: 

No U.S. president would be foolish enough to attempt to actually invade Iran because it just wouldn't be necessary to accomplish the goals we'd have vis a vis the mullahocracy.

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16 hours ago, .AKUMA. said:

The F-35 is a very capable machine, Sure its been the talk of many regarding its overall performance and technical faults but one cannot doubt its stealth characteristics and with a capable airforce like Israel's, it for sure, not to be reckoned with.

But that being said with all the talk of Turkeys S400s compromising the F-35 did no one think of the S400s being stationed in Syria? or the fact the Israeli airforce have been actively using it there? if the system was in danger of being compromised...it already has been.

It would take more than a few flights to do this.  No weapon system will forever defeat countermeasures and that includes the S- series of anti-air missiles.  A short squadron/flight of ADIRS would neutralize the Iranian ability to systematically intervene in an attack against their forces and installations.  A cruise missle fuselade and a strike by Adirs and our own F-22s would set the stage for completely dismantling Iran's airforce and navy.  We wouldn't care at all about their ground forces because they'd never step outside their own country.  They couldn't be logistically supported for that.  Nevermind the fact that they'd only see U.S aircraft over their heads.  The negative talk about the F-35 was silly from its beginning premise.  Its role was never really as a dogfight platform.  Its stealth and IT management of the battle space was always its selling point.  You can't hit something that stands off until the skies are relatively safe.  The F-22 in tandem with the F-35 would be unbeatable in the short term.  

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