American Atlantis

[Piney]

6 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

: these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city,

They didn't build canals to move logs out west. The used existing rivers. 

6 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

but Plato also tells us how the Atlantis lumberjacks, uniquely and exclusively, use those rivers and canals to get the timber to sawmills.

Not in the East. Draft horses, to donkey lines then to propane powered trucks. We learned to fall and buck the logs in a way they slid down in front of the loader.

 There wasn't a river big enough and canals cost money to build 

[Essan]

You don't use canals to bring logs - or anything else - down from the mountains to sea level.  Unless you have thousands of locks  

[Harte]

On 6/17/2019 at 4:04 AM, Alchopwn said:

Actually, to suggest that there were only nomads in the area is probably wrong.  The fact is that the Mississippi was inhabited by the Mound Builder cultures Mound Builders who were wiped out by the smallpox epidemic deliberately introduced to North America by Hernando De Soto LINK in a deliberate effort to destroy the native cultures so tha Spain could move in.  This turned a settled neolithic culture into a nomadic society of survivors who had no idea who built the mounts.  The territory of interest would fall largely within the Placquemines Culture boundaries.

Your link does not support the above claim.

Hard to see how this evil plan was concocted with De Soto, since at the time nobody knew of the indigenous lack of immunity.

Harte

[Piney]

10 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city,

 

3 hours ago, Essan said:

You don't use canals to bring logs - or anything else - down from the mountains to sea level.  Unless you have thousands of locks  

I missed that! Thanks! 

[+Pettytalk]

4 hours ago, Essan said:

You don't use canals to bring logs - or anything else - down from the mountains to sea level.  Unless you have thousands of locks  

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, please. And we need to keep in mind that we are dealing with representations (clues). For instance, let's not take it as literal that the outside of the temple of Poseidon was all covered with silver, or that the "large" image of Poseidon riding on a chariot drawn by six winged horses was made of gold, or that the roof of the interior of the temple was covered with ivory. This is only symbolism, a symbol of extreme wealth. But I suppose one can argue all the architectural and engineering improbabilities or impossibilities for those features. And so as with the many crossing canals, because there is symbolism there too, besides some actuality, but we will skip over that for now.

But as far bringing timber down from mountains, or moving logs using waterways, the ones already existing as streams and rivers, or already existing but modified by man's work, such as damming, cutting canals from, or deepening draft by dredging, we should not get too technical on the engineering. It suffices to understand the "why" it's mentioned by Plato. 

Whether or not we need locks, or how many, to get the logs down from the mountains to sea level, it matters not. And to argue for or against it, and to provide evidence for or against the feasibility is counterproductive at this early stage, and it will prove to be a moot point later on. Anyway, it will all become clearer as more and more of Plato's descriptions are discussed, and a plausible explanation can be given for the specific details as well as for the overall hypothesis of the Americas being Plato's Atlantis. 

Here is how Plato takes the timber down from the mountains to sea level, as he does it by connecting the rivers to the big "unbelievable" enormous trench, and through the ditch connects the canals. And since the ditch conducts water to the sea, we have the logs traveling on the canals to the city.

From Bury's Critias: It (the trench) received the streams which came down from the mountains and after circling round the plain, and coming towards the city on this side and on that, it discharged them thereabouts into the sea. And on the inland side of the city channels were cut in straight lines, of about 100 feet in width, across the plain, and these discharged themselves into the trench on the seaward side, the distance between each being 100 stades. It was in this way that they conveyed to the city the timber from the mountains and transported also on boats the seasons’ products, by cutting transverse passages from one channel to the next and also to the city.

http://www.factsfornow.scholastic.com/article?product_id=nbk&type=0ta&uid=10679574&id=a2017700-h

Lumber and Lumbering

The forest has served the needs of people for centuries. Wood is used to make homes and other buildings. It is used to make furniture. Wood is used to make pulp and paper. It is still used by many people as fuel. But no matter how we use wood, people must first go into the forest and log the trees.

There are forests all around the world. But nowhere have forests been more important in meeting the needs of people than in North America. The story of logging and lumbering is largely the story of logging and lumbering in North America.

The United States is the world's largest user of lumber. It is also the largest producer of lumber. It produces about one-quarter of the world's total. It also produces more than one-third of the wood pulp in the world. Together, the United States and Canada produce nearly half the world's supply of newsprint.

North American forests are rich in trees that are strong, beautiful, and useful. In the northeastern states there are white pine, hard maple, oak, basswood, and beech. In eastern Canada there are spruce and balsam fir, and white, red, and jack pine. On the Pacific slope there are Douglas fir, hemlock, western red cedar, and spruce. California is known for its redwood and the South for its pine stands (a stand is an area in which only one type of tree grows). There are almost 1,000 different kinds of trees growing in the United States. About 100 of these kinds of trees are used for lumber.

Early Logging and Lumbering

Logging and lumbering played a major role in the development of North America. The forests provided shelter, fuel, game, and furs, but they also occupied great areas of fertile land needed for crops. The work of clearing the land was difficult and wearying.

But from the earliest days there were many settlers for whom logging and lumbering provided a livelihood. Sawmills were built to cut lumber for building construction. Railroads and canals were built so that new stands of timber could be tapped.

[jmccr8]

17 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, please. And we need to keep in mind that we are dealing with representations (clues). For instance, let's not take it as literal that the outside of the temple of Poseidon was all covered with silver, or that the "large" image of Poseidon riding on a chariot drawn by six winged horses was made of gold, or that the roof of the interior of the temple was covered with ivory. This is only symbolism, a symbol of extreme wealth. But I suppose one can argue all the architectural and engineering improbabilities or impossibilities for those features. And so as with the many crossing canals, because there is symbolism there too, besides some actuality, but we will skip over that for now.

Hi Pettytalk

If you are inferring that Atlantis was in America and did build structures where did they go? Plato says that it fell into the sea and as far as I know there is no part of the Americas have had this type of geological event so what are you basing this on?

jmccr8

[docyabut2]

 No American Atlantis:) no cow bulls or chariots and Athens is not that far:)  

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

But as far bringing timber down from mountains, or moving logs using waterways, the ones already existing as streams and rivers, or already existing but modified by man's work, such as damming, cutting canals from, or deepening draft by dredging, we should not get too technical on the engineering. It suffices to understand the "why" it's mentioned by Plato. 

3 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

But as far bringing timber down from mountains, or moving logs using waterways, the ones already existing as streams and rivers, or already existing but modified by man's work, such as damming, cutting canals from, or deepening draft by dredging, we should not get too technical on the engineering. It suffices to understand the "why" it's mentioned by Plato. 

 

No, we never used a 'water way" to bring logs down from a mountain in the East or in the Central North Woods and I doubt they do it in the West. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Piney

[atalante]

18 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Let us turn our attention to the trees of Atlantis. And as with the large number of elephants, Plato tells us in Atlantis there are large forests. Not only large and extensive forests of a variety of trees, to provide all the needs of carpentry, but Plato also tells us how the Atlantis lumberjacks, uniquely and exclusively, use those rivers and canals to get the timber to sawmills.  ......

Further inland, likewise, straight canals of a hundred feet in width were cut from it through the plain, and again let off into the ditch leading to the sea: these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city, and conveyed the fruits of the earth in ships, cutting transverse passages from one canal into another, and to the city.

 

 

Pettytalk,

I believe Plato was describing a less energetic form of timber transport - timber rafting.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_rafting

[Piney]

@Jarocal  

Are you gonna open your mouth numb nuts or just lurk? 

[Piney]

5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

If you are inferring that Atlantis was in America and did build structures where did they go? Plato says that it fell into the sea and as far as I know there is no part of the Americas have had this type of geological event so what are you basing this on?

jmccr8

He saying Plato is a prophet of the Christian god and the U.S. is Atlantis and about to be ruined because we rejected the Jesus Bunny. 

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

He saying Plato is a prophet of the Christian god and the U.S. is Atlantis and about to be ruined because we rejected the Jesus Bunny. 

Hi Piney

Thanks so Trump is Poseidon and just how much of the continent will sink I wonder.

jmccr8

[+Pettytalk]

6 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

If you are inferring that Atlantis was in America and did build structures where did they go? Plato says that it fell into the sea and as far as I know there is no part of the Americas have had this type of geological event so what are you basing this on?

jmccr8

Obviously you are pretending, or if serious, have not followed my many posts on threads where Atlantis is the subject, as I been proposing an Atlantis in the distant future of Plato, and not his past. In other words, Atlantis is still under the sun, and not under the sea, yet. Some of the more astute and observant posters are well aware of it, as they have been making use of it for humorous entertainment all along. Just hold your horses, and humor me too, as we play along the dry road to Atlantis.

[jmccr8]

Just now, Pettytalk said:

Obviously you are pretending, or if serious, have not followed my many posts on threads where Atlantis is the subject, as I been proposing an Atlantis in the distant future of Plato, and not his past. In other words, Atlantis is still under the sun, and not under the sea, yet. Some of the more astute and observant posters are well aware of it, as they have been making use of it for humorous entertainment all along. Just hold your horses, and humor me too, as we play along the dry road to Atlantis.

Hi Pettytalk

I do remember you talking about Plato's future Atlantis and our exchange at that time although you made no specific reference to it being in America at that time. To be honest, I do miss some posts and at times do not realize it until I see a quote and go back to read what was missed. Not a criticism but I find your presentation slow moving and because I read in many threads that discuss a variety of subjects and the ones that are better imprinted are because they move and challenge concepts in depth and are supported in a clear documented manner. I enjoy your sense of humor but when engaging subjects like this when claims are made a certain level of seriousness and clarity is to be expected if it is to be constructive.

In this forum, I am and always will be a student and this is the perspective that you should take these comments in as given. I have always n my life selected my mentors from my early years and chose them for several reasons the first was the respect they had for themselves and others second was based on the quality of their craft and willingness to constructively share their knowledge. Finally that they have a certain level of patience and the ability to clearly visually and orally express that knowledge and there are several here that have demonstrated that to me that I regard as mentors and at first it was a tenuous situation for some of them. It took some time and I am not saying that they all like me(more like tolerate) but I have great respect for them for what they have contributed to my education and even a mentor should be challenged at times because it is stimulating and if properly done rewarding.

I would likely find what you are trying to get across in a timely and comprehensive manner more interesting.

jmccr8

[+Pettytalk]

For the knit-picking lumberjacks in the crowd, this is a good little reference for log drives in the wild wild west, so that it will drive home the message that streams and rivers, of necessity, travel from higher elevations to lower ones, as mother nature would have it. Water returning to its source, the sea. I would assume that it's widely accepted that land, of any shape, at around 700 meters of altitude and higher, usually in reference to sea level, is considered a mountain, even if flat.

https://andrewsforest.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/lter/pubs/pdf/pub3177.pdf

[+Pettytalk]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

I do remember you talking about Plato's future Atlantis and our exchange at that time although you made no specific reference to it being in America at that time. To be honest, I do miss some posts and at times do not realize it until I see a quote and go back to read what was missed. Not a criticism but I find your presentation slow moving and because I read in many threads that discuss a variety of subjects and the ones that are better imprinted are because they move and challenge concepts in depth and are supported in a clear documented manner. I enjoy your sense of humor but when engaging subjects like this when claims are made a certain level of seriousness and clarity is to be expected if it is to be constructive.

In this forum, I am and always will be a student and this is the perspective that you should take these comments in as given. I have always n my life selected my mentors from my early years and chose them for several reasons the first was the respect they had for themselves and others second was based on the quality of their craft and willingness to constructively share their knowledge. Finally that they have a certain level of patience and the ability to clearly visually and orally express that knowledge and there are several here that have demonstrated that to me that I regard as mentors and at first it was a tenuous situation for some of them. It took some time and I am not saying that they all like me(more like tolerate) but I have great respect for them for what they have contributed to my education and even a mentor should be challenged at times because it is stimulating and if properly done rewarding.

I would likely find what you are trying to get across in a timely and comprehensive manner more interesting.

jmccr8

Come on jmccr8, you know very well of the difficulties and insurmountable barriers awaiting me, if I were to rush through with my supernatural hypothesis on Plato's true Atlantis. I barely start and the cynics come rushing out. Unfortunately it will have to be a piecemeal thing, as an all at once rushed thing will choke even the most naive among us.

If I can't hold your attention for lack of speed and lack of the kind of evidence that is expected by scientific methods, I apologize. I also apologize for my shortfalls, as I'm not qualified to be a mentor, nor am I a gifted story teller. I'm just a clumsy and uneducated message bearer, and considered disposable, since it's always the messenger that gets stoned, playing a pun on the hippie term for being stoned. The message I bring will only be considered as a type of a message that only someone completely stoned out of their mind could bear.  And I do believe that I bear a message from my Master. But like Moses, I'm slow of tongue, and therefore looking for a brother Aaron, to do my speaking.

And until my Aaron comes forward, it will be a slow and torturous road to Atlantis without green evidence. Feel free to stay and listen, or to leave for greener and faster pastures.

On a side, does your ccr stand for Credence Clearwater Revival?

It's amazing how many of the scientific minded atheists around this forum are so much enamored with fiction and science fiction, They strain a gnat and swallow a camel.

 

[jmccr8]

33 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Come on jmccr8, you know very well of the difficulties and insurmountable barriers awaiting me, if I were to rush through with my supernatural hypothesis on Plato's true Atlantis. I barely start and the cynics come rushing out. Unfortunately it will have to be a piecemeal thing, as an all at once rushed thing will choke even the most naive among us.

Hi Pettytalk

Challenges are why we learn and yes I never said it would be easy but that should not be a barrier if you are confident in your perspective.

36 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

If I can't hold your attention for lack of speed and lack of the kind of evidence that is expected by scientific methods, I apologize. I also apologize for my shortfalls, as I'm not qualified to be a mentor, nor am I a gifted story teller. I'm just a clumsy and uneducated message bearer, and considered disposable, since it's always the messenger that gets stoned, playing a pun on the hippie term for being stoned. The message I bring will only be considered as a type of a message that only someone completely stoned out of their mind could bear.  And I do believe that I bear a message from my Master. But like Moses, I'm slow of tongue, and therefore looking for a brother Aaron, to do my speaking.

 I work and read on breaks and at other times am engaged in other discussions so may not comment at times on this subject and my comments to you were not meant in a derogatory manner. I build things so I rely on information and visualization skills and see a discussion, in the same manner, I do in building a house or a car give me the specs and I will draw you a picture.

I don't build a house from the roof down so I start with a good foundation and when framing I order twice the amount of studs I need to sort for the straightest material and return the unacceptable studs and exercise the same standard through each phase of construction much like the way I look at what people present in discussions. If you have a perspective that is well researched and can be supported I do not see why there should be a problem in providing it and being asked about aspects of it.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Pettytalk said:

On a side, does your ccr stand for Credence Clearwater Revival?

Hi Pettytalk

Good band but no ccr is part of my last name the first letter is my first name and the rest is my Irish.

jmccr8

[+Pettytalk]

12 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

Good band but no ccr is part of my last name the first letter is my first name and the rest is my Irish.

jmccr8

I love the Irish. As that old Irish saying goes, at the end of the rainbow there's a pot of gold. Stick with me, and we'll prove the Irish leprechauns are real, and so is a real pot of Gold waiting for all of us, somewhere over the rainbow. 

 

[+Pettytalk]

11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 No American Atlantis:) no cow bulls or chariots and Athens is not that far:)  

1. No cows and bulls? 

2. No chariots?

3. Athens not that far?

 

[Essan]

And, of course, there were definitely giants

 

Hang on though.   Plato didn't mention any giants in Atlantis!      If they existed it surely would have.  Ergo, American cannot be Atlantis, because America had giants and Atlantis did not.  QED  

[Trelane]

The evidence in North America of the advanced civilization as described by Plato does not exist. Nothing that remotely comes close has ever existed in North America.

What I'm reading is a considerable amount of conjecture and misinterpretation of something that never actually existed. The list of descriptive items does not fit anywhere in pre-Colombian America. This includes going even further back to the Paleolithic age as evidenced by extensive archaeological, geological expeditions and studies conducted throughout the continent.

As one of my professors once said about Atlantis, "The only thing to this story, is the story."

 

[+Pettytalk]

4 hours ago, Essan said:

And, of course, there were definitely giants

 

Hang on though.   Plato didn't mention any giants in Atlantis!      If they existed it surely would have.  Ergo, American cannot be Atlantis, because America had giants and Atlantis did not.  QED  

Very good humor, Essan, and it's gladly accepted. We need all the humor we can get, in these "tomes" of trouble

But what if I told you that in Plato's books of end-time prophecy, the elephants of Atlantis represent the Republican party? A large herd of voracious eaters of swing voters?

 

 

[+Desertrat56]

On 6/16/2019 at 7:16 AM, RabidMongoose said:

Open Google Chrome and go to the following Google Earth links:

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.91844092,-93.37386361,-9.75569765a,88348.73666433d,35y,357.3769671h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.78292157,-92.1640074,5.55927321a,29931.74910093d,35y,357.37696618h,0t,0r

They are all locations in Texas and Louisiana (and I could list 100s more). Can you spot what is wrong with them all? Nope? Well lets get right to it - since when are rivers perfectly straight?

I am not aware of colonial powers building 1000s of kilometres of straight rivers and canals. That would have been a major civil engineering product requiring millions of men and a huge amount of money. Yet there is no mention of it in the history of the United States. So who built them? Who had the power and men and money to build them? Was Atlantis in North America?

What arent we being told?

Maybe the problem is you are using googlechrome.  I don't use that or Bing or Explorer, what were you searching for to get those links?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Desertrat56

[Piney]

19 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

But what if I told you that in Plato's books of end-time prophecy, the elephants of Atlantis represent the Republican party? A large herd of voracious eaters of swing voters?