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RoofGardener

Israel slammed for child deaths

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Farmer77
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

If this HAD have been Israel, then the media would be trumpeting the Palestinian deaths from the rooftops. But because it was one set of Muslim Arabs attacking another set of Muslim Arabs, the world is silent, and there is no criticism of Saudi.

Maybe im a pessimist but I would say its even worse than that. If you want to kill an hour or two trace these Lockheed Martin shareholders and their other corporate connections.

Top 5 Shareholders of Lockheed Martin (LMT)

Quote

State Street Corporation

State Street Corporation (NYSE: STT) is a large asset manager and one of the major sponsors of ETFs. The company also offers mutual funds and private institutional investment pools. State Street holds 16.48% of Lockheed Martin common stock in its various portfolios. State Street's investment was at the time worth more than $15.15 billion.

 

Capital World Investors

Capital Group, based in Los Angeles, California, is one of the world’s largest privately held asset management companies, and owns 7.69% of Lockheed Martin stock. The stake was at the time worth more than $7 billion.

 

Vanguard Group

The Vanguard Group Inc. is a long-time major proponent of passively managed stock mutual funds. Three of the top 10 mutual fund Lockheed Martin shareholders are passively managed index funds by Vanguard, including Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund, Vanguard 500 Index Fund, and Vanguard Institutional Index Fund. Vanguard holds 7.09% of Lockheed Martin stock – a stake worth over $6.5 billion at the time.

 

BlackRock Inc.

With $6.28 trillion in assets under management, BlackRock, Inc. (BLK) is, at least by that measure, the largest investment management company in the world, publicly traded or otherwise. Boasting a market capitalization of over $87.4 billion, the firm sells mutual funds, exchange-traded funds, and closed-end funds, in addition to other vehicles that focus on objectives ranging from retirement income (the firm’s own branded CoRI funds) to college saving plans. (See also: How BlackRock Makes Money | Investopedia). The company holds 6.72% of Lockheed Martin common – worth over $6.1 billion.

 

Bank of America Corporation

The fifth largest institutional investor is Bank of America which holds 8.8 million shares, or 3.10% of Lockheed Martin stock which was worth over $2.8 billion in March of 2018. Bank of America, of course, is one of the largest financial institutions on earth. 

and thats just one of the folks involved in the $350 Billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia

Quote

 

Between all those corporations they either own  the media corporations themselves or have the ability to financially crush anyone who p***es them off. Hell they probably dont even have to talk about it, management likely knows where their bread is buttered.

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Aaron2016
Posted (edited)

Children are never targeted specifically.  They are used as human shields and the enemy missile launchers are intentionally discharged from deep inside heavily dense civilian areas knowing full well that the allied response will result in civilian casualties, and then we see a typical stereotype on the news of a guy holding a dead child, or a hospital corridor crowded with hundreds of men passing dead and injured people into the ward - despite the fact those casualties were likely already there before the attack.  My sister has been to Israel 9 times and was told that the Palestinians actually learn from an early age how to fake injuries and pretend to be dead for the cameras, and they will exaggerate every incident so that when 2 teenagers are killed for attempting to stab a soldier, they will say 5 innocent children were killed by Israeli forces, and the propaganda will hike up every incident so that 10 casualties become 50 and so forth.  When we look back at every atrocity carried out over the centuries we find that revisionists will lower the figure again and again.  Similar to the death toll on 9/11 which first was 10,000, and then the mayor of NY ordered 30,000 body bags, and then it lowered to 5,000, and then 2,977.  Rule one - never believe the first reports, but sadly that is when emotions are high and the media are milking the story as much as possible i.e. when it is mostly inaccurate and liable to be highly exaggerated to make sensational headlines and click bait.

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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Tatetopa

Why do we even pretend to care?  If it was important to us, we would have done something about.  Let the faceless multitudes die on the other side of the world as long as it doesn't affect the kale and grits we have for dinner or the styling appointment that is vital before we attend church. 

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Alchopwn
Posted (edited)

The point I would make in return is that the Palestinians DELIBERATELY position children in the sites where their weapons are being fired, so there will be children killed when the Israelis fire on them, so that media coverage will say that children were killed, and idiots will say "oh noes!".  This is a known tactic of the various Palestinian movements.  As they are prepared to place their own children in harms way, why should we feel any sympathy for them?  This is deliberate and willful child endangerment as a matter of policy by a non-state actor and deserves to be condemned as a human rights violation and invoke sanctions and the strongest sort of censure for its cynical and machiavellian abuse of childrens' lives for media mileage.  If the Palestinians care nothing for the lives of the children who would be the inheritors of the would-be state of Palestine, why should any thinking person give a damn about it?

As you say RoofGardener, the media is utterly hypocritical in its treatment of these issues, and that does nothing to engender trust from the viewing public.

Edited by Alchopwn
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Farmer77
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

  As they are prepared to place their own children in harms way, why should we feel any sympathy for them? 

You did realize that the story was actually about the Saudi/Yemen war and roofie was using the response to what happens in israel as a device right? (i think you did just making sure)

Now with that said, purely for the sake of conversation because i find the psychology fascinating:

Why shouldnt the entire world think the exact same thing about Israel? They chose to go there, in the middle of hostile territory, and knowingly put their children in harms way. Why should we feel any sympathy for them?

 

Edited by Farmer77
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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Maybe im a pessimist but I would say its even worse than that. If you want to kill an hour or two trace these Lockheed Martin shareholders and their other corporate connections.

Top 5 Shareholders of Lockheed Martin (LMT)

and thats just one of the folks involved in the $350 Billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia

 

Between all those corporations they either own  the media corporations themselves or have the ability to financially crush anyone who p***es them off. Hell they probably dont even have to talk about it, management likely knows where their bread is buttered.

 

Sadly so @Farmer77. Sadly so. 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Sadly so @Farmer77. Sadly so. 

Honestly man I had to stop looking after I got to Berkshire Hathaway the paranoia started setting in like a scene from a Hitchcock flick.

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RoofGardener
15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You did realize that the story was actually about the Saudi/Yemen war and roofie was using the response to what happens in israel as a device right? (i think you did just making sure)

Now with that said, purely for the sake of conversation because i find the psychology fascinating:

Why shouldnt the entire world think the exact same thing about Israel? They chose to go there, in the middle of hostile territory, and knowingly put their children in harms way. Why should we feel any sympathy for them?

 

Hmm.... I can't make you feel 'sympathy' for them. However, I might ask for a little consistency ? :D 

Bombing children is bad. Any country doing it should be criticised. Israel should be criticised. But so should Saudi Arabia. It is the lack of consistency in applying "moral outrage" that makes me angry. 

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Phaeton80
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

International aid organisations, including Oxfam and Save The Children, heavily criticsed Israel yesterday following an air raid on Gaza city that killed six civilians, including four children.

The raid was in response to a Palestinian attack using five commercial drones, which where detected approaching Ben Gurion international airport.

The media was also heavily critical of the response, labeling it "murderous and disproportionate.". A special session of the UN General Assembly has been called to discuss the Israeli attack.

Except it hasn't, and they didn't. Because this was NOT an attack against Palestinians by Israeli's. It was an attack by Saudi's against Yemeni's, in response to the Houthi's attempting to attack Abha airport in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's launched an air attack that killed six Yemeni's, including four children. And the world was silent. The BBC mentioned the Saudi air strike in paragraph 8 of a story, which focused on the attack against the airport.

If this HAD have been Israel, then the media would be trumpeting the Palestinian deaths from the rooftops. But because it was one set of Muslim Arabs attacking another set of Muslim Arabs, the world is silent, and there is no criticism of Saudi.

About 7000 Yemeni's have been killed since the Sunni intervention 5 years ago. That is more than the total number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security services in the last 25 years.

And yet the world is silent.

Hypocrites ! :(

 

 

Wait wait.. so your premise here is to defend Western backed child killing with another instance of Western backed childkilling that is - from a certain viewpoint - even more reprehensible.. only to close off with the word 'hypocrites'?

Sweet.

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Farmer77
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.... I can't make you feel 'sympathy' for them. However, I might ask for a little consistency ? :D 

Oh I absolutely do. Like i said I have just come to find the psychology surrounding the Israeli issue to become fascinating.

13 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Bombing children is bad. Any country doing it should be criticised. Israel should be criticised. But so should Saudi Arabia. It is the lack of consistency in applying "moral outrage" that makes me angry. 

So should the US and yet I get labeled by some on here as a US hater when I try and be consistent....weird.

Hell i will confess to being guilty of the selective moral outrage on this issue myself though. Not that im not morally outraged, just that I cant find a way to express that moral outrage that doesnt make me feel like a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist screaming at strangers about the military industrial complex so it gets buried and ignored with other outrages like the Sudan and Bran ending up the king.

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.... I can't make you feel 'sympathy' for them. However, I might ask for a little consistency ? :D 

Bombing children is bad. Any country doing it should be criticised. Israel should be criticised. But so should Saudi Arabia. It is the lack of consistency in applying "moral outrage" that makes me angry. 

I see posts about Saudi Arabia bombing kids all the time on my Facebook feed.  Granted it is from my left leaning friends combined with complaints about Trump selling them the bombs to do so.  It's getting reported.  I have the feeling that it is just not news that is spread widely in your personal circle.

Stuff like this: https://www.codepink.org/yemeni_children_killed_by_us_bombs

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RAyMO
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

The point I would make in return is that the Palestinians DELIBERATELY position children in the sites where their weapons are being fired, so there will be children killed when the Israelis fire on them, so that media coverage will say that children were killed, and idiots will say "oh noes!".  This is a known tactic of the various Palestinian movements.

According to the supporters of those that conduct the 'offensive defensive' action. Personally I put as little trust in the words and opinions of 'interested' western powers and Israel, as I do to their opponents. Each side produces 'Facts' or 'Alternative Facts' to suit their own views and causes. 

Edited by RAyMO
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RoofGardener
57 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I see posts about Saudi Arabia bombing kids all the time on my Facebook feed.  Granted it is from my left leaning friends combined with complaints about Trump selling them the bombs to do so.  It's getting reported.  I have the feeling that it is just not news that is spread widely in your personal circle.

Stuff like this: https://www.codepink.org/yemeni_children_killed_by_us_bombs

Hmm.. that's very interesting @Gromdor. I don't think it is "my personal circle" though... the BBC article only mentioned the Yemeni deaths toward the bottom, with the first 7 paragraphs being about the attack on the Saudi airport. 

And it's not just Trump. The UK government has sold Saudi oodles of weapons as well. :( 

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Setton
Just now, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. that's very interesting @Gromdor. I don't think it is "my personal circle" though... the BBC article only mentioned the Yemeni deaths toward the bottom, with the first 7 paragraphs being about the attack on the Saudi airport. 

Do you also have a link for the BBC reporting on Israeli attacks killing children? 

Here are the first two I can find:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48167234

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47698428

Neither seem to mention children at all. 

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Setton said:

Do you also have a link for the BBC reporting on Israeli attacks killing children? 

Here are the first two I can find:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48167234

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47698428

Neither seem to mention children at all. 

Actually, they did ! Well, the first one did, anyway. 

Then they had to retract it, as the Israeli's claimed it was a HAMAS rocket-misfire that killed the child. A fact that HAMAS themselves subsequently admitted to. 

 

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tortugabob

The idea that the Palestinians deliberately place their children in harms way is ludicrous and an outright lie. The apartheid nation of Israel has practiced crimes against humanity since it's founding in 1948.  If it were not for the United States veto power in the United Nations Security Council Israel would have been sanctioned out of existence.  The modern Israeli is an Eastern European with not one drop of blood from the Abrahamic line.  Let me quote you what David Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel had to say about the "Jewish"  right to the land of Palestine.

“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?”

Quoted in Nathan Goldman, “The Jewish Paradox”, in Tony Seed and Gary Zatzman (Eds.) Dossier on Palestine (Shunpiking, 2002), p 72. The dossier is a most informative compendium on Palestine.

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and then
4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Why do we even pretend to care?  If it was important to us, we would have done something about.  Let the faceless multitudes die on the other side of the world as long as it doesn't affect the kale and grits we have for dinner or the styling appointment that is vital before we attend church. 

That's unnecessarily harsh, Tat.  What would you have the average citizen do, exactly?  Besides, the OP isn't about the mindless slaughter, per se, only the hypocrisy of how it is reported and who is consistently demonized through that reporting.  And what he says is true, indisputable.

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and then
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, tortugabob said:

The idea that the Palestinians deliberately place their children in harms way is ludicrous and an outright lie.

Nah, they'd NEVER risk their children in such a way:

Should we believe you or our lyin' eyes?  They teach their children to hate a Jew for breathing and the culture and their peers take care of the rest.  The IDF has been broadcasting into Lebanon for the last couple of years to let the civilians who have rockets or launchers in their homes understand that when the fight begins there won't be any warnings.  They can flee or they'll die.  There won't be time to knock on any roofs with a warning.  I don't doubt that Palestinian parents mostly love their kids like anyone else but they selected tyrannical leaders that demand blood for staying alive.  

Edited by and then

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tortugabob

and then sez  "What would you have the average citizen do, exactly?"

Start by reading some unbiased history of the region.  The British started this mess with the Balfour Declaration.  

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tortugabob
Posted (edited)

Hasbarem like you are easy.  Your video has nothing to do with reality. I can post dozens of videos of real Israeli violations of human rights.

Edited by tortugabob

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and then
5 minutes ago, tortugabob said:

Hasbarem like you are easy.  Your video has nothing to do with reality. I can post dozens of videos of real Israeli violations of human rights.

Just a point - no one pays me to say anything.  I've been on this site stating my beliefs about the right of descendants of Jacob to possess that land for about 7 years.  I won't argue with you because you don't matter ;)   Nothing you spew will make the slightest difference to me.  As far as poor wee Palestinians, they can decide to live in peace and prosperity on part of that land or they can continue to die for generations more... that's THEIR choice, not mine.  When a hard charger like yourself starts slinging the Apartheid brush I can't begin to take you seriously.  I don't recall South African Blacks sitting on their supreme court or occupying seats in their representative body as Palestinians do in Israel.  Meanwhile, Bob, don't you have a bulldozer to stand in front of?  

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Setton
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Actually, they did ! Well, the first one did, anyway. 

Then they had to retract it, as the Israeli's claimed it was a HAMAS rocket-misfire that killed the child. A fact that HAMAS themselves subsequently admitted to. 

 

Yep, missed that it's so brief. In paragraph 17. So quite a long way after the Saudi one you're using for comparison. 

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RoofGardener
52 minutes ago, Setton said:

Yep, missed that it's so brief. In paragraph 17. So quite a long way after the Saudi one you're using for comparison. 

Hmmm... true.. although not as a proportion of the length of the article ? Also, the military aspects of the conflicts where somewhat more pronounced than the Yemeni/Saudi thing, and possibly deserved the greater focus ? (600 rockets etc). Still, I take your point. 

 

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Setton
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm... true.. although not as a proportion of the length of the article ? Also, the military aspects of the conflicts where somewhat more pronounced than the Yemeni/Saudi thing, and possibly deserved the greater focus ? (600 rockets etc). Still, I take your point. 

 

Just to be clear, I definitely think there is a double standard at play but I think it's a little more complex than you're suggesting. 

Probably some academic will spend a few years writing about it :lol:

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