Israel slammed for child deaths

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, and then said:

That's unnecessarily harsh, Tat.  What would you have the average citizen do, exactly? 

Maybe so, but it seems Western society is  deep into self-interest and appearances.  We don't have a lot of tolerance for  uncomfortable or challenging ethical situations.  We often seem so shallow.  

The average person can't do a lot except make their opinion known, maybe choose where to invest or contribute,  and exhort governments to behave in a humanitarian fashion. 

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Just to be clear, I definitely think there is a double standard at play but I think it's a little more complex than you're suggesting. 

Probably some academic will spend a few years writing about it 

I'm already regreting starting this thread. 

I wanted to point out discrepancies in the way that events are reported by.. hah.. the "main stream media". 

Perhaps it would have been better if I'd just shut up ?  

 

[Setton]

22 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm already regreting starting this thread. 

I wanted to point out discrepancies in the way that events are reported by.. hah.. the "main stream media". 

That's one token! 5 more and you can send away for your free tinfoil hat!*

Quote

Perhaps it would have been better if I'd just shut up ?  

I'm not saying that. 

 

I got you to say it 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*tinfoil hat is free. You only pay £999.99 p&p. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

11 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

The point I would make in return is that the Palestinians DELIBERATELY position children in the sites where their weapons are being fired, 

  I am surprised you would fall for that fake news.  The Israeli's KNEW they were going child hunting to avenge the deaths of the three Yashiva students killed just days before. So Israel's FAKE NEWS division cooked that doozy up to make westerners think that - hey, it's not Israel's fault!

 

[Black Red Devil]

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

About 7000 Yemeni's have been killed since the Sunni intervention 5 years ago. That is more than the total number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security services in the last 25 years.

And yet the world is silent.

Hypocrites !

 

The world we live in.  There is a civil war in Mali currently going on where Boko Harem and ISIS have infiltrated and thousands have died in the last 5-6 years.  There was a massacre just last week (not by the Islamist affiliates) which killed more than a 160 Fulani herders, mostly women and children.  How many people heard of that?  If you opened a thread about it here on UM how many would comment?  Western media reports mostly by ratings.  A story on Netanyahu and MBS gets more attention than the death of 160 black herders.

Anyway, I think you've picked a bad example to show how poorly the world treats those innocent Israeli's.  Western Govts are allies with both the Saudi's and Israel and they aren't saying much about either, nor the famine in Yemen or the indiscriminate bulldozing of Palestinian villages in the West Bank.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm already regreting starting this thread. 

I wanted to point out discrepancies in the way that events are reported by.. hah.. the "main stream media". 

Perhaps it would have been better if I'd just shut up ?  

 

Being shouted down on THIS topic is nothing unusual.  Thanks for making the point.  It's all we can do.  I'm classed as a total sell-out to every misdeed or evil a secular Israeli government or civilian commits yet I have made it clear to anyone willing to be fair that I do not support criminal activities by Israelis.  I just don't expect them to be held to a totally different and worse standard than their enemies.  So long as Palestinians teach their children to hate a Jew for existing and their government foments murder and mayhem against Israel, I will support Israel's legal acts in self-defense.  How many Palestinians die in any given year at the point of IDF weapons depends entirely on the Palestinians.  

[Black Red Devil]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Being shouted down on THIS topic is nothing unusual.  Thanks for making the point.  It's all we can do.  I'm classed as a total sell-out to every misdeed or evil a secular Israeli government or civilian commits yet I have made it clear to anyone willing to be fair that I do not support criminal activities by Israelis.  I just don't expect them to be held to a totally different and worse standard than their enemies.  So long as Palestinians teach their children to hate a Jew for existing and their government foments murder and mayhem against Israel, I will support Israel's legal acts in self-defense.  How many Palestinians die in any given year at the point of IDF weapons depends entirely on the Palestinians.  

[RoofGardener]

9 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

The world we live in.  There is a civil war in Mali currently going on where Boko Harem and ISIS have infiltrated and thousands have died in the last 5-6 years.  There was a massacre just last week (not by the Islamist affiliates) which killed more than a 160 Fulani herders, mostly women and children.  How many people heard of that?  If you opened a thread about it here on UM how many would comment?  Western media reports mostly by ratings.  A story on Netanyahu and MBS gets more attention than the death of 160 black herders.

That's very sad  

9 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Anyway, I think you've picked a bad example to show how poorly the world treats those innocent Israeli's.  Western Govts are allies with both the Saudi's and Israel and they aren't saying much about either, nor the famine in Yemen or the indiscriminate bulldozing of Palestinian villages in the West Bank.

I don't think it's indiscriminate ? I think they have some sort of plan ?  

Or do you imagine that bulldozer drivers just drive around randomly, until they find a Palestinian village ?  

[Alchopwn]

11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

  I am surprised you would fall for that fake news.  The Israeli's KNEW they were going child hunting to avenge the deaths of the three Yashiva students killed just days before. So Israel's FAKE NEWS division cooked that doozy up to make westerners think that - hey, it's not Israel's fault!

It isn't fake ****ing news.  How many times have you been to Israel?  I've lived there as a translator for 4 years.  I've made a point of meeting both sides, and I KNOW from first hand experience and the tacit admission of the Hammas fighters that this is a deliberate policy.  They told me to my face that this was what they were doing and why, as I expressed a measure of curiosity about their cause and potential sympathy as I said I didn't necessarily believe what the media told me.   Worse still, the great fools thought that they were doing nothing wrong; that is how savage they are, and in how little regard they hold their childrens' lives.  And that is one of many reasons why I will always support Israel over the scum who started the war in the first place.  Savages who lack the sense of proportion to protect their own children from danger don't deserve any regard, and given that Islam actively praises and promotes pedophilia, there is much worse going on. LINK from a lovely lady in my acquaintance.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Alchopwn

[Black Red Devil]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

That's very sad  

I don't think it's indiscriminate ? I think they have some sort of plan ?  

Or do you imagine that bulldozer drivers just drive around randomly, until they find a Palestinian village ?  

Ok, they have a plan.

[RoofGardener]

14 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Ok, they have a plan.

Actually, on reflection, I'm leaning towards the Random Bulldozer theory. 

No doubt a secret experiment deep beneath the caverns of Dimona.... sponsored by the Military.. to create an artificial-intelligence autonomous Unmaned Bulldozer. But it went wrong, and the Bulldozer broke out, to become the Wandering Jewish Bulldozer. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by RoofGardener

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It isn't fake ****ing news.  How many times have you been to Israel?  I've lived there as a translator for 4 years.  I've made a point of meeting both sides, and I KNOW from first hand experience and the tacit admission of the Hammas fighters that this is a deliberate policy.  They told me to my face that this was what they were doing and why, as I expressed a measure of curiosity about their cause and potential sympathy as I said I didn't necessarily believe what the media told me.   Worse still, the great fools thought that they were doing nothing wrong; that is how savage they are, and in how little regard they hold their childrens' lives.  And that is one of many reasons why I will always support Israel over the scum who started the war in the first place.  Savages who lack the sense of proportion to protect their own children from danger don't deserve any regard, and given that Islam actively praises and promotes pedophilia, there is much worse going on. LINK from a lovely lady in my acquaintance.

HAMAS has publicly stated that it expects its civilians to become martyrs, and to act as human shields. (or, to look at it a different way, HAMAS treats all of its civilians as militia members). 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields

[Setton]

13 hours ago, and then said:

Being shouted down on THIS topic is nothing unusual.  

Oh diddums. Did the nasty posters not like you because you're OK with killing civilians?

Tough ****. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Setton

[Black Red Devil]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It isn't fake ****ing news.  How many times have you been to Israel?  I've lived there as a translator for 4 years.  I've made a point of meeting both sides, and I KNOW from first hand experience and the tacit admission of the Hammas fighters that this is a deliberate policy.  They told me to my face that this was what they were doing and why, as I expressed a measure of curiosity about their cause and potential sympathy as I said I didn't necessarily believe what the media told me.   Worse still, the great fools thought that they were doing nothing wrong; that is how savage they are, and in how little regard they hold their childrens' lives.  And that is one of many reasons why I will always support Israel over the scum who started the war in the first place.  Savages who lack the sense of proportion to protect their own children from danger don't deserve any regard, and given that Islam actively praises and promotes pedophilia, there is much worse going on. LINK from a lovely lady in my acquaintance.

I understand your experience and I don't think Hamas is good for the Palestinians either.  But you have to consider that Israel has blockaded all access in and out of Gaza by air and sea, Palestinians in Gaza can't trade or build.  Gaza is one of the most densely populated regions on Earth where close to 2 million people live in a territory 41kms long and 6-12kms wide (from sea to the Israeli border).  They have no job prospects, money or future.  People say it's Hamas' fault for firing rockets at Israel.  Is it?  Would the world be listening and acting if they didn't fire the rockets?  Has the world been doing anything about the illegal settlements in the West Bank that Israel continues to expand?  No, so what makes you think it would be different in Gaza? 

The war was started because the Jews decided they had a right, by Gods will, to a territory that now was mostly inhabited by Arabs.  Thanks to the British they were given an over proportionate amount of land compared to their population after the Jewish tragedy of WWII.  What happened in WWII wasn't the Palestinians fault so Arabs rejected the partition proposal which led to war. The Jews were smarter and showed grit in winning against superior Arab forces in post WWII battles and have now become a dominant force in the region thanks to US aid over the years. The problem they have is they still have Gaza on their border and 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs.  They're huge obstacles and no matter how hard they try they won't be at peace, ever, until they fix the Palestinian problem.  They need to compromise but unfortunately until Zionists in Israel control the Knesset it will never happen.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

16 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm already regreting starting this thread. 

I wanted to point out discrepancies in the way that events are reported by.. hah.. the "main stream media". 

Perhaps it would have been better if I'd just shut up ?  

 

Is this supposed to be some sort of joke?

Israel kills Palestinians regularly and it's barely even covered - or when it is, we're so completely desensitised to Israel killing innocent civilians that it doesn't even register. Just this week a Palestinian medic died after being shot in the head while he was treating someone. Anyone here even hear about it? No? He was the fourth medic Israel has murdered in the last year. Medics.

Israel is really being made into the bad guy with no justification for it whatsoever. Just innocent occupiers victims. 

Israel kills more than 1 Palestinian child on average every week and has done so for the past 10 years, and yet RoofGardener tries to play victim when one story is misreported? 

And that's nothing. You should see the statistics for Operation Cast Lead and the 8 previous years. If the media was properly reporting what goes on in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, then we would see another story every time we turned on the news.

 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

On 6/17/2019 at 8:23 AM, RoofGardener said:

About 7000 Yemeni's have been killed since the Sunni intervention 5 years ago. That is more than the total number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security services in the last 25 years.

 

Also, I should add that this isn't true, as the links I supplied above will show. Not off by a crazy amount, but still not true.

[RoofGardener]

48 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Is this supposed to be some sort of joke?

Israel kills Palestinians regularly and it's barely even covered - or when it is, we're so completely desensitised to Israel killing innocent civilians that it doesn't even register. Just this week a Palestinian medic died after being shot in the head while he was treating someone. Anyone here even hear about it? No? He was the fourth medic Israel has murdered in the last year. Medics.

Medics who where in a premeditated, organised riot zone, and surrounded themselves with people throwing rocks and molotov cocktails. 

Palestinian deaths are covered quite extensively by - for example - the BBC, @ExpandMyMind. Of course, I cannot judge whether EVERY killing is covered, but I suspect it is !  Much moreso, say, then killings in Africa or the Yemen. (as Black Red Devil pointed out). 

And it is the disproportionate media coverage that impelled me to start this thread. I'm not looking to fight the Palestinian conflict all over again. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by RoofGardener

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

I understand your experience and I don't think Hamas is good for the Palestinians either.  But you have to consider that Israel has blockaded all access in and out of Gaza by air and sea, Palestinians in Gaza can't trade or build. ....

Umm.. just a minor quibble, but Israel isn't alone in doing this. Gaza has a land border with Egypt, remember. 

Strictly speaking, the sea at the Westernmost part of the Gaza Strip (near Khan Yunis) borders with Egyptian waters, so Gazan's can cross directly into Egyptian waters ? 

[RoofGardener]

59 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Also, I should add that this isn't true, as the links I supplied above will show. Not off by a crazy amount, but still not true.

Hmm.. I DID do that in a bit of a hurry.. how far out was I ? 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

5 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It isn't fake ****ing news.  How many times have you been to Israel?  I've lived there as a translator for 4 years.  I've made a point of meeting both sides, and I KNOW from first hand experience and the tacit admission of the Hammas fighters that this is a deliberate policy.  They told me to my face that this was what they were doing and why, as I expressed a measure of curiosity about their cause and potential sympathy as I said I didn't necessarily believe what the media told me.   Worse still, the great fools thought that they were doing nothing wrong; that is how savage they are, and in how little regard they hold their childrens' lives.  And that is one of many reasons why I will always support Israel over the scum who started the war in the first place.  Savages who lack the sense of proportion to protect their own children from danger don't deserve any regard, and given that Islam actively praises and promotes pedophilia, there is much worse going on. LINK from a lovely lady in my acquaintance.

Are you saying a Hamas fighter that you went to meet somewhere or a Hamas fighter that was captured by Israel? If it was the latter, I wouldn't trust his testimony.

Al, I have only heard this behavior blown up greatly in the media just this one time, prior to the Israeli invasion of Gaza. And I never heard it again - certainly not like that.

I understand you've been there but I am still not convinced that that is a fighting tactic of Palestinians. Never heard of it before, never heard of it since. I think you got set up to help spread the word. Just my opinion.

[ExpandMyMind]

36 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And it is the disproportionate media coverage that impelled me to start this thread. I'm not looking to fight the Palestinian conflict all over again. 

If this was what you were really doing then you'd just have started a thread about Yemen and maybe add in how millions of civilians are due to die as a result of the Saudis. But you didn't. This thread was designed, going from your OP, to say 'why criticise Israel. Look, someone way worse over there'.

Just because someone is worse (and the Saudi regime is undoubtedly worse than the Israeli government) doesn't negate the acts of others. And it should hardly surprise you that western media holds Israel - a supposed 'western' country and culture, and largely a colony of European descendants - to a higher standard. The western media has always largely ignored events like Rwanda, East Timor and the like when it suits them. Places and people that they see as different enough to ignore. Just look at China with their organ harvesting and Muslim concentration camps.

30 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. I DID do that in a bit of a hurry.. how far out was I ? 

Probably only around 20% or something, at a rough guess. I think the numbers between the first and second Intifadas are missing and it's a couple of thousand more than your figure before taking that into account.

[SHaYap]

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They bulldozed Rachel they did, poor wee Rachel... 

 

[00.08:58]

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Remember Rachel... 

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[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If this was what you were really doing then you'd just have started a thread about Yemen and maybe add in how millions of civilians are due to die as a result of the Saudis. But you didn't. This thread was designed, going from your OP, to say 'why criticise Israel. Look, someone way worse over there'.

......

< sigh>. I wasn't talking about Yemen per se , merely the double-standards of most mainstream media, which are relatively silent on Yemeni deaths, but scream from the rooftops whenever a Palestinian is killed. 

[Setton]

6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

< sigh>. I wasn't talking about Yemen per se , merely the double-standards of most mainstream media, which are relatively silent on Yemeni deaths, but scream from the rooftops whenever a Palestinian is killed. 

Except they don't. If EMM's data is correct, we'd never see any other news if the MSM actually did 'scream from the rooftops whenever a Palestinian is killed'. 

[RoofGardener]

9 minutes ago, Setton said:

Except they don't. If EMM's data is correct, we'd never see any other news if the MSM actually did 'scream from the rooftops whenever a Palestinian is killed'. 

That's not correct @Setton. The BBC would have reported all of those deaths. In some cases, they even name the dead. 

That doesn't happen with Yemen. Or any of the African conflicts that Black Red Devil mentioned !