Israel slammed for child deaths

[DarkHunter]

4 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

 

But the blockade wouldnt work if Egypt wasnt also blocking the same stuff Israel is blocking.  If Egypt isnt also blockading goods then why arent goods just entering in through Egypt, they do share a decent length of border.  Also every article I'm finding has Egypt having the border closed and not letting people or goods cross, not really seeing the difference between Israel and Egypt as both are not letting goods or people cross but only Israel gets condemned.

[+and-then]

Inconvenient truths will never be enough to derail the narrative about da JOOS being the catalyst for all the world's ills.  Notice how people confronted with truth and logic tend to disappear from the conversation, deny the truth even in the face of evidence or find some lame reason to insert a "but, but"?  Israel is guilty of heavy-handed reprisal occasionally and they have criminals in their governments from time to time, just like every other human-run organization.  The desire, need, even to blame Jews seems to be as old as the people are.  It's damned near supernatural, IMO.

[Jon the frog]

On 6/17/2019 at 6:08 AM, Tatetopa said:

Why do we even pretend to care?  If it was important to us, we would have done something about.  Let the faceless multitudes die on the other side of the world as long as it doesn't affect the kale and grits we have for dinner or the styling appointment that is vital before we attend church. 

Exactly, that's the way it is... 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Jon the frog

[pallidin]

Radical Islam slammed for child deaths...

You know, those weirdo's that suicide-bomb amongst children and babies?

[Black Red Devil]

40 minutes ago, and then said:

Which has nothing whatever to do with my statement?  The wall was built after Gaza was vacated and the Palestinians decided that Israel was weakening and could be pushed even further through violence.  That has always, ALWAYS been the pattern the Palestinians have followed.  It always will be because of their Islamic intransigence, blood lust and leaders who know how to rouse them to become murderous gangs.  

I mean, who do you really think believes any of the tripe you carry on with?  Israel is something like one of the top 10-12 most powerful military nations in the world and you expect people to really suck up to your 'Israel was weakening and could be pushed even further through violence'.  Hamas have become Israel's useful idiots in achieving their long awaited Zionist goal.

[SHaYap]

7 hours ago, and then said:

They might have done a more thorough job in teaching her the consequences of her actions.  She might well still be alive.  I don't think my query about the bulldozer was responded to, third.  It was a serious statement.  Bulldozers are amongst the slowest, most ponderous pieces of heavy equipment that exist.  Do you believe this young, agile 20 something couldn't get out of its way?  Do you believe the driver actually wanted to kill an American protester enough to attempt to run her down?  No, I believe that in their heart of hearts those parents know they failed her on some level.

You obviously didn't care enough to want to know the facts but instead chooses to judge and accuse based entirely on prejudices and sullying JC's good name while you're at it. Now you have the temerity to blame Rachel's family, but then again, I'm not surprised... 

I guess God or some God has something good lined up for you, 

~

[Black Red Devil]

36 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

But the blockade wouldnt work if Egypt wasnt also blocking the same stuff Israel is blocking.  If Egypt isnt also blockading goods then why arent goods just entering in through Egypt, they do share a decent length of border.  Also every article I'm finding has Egypt having the border closed and not letting people or goods cross, not really seeing the difference between Israel and Egypt as both are not letting goods or people cross but only Israel gets condemned.

That's not blockading, it's a land border and one side has closed it.  Under the cold war the Warsaw pact had something similar, although not as extreme.  It's Egypt's choice.  Instead Gaza is accessible by sea and air which has nothing to do with Israel, yet, Israel blockades their access.

[Black Red Devil]

37 minutes ago, and then said:

Inconvenient truths will never be enough to derail the narrative about da JOOS being the catalyst for all the world's ills.  Notice how people confronted with truth and logic tend to disappear from the conversation, deny the truth even in the face of evidence or find some lame reason to insert a "but, but"?  Israel is guilty of heavy-handed reprisal occasionally and they have criminals in their governments from time to time, just like every other human-run organization.  The desire, need, even to blame Jews seems to be as old as the people are.  It's damned near supernatural, IMO.

You managed to convince yourself of this.  People are running away from your unbiased truths and facts!! 

[DarkHunter]

10 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

That's not blockading, it's a land border and one side has closed it.  Under the cold war the Warsaw pact had something similar, although not as extreme.  It's Egypt's choice.  Instead Gaza is accessible by sea and air which has nothing to do with Israel, yet, Israel blockades their access.

How isnt it blockading, if Egypt opens its border with Gaza then whatever goods they need or want could go in but because Egypt keeps the border close, blocking the movement of goods and people, they cant get in.

While Gaza is accessible by sea and air they are also accessible by land threw Israel and Egypt which both have closed to stop the movement of goods and people.

No matter how you try to spin it Egypt is also blockading Gaza but you only want to blame Israel and not Egypt and try to play weird word and logic games to justify how only Israel is blockading Gaza, which to you is bad, while Egypt just merely strengthens its border and stops all goods and people from moving across the border, which is fine to you.

Edited June 20, 2019 by DarkHunter

[Black Red Devil]

20 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

How isnt it blockading, if Egypt opens its border with Gaza then whatever goods they need or want could go in but because Egypt keeps the border close, blocking the movement of goods and people, they cant get in.

While Gaza is accessible by sea and air they are also accessible by land threw Israel and Egypt which both have closed to stop the movement of goods and people.

No matter how you try to spin it Egypt is also blockading Gaza but you only want to blame Israel and not Egypt and try to play weird word and logic games to justify how only Israel is blockading Gaza, which to you is bad, while Egypt just merely strengthens its border and stops all goods and people from moving across the border, which is fine to you.

You just don't get it do you?  Nobody is obligated to open their borders with another country if they don't want to.  Nobody is obligated to trade with another country if they don't want to.  As far as Egypt is concerned Gaza can trade with whomever they want, but not through their borders.  On the other hand Israel has no right to block Gaza's passage to the sea or by air.  Gaza isn't entering into Israeli airspace or waters unless they do cross over into Israel.  Israel instead is. 

I don't know how this is so hard to understand?

[+and-then]

41 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I mean, who do you really think believes any of the tripe you carry on with?  Israel is something like one of the top 10-12 most powerful military nations in the world and you expect people to really suck up to your 'Israel was weakening and could be pushed even further through violence'.  Hamas have become Israel's useful idiots in achieving their long awaited Zionist goal.

So, is that an admission that the wall was built in response to the slaughter of their civilians, or are you incapable of being honest about the facts of the situation?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier 

"The barrier was built during the Second Intifada that began in September 2000, and was defended by the Israeli government as necessary to stop the wave of violence inside Israel that the uprising had brought with it.^[5] The Israeli government says that the barrier has been effective, as the number of suicide bombings carried out from the West Bank fell from 73 (between 2000 and July 2003 – the completion of the "first continuous segment"), to 12 (from August 2003 to the end of 2006).^[6][7] While the barrier was initially presented as a temporary security measure in a time of heightened tensions, it has since been rapidly associated with a future political border between Israel and Palestine."

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

You just don't get it do you?  Nobody is obligated to open their borders with another country if they don't want to.  Nobody is obligated to trade with another country if they don't want to.  As far as Egypt is concerned Gaza can trade with whomever they want, but not through their borders.  On the other hand Israel has no right to block Gaza's passage to the sea or by air.  Gaza isn't entering into Israeli airspace or waters unless they do cross over into Israel.  Israel instead is. 

I don't know how this is so hard to understand?

When you or those YOU love (if any) are subjected to daily threat of death by "neighbors", your voice will have some credence.  Until then, you just sound like a bleating partisan against one side in a feud.  Deal with it.  Or don't.

[+and-then]

35 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

No matter how you try to spin it Egypt is also blockading Gaza but you only want to blame Israel and not Egypt and try to play weird word and logic games to justify how only Israel is blockading Gaza, which to you is bad, while Egypt just merely strengthens its border and stops all goods and people from moving across the border, which is fine to you.

This sums him up concisely.  He - and millions of others like him - literally cannot see logic or truth beyond their hatred for the state of Israel.  They readily excuse the worst atrocities against Israeli civilians while bemoaning the death of Palestinians who were either actively trying to kill Jews or were being used as cover for those doing so.  Israel has existed since 5/14/1948.  That's 71 YEARS by my count yet they cling to the idea that someday the Israelis will simply pull up stakes and go into a self-imposed diaspora.  Ask them if any other similarly placed group in disputed lands should do the same and they'd probably be appalled.  It's nothing short of insanity.

[+and-then]

48 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

People are running away from your unbiased truths and facts!! 

An Den?  People are, as always, free to believe anything they are comfortable believing - psst... that includes ME   If people disagree with me I have zero problems with it or them.  Only when they twist my words to match their disapproval of my stances do I call them on it.  No one has the right to re-invent the beliefs of others for their own purposes.

[+and-then]

17 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Nobody is obligated to open their borders with another country if they don't want to. 

And in the same post you deny this right for Israel as though it ISN'T a legitimate, sovereign nation.  And you don't even see the hypocrisy, do you?

[Black Red Devil]

11 minutes ago, and then said:

And in the same post you deny this right for Israel as though it ISN'T a legitimate, sovereign nation.  And you don't even see the hypocrisy, do you?

Who's stopping Israel from trading?  If another country doesn't want to trade with them its their choice but nobody is stopping them from trading with whomever they want.  Are you arguing just for the sake of it or are you really this obtuse?

[Black Red Devil]

28 minutes ago, and then said:

When you or those YOU love (if any) are subjected to daily threat of death by "neighbors", your voice will have some credence.  Until then, you just sound like a bleating partisan against one side in a feud.  Deal with it.  Or don't.

Yeah I won't, but thanks/no thanks for the ill advice.  Do they pay you to be an internet speculation agent nor do you do it out of your own will?

[Black Red Devil]

38 minutes ago, and then said:

So, is that an admission that the wall was built in response to the slaughter of their civilians, or are you incapable of being honest about the facts of the situation?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier 

"The barrier was built during the Second Intifada that began in September 2000, and was defended by the Israeli government as necessary to stop the wave of violence inside Israel that the uprising had brought with it.^[5] The Israeli government says that the barrier has been effective, as the number of suicide bombings carried out from the West Bank fell from 73 (between 2000 and July 2003 – the completion of the "first continuous segment"), to 12 (from August 2003 to the end of 2006).^[6][7] While the barrier was initially presented as a temporary security measure in a time of heightened tensions, it has since been rapidly associated with a future political border between Israel and Palestine."

If you followed, I haven't been talking about the barrier, which is another illegal issue anyway.  I've been talking about the naval and air blockade.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

If you followed, I haven't been talking about the barrier, which is another illegal issue anyway.  I've been talking about the naval and air blockade.

They are all a part of stopping the murder of their citizens.  I guess the Israelis stopped one too many arms loaded ships from Tehran.  I'm also sure they have no interest in attempting to cultivate the goodwill of people who don't care how many of their children die to Palestinian murderers. 

[+and-then]

The bottom line is that they could be eradicated en masse and you probably wouldn't even make a noise about it.  Same with several others here.  The good news is your ambitons will never be fulfilled, quite the contrary, the Palestinian's hate will consume themselves eventually.  That "people" will cease to exist and so will their enablers.

[RoofGardener]

5 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

If you followed, I haven't been talking about the barrier, which is another illegal issue anyway.  I've been talking about the naval and air blockade.

Hmm.. so the land borders are "OK", but sea and air 'barriers' are inhumane, evil, racist, and fattening ? 

Well, it's a tricky one @Black Red Devil, and no mistake. The PLO have a history of smuggling weapons into the Gaza strip by boat. (or they HAD in the past), a habit that HAMAS has continued with to this day. And can you imagine if Gaza had an airport ? It would be RAINING light-aircraft suicide bomber pilots down on Tel Aviv. What is Israel supposed to do against this background ? 

Now, it might be worth stepping back a little, and considering when and how this blockade came into effect. It happened when HAMAS took over Gaza, and ejected (or killed) all of the FATAH representatives. The entire international community repudiated HAMAS... including the Palestinian Authority and the PLO. Indeed, the PA/PLO have frequently APPROVED of blockading measures, INCLUDING the naval blockade. (they where against a proposal by Turkey to build a port in Gaza). 

If HAMAS where evicted from control of the Gaza Strip, and control returned to the Palestinian Authority, then the blockades would disappear. 

[Phaeton80]

9 hours ago, and then said:

Young people make insane choices ALL THE TIME.  Her death was tragic but it was also her own responsibility.  She had no legal right to do what she did, she made the choice to stand in front of a bulldozer, even as she saw it was NOT going to be deterred and by the time she finally realized her little game of "chicken" was lost, it was just too damned late.  As I said, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Idolize her "courage" if you like.  Call her a "martyr" if you choose, just don't demand everyone else agree, yeah? 

Dude, if you were alive (and Pharisee) during the time of Christ you would be one of the loudest in the crowd demanding his crucifixion, claiming he's an enemy combatant, a criminal for driving the moneychangers from the temple, a dangerous revolutionary, a danger to the Sanhedrin and the Jewish faith, a terrorist..

'Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.' (How you can utter these disgusting words in this context is just nautiating)

And as Jeshua won a grand prize, so shall this girl receive hers on the other side. God bless her.

 

[Black Red Devil]

2 hours ago, and then said:

The bottom line is that they could be eradicated en masse and you probably wouldn't even make a noise about it.  Same with several others here.  The good news is your ambitons will never be fulfilled, quite the contrary, the Palestinian's hate will consume themselves eventually.  That "people" will cease to exist and so will their enablers.

The weasel in me sees another psycho murderous post wishing to eradicate millions from the Earth, pardon me, initially from Palestine and then the Earth.  But I'm sure you'll tell us we are all LIARS.

[Black Red Devil]

45 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. so the land borders are "OK", but sea and air 'barriers' are inhumane, evil, racist, and fattening ? 

Well, it's a tricky one @Black Red Devil, and no mistake. The PLO have a history of smuggling weapons into the Gaza strip by boat. (or they HAD in the past), a habit that HAMAS has continued with to this day. And can you imagine if Gaza had an airport ? It would be RAINING light-aircraft suicide bomber pilots down on Tel Aviv. What is Israel supposed to do against this background ? 

Now, it might be worth stepping back a little, and considering when and how this blockade came into effect. It happened when HAMAS took over Gaza, and ejected (or killed) all of the FATAH representatives. The entire international community repudiated HAMAS... including the Palestinian Authority and the PLO. Indeed, the PA/PLO have frequently APPROVED of blockading measures, INCLUDING the naval blockade. (they where against a proposal by Turkey to build a port in Gaza). 

If HAMAS where evicted from control of the Gaza Strip, and control returned to the Palestinian Authority, then the blockades would disappear. 

No the land borders aren't OK but I believe I read somewhere there is a partial blockade so something is filtering thru (obviously and thoroughly checked).  I don't know what they should do Roofy, but what they're currently doing isn't working, whether it's by lack of will, they don't want it to work or too big a problem.  The PA and Israel would have to sit down and work on a road map to move forward but I don't see that happening with the likes of Trump and Netanyahu.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

No the land borders aren't OK but I believe I read somewhere there is a partial blockade so something is filtering thru (obviously and thoroughly checked).  I don't know what they should do Roofy, but what they're currently doing isn't working, whether it's by lack of will, they don't want it to work or too big a problem.  The PA and Israel would have to sit down and work on a road map to move forward but I don't see that happening with the likes of Trump and Netanyahu.

The block isn't Trump or Netenyahu, @Black Red Devil. Any more than it was Bill Clinton and Yitzhak Rabin. 

The blockage was ALWAYS the Palestinian leadership. You can't negotiate peace when one side does not WANT peace.

This came to a head at Camp David in 2000. Arafat was presented with a proposal - purely a negotiating proposal - which answered almost all of the Palestinian requirements. Note that this was not presented as an "ultimatum" of any sort, merely the beginning of a negotiating proposal. 

Arafat took one look at it, and left the room. He then returned to Palestine and triggered the second intifada. 

He didn't say anything as he left the room. How could he ? He knew that the proposal heralded a realistic peace proposal for the first time. And THAT was exactly what he did NOT want. He didn't want peace.. he wanted to destroy Israel, and this peace proposal would force him to publicly acknowledge that fact if he tried to reject the proposal. So he didn't reject it.. he didn't comment on it.. he just silently walked, and triggered an uprising. 

Israel has tried to sit down, time and time again. And time and time again the Palestinian leadership has rejected peace. (or even publicly claimed to have accepted it, but immediately dishonoured it while the ink was still wet, such as in the Oslo accords ).

When it comes to peace, it takes two to tango. 

The Palestinian leadership doesn't want - and never has - to dance. Sadly, after 70 years of continuous betrayal, I don't think the Israeli's are in the mood to tango either. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by RoofGardener