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RoofGardener

Israel slammed for child deaths

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and then
50 minutes ago, Setton said:

And that's a hat trick.

3 times in a week you've explicitly supported the killing of innocents. 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  People who stand in front of bulldozers are hardly "innocents".  Arrogant yes, idiots possibly, but innocent, nope.

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Setton
47 minutes ago, and then said:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  People who stand in front of bulldozers are hardly "innocents".  Arrogant yes, idiots possibly, but innocent, nope.

So arrogance and stupidity are enough of a crime to warrant death?

You'd better find a very deep bunker. 

Edited by Setton
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and then
 
 
 
21 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Egypt (and Israel) are securing their borders via land, it's not a blockade per say.  Israel is actually impeding movement of goods in and out of Gaza via sea and air, even essential living necessities which is illegal.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=238_1406451164

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/03/gaza-palestinan-obesity-diseases-diet-fitness.html 

https://www.albawaba.com/mena_voices/battle-bulge-obesity-gaza-strip-rise-672854 

An Den?  An What?

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Phaeton80
2 hours ago, and then said:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  People who stand in front of bulldozers are hardly "innocents".  Arrogant yes, idiots possibly, but innocent, nope.


The most arrogant anti christian armchair coward calling a girl who literally stood up against the crimes against the Palestinians - while the world is pressured to look away, and does - in complete compassion and complete selfless sacrifice arrogant & dumb.

While ofcourse, hers is even more impressive than Tankman, an image known all over the world for its message; courage, righteousness, struggle against an oppressor, wrongful rule, revolution.. (recognize.. oh I dont know, any tenets of Christ's message, AT?)

Tianasquare.jpg

 

..And this dude thinks himself a Christian, lets not forget.

My god.

Edited by Phaeton80
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DarkHunter
4 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:


The most arrogant anti christian armchair coward calling a little girl who literally stood up against the crimes against the Palestinians - while the world is pressured to look away, and does - in complete compassion and complete selfless sacrifice arrogant & dumb.

And this dude thinks himself a Christian, lets not forget.

My god.

The little girl was 24 years old

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Phaeton80

Oh thats allright then.

(corrected, and to be clear; thats cynicism)

Edited by Phaeton80

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Black Red Devil
13 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

That is not pertinent to the Gaza Strip :) 

In addition, Egypt restricts physical materials crossing at their Rafah border, just as Israel does at their borders. However, not by as much as you might imagine. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing

HAMAS has attacked this border crossing three times. So clearly the smooth import of vital materials is not a high priority to them ? 

I was referring to Palestinians in general not just the Gaza and again, I'm disputing the air and sea blockade, which by international law is illegal.

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Black Red Devil
19 hours ago, and then said:

Hissy fit?  You mean when I called you an effing liar in no uncertain terms, THAT "hissy fit"?  That's a strange way to defend yourself but if it works for you, so be it :w00t:  Trust me Essie old sock, old shoe, you aren't unique or bold.  There are at least three others here who've tried that whole "you said" when it was actually "I say, you said" and it never works.  When called out and told to cite the post where I've said "X"... they change the subject and move on, like the weasels they are and everyone sees them for what they are, every time.  But gopher it!  Sure and you might get lucky someday and convince someone :) 

Wow and I thought I was the only 'weasel' that noticed your psycho genocidal wishes, but there are at least another three!!  You poor victim. :P

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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, and then said:

I didn't say they were starving but there are other living necessities like electricity, infrastructure, jobs, public health etc.  Even pigs are obese in cages.

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Black Red Devil
9 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It isn't just Hamas.  The PLO and many of the other Palestinian organizations have had AMPLE opportunity to seek and obtain peace.  They cannot even accept that Israel has a right to exist.  They always say "What Israel?", and then set about some elaborate prevarication so they don't have to say that they accept that Israel has a right to exist.  This means that in their hearts they have always demanded genocide, as was the case in 1947 when they promised to drive the Jews into the sea.  I am not Jewish, but this not an acceptable attitude imo.

 

Mate that's absolute rubbish.  Netanyahu has and never has had any intention in sitting down at the negotiating table.  He finds every excuse to downplay the peace process so he can continue bulldozing and building settlements.  In '47 the Arabs did start a war with the Jews but troubles started before that when the British allowed large numbers of Jewish migrants into the Mandate which was mostly occupied by Arabs.  Look at Europe's reaction to migrants flooding in from Africa and the Middle East these days,as an example.

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

 

That is entirely because of the Mafia organization that runs their lives.  That organization routinely sells the materials they are sent for rebuilding to Israel for money for guns.  Did you know that the wall was built using concrete bought from the PLO for rebuilding?  As to the fact that Gaza has no jobs, money, or future well, the Palestinians made it a war zone by repeatedly attacking Israel.  The fact is, the business of the region is organized crime, and forming brutal militias to oppress their own people.  If they live in hell it is of their own making.  By saying that is somehow bad, and blaming Israel for it, you are playing into the hands of some of the worst people I have ever met.

 

As I said, I don't trust Hamas, but I don't trust Israel either.  In the end the ones all Health Organisations blame are the Israeli's for blockading the goods.  Here's an article from the NY Times I agree with.

Why Do Israel and Gaza Keep Fighting? Because It’s in Their Leaders’ Interests.

The cycle of violence-ceasefire-repeat that keeps verging on all-out war may look like pointless destruction to the outside world. But analysts say it is amply serving the interests of the two main antagonists.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel gets to batter Hamas, the militant group that controls Gaza, while bolstering his argument that the Palestinians are not ready for peace and that a two-state solution is impossible.

Hamas, which sought and apparently received renewed assurances of a loosening of the Israeli blockade of Gaza, gets to show skeptical, impoverished Gaza residents that its strategy of armed resistance is working.

 

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Yes.  It is Hamas' fault.  The're a criminal organization with about as much legitimacy as the Russian mob and grubbier tactics.  Nobody talks about how they rape their own to force their loyalty and compliance.  Look, Israel is no beacon of shining light, but they didn't start the war.  The Palestinians actively sought to attack the Jews, largely due to the British using divide and conquer tactics during the days of the Mandate, but ultimately because they are xenophobic.  The early Zionist proposals for Palestine was utterly inclusive of the Palestinians, and there are in fact plenty of Palestinian Arabs living in Israel with full citizenship, but nobody talks about them  LINK.  It is always the criminals living "beyond the pale" that get the attention.  Hamas could use their cash for rebuilding and living in peace, but instead they shoot rockets at Israel, an Israel bombs them in return.  This suits Hamas much as it suited the IRA.  While the conflict continues, Hamas have a free hand to control and abuse their people.  They're the worst sort of scum, and pro-Nazi to boot, despite the fact that Nazis would just gas them.

You need to read up on Zionism.  The creation of Zionism has always been about a Jewish State which means if you live in Israel you live under Jewish Laws.  Similar to Saudi Arabia which lives under Islamic Laws.  Netanyahu suggested Israel become a Jewish State not long ago but it was rebuked by the Knesset at the time.  The more Zionism stays in power, the more chances it may happen.  You tak about plenty of Palestinians living in Israel, well it's originally their land too and if Israel did become a Jewish State they would be forced to accept the practices of a religion they don't worship.  I understand the will of the average Jews to be a sovereign nation like many others, to finally have a land they call their own, to practice their religion freely, live without discrimination or hatred but unfortunately the land they chose was largely inhabited by another sect and the last historical moment that land was theirs goes back thousands of years. It just won't happen unless they both compromise and Zionist won't compromise, neither will Hamas probably but the PA will and they are the elected Palestinian authority.  That's their answer.

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2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Oh thats allright then.

(corrected, and to be clear; thats cynicism)

Young people make insane choices ALL THE TIME.  Her death was tragic but it was also her own responsibility.  She had no legal right to do what she did, she made the choice to stand in front of a bulldozer, even as she saw it was NOT going to be deterred and by the time she finally realized her little game of "chicken" was lost, it was just too damned late.  As I said, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Idolize her "courage" if you like.  Call her a "martyr" if you choose, just don't demand everyone else agree, yeah? 

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2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I was referring to Palestinians in general not just the Gaza and again, I'm disputing the air and sea blockade, which by international law is illegal.

So is the random bombardment, driving down or stabbing of civilians in Israel but the "international community" doesn't seem to get upset by that, do they?  Do you recognize a pattern here?  I bet you do and that you will share it with us.

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27 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

but unfortunately the land they chose was largely inhabited by another sect and the last historical moment that land was theirs goes back thousands of years. It just won't happen unless they both compromise and Zionist won't compromise, neither will Hamas probably but the PA will and they are the elected Palestinian authority.  That's their answer.

They vacated Gaza, they got rockets and suicide bombers.  They vacated southern Lebanon, they got rockets and suicide bombers.  Now people want them to vacate most of Judea and Samaria and defacto divide Jerusalem and share it with deadly enemies.  They will probably be coerced by Trump to do just this.  Who, exactly, is it that "won't compromise"?  A "peace deal" will come.  It will be signed by Israel and multiple other nations - EU, U.S. and others as well as the Palestinians.  Once again, the Palestinians will get most of what they want and Israel will get promises of better behavior.  When the Palestinians break THIS one and the world shrugs and looks the other way, the Palestinians will cease to exist as a unified entity.  Unfortunately, millions of Israelis will die as well but that's what happens when your leaders make "a covenant with death".  They were warned in their Holy writ and they will ignore it, to their extreme loss.

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Black Red Devil
12 minutes ago, and then said:

So is the random bombardment, driving down or stabbing of civilians in Israel but the "international community" doesn't seem to get upset by that, do they?  Do you recognize a pattern here?  I bet you do and that you will share it with us.

Are the bombings and stabbings illegal by I'nal community standards?  Yes  Is the blockade illegal?  Yes  But the Govt of Israel doesn't think so, while Hamas hasn't a spot on the table in the international community, yet both behave like thugs.

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Black Red Devil
4 minutes ago, and then said:

They vacated Gaza, they got rockets and suicide bombers.  They vacated southern Lebanon, they got rockets and suicide bombers.  Now people want them to vacate most of Judea and Samaria and defacto divide Jerusalem and share it with deadly enemies.  They will probably be coerced by Trump to do just this.  Who, exactly, is it that "won't compromise"?  A "peace deal" will come.  It will be signed by Israel and multiple other nations - EU, U.S. and others as well as the Palestinians.  Once again, the Palestinians will get most of what they want and Israel will get promises of better behavior.  When the Palestinians break THIS one and the world shrugs and looks the other way, the Palestinians will cease to exist as a unified entity.  Unfortunately, millions of Israelis will die as well but that's what happens when your leaders make "a covenant with death".  They were warned in their Holy writ and they will ignore it, to their extreme loss.

You're getting prophetic again.  :lol:  They vacated Gaza and built a blockade around it.  I call that a prison and Southern Lebanon was part of Lebanon the last time I looked at a map.

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3 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Are the bombings and stabbings illegal by I'nal community standards?  Yes  Is the blockade illegal?  Yes  But the Govt of Israel doesn't think so, while Hamas hasn't a spot on the table in the international community, yet both behave like thugs.

So you'd expect Israelis to just report the death and maiming of their families to police and the international community and leave it at that?

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Just now, Black Red Devil said:

You're getting prophetic again.  :lol:  They vacated Gaza and built a blockade around it.  I call that a prison and Southern Lebanon was part of Lebanon the last time I looked at a map.

They only built that wall AFTER they buried hundreds of their civilians that died on mangled buses, devastated shopping centers and Pizza parlors.  Get the history right.

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DarkHunter

Maybe this was covered already in this thread and I just havent seen it, I'll admit I largely just skimmed this except for this page and the last, but why is Israel only getting condemned for the Gaza blockade when Egypt is also involved with said blockade.  Israel blockades the north, east, coast line, and air of Gaza but Egypt blockades the south of Gaza and has done a lot to destroy smuggling tunnels from Egypt into Gaza.  

Just curious why only Israel gets condemned when Egypt is doing the blockade also.

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Black Red Devil
12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Incorrect.  You need to read a less biased history book, or at least read both sides.  The war started because of the British Mandate.  The Jews wanted their own homeland after getting sick of being persecuted across Europe.  Their initial efforts in Palestine were very friendly and accommodating of the Palestinians.  The purchase of land in Palestine by the Jews was gradual, and had been going on since the 1880s LINK.  The Jews offered good prices for the land, but various unscrupulous operators among the Palestinians began to use shabby lending practices to get control of other Palestinians' land and sell it at a profit, then blame the Jews.  Then the British realized that the Jews were serious so they started fermenting further Palestinian hostility towards Israel so that their Imperial forces would be seen as necessary to keep the peace.  The Palestinains due to their muslim xenophobia didn't need much encouragement.  The Grand Mufti of Palestine was eager to drive the Jews out, and was a huge fan of Adolf Hitler, thinking that with Britain and the Jews gone, he would be king.  This was the man who was Yasser Arafat's mentor btw.  The Palestinians in 1947 said that they would drive the Jews into the sea, and they failed.  Was the Jewish claim to Israel neo-colonialism?  A bit, but there had been a permanent presence of Jews in the territory despite the enforced Roman Diaspora, pretty much forever.  It can and has been proven with census documents.  I consider the British and the Palestinians equally to blame for starting the conflict.  Original Jewish Zionist proposals were for a state that respected existing religious sites, and granted full citizenship, voting rights and religious freedoms to everybody.  These days, having fought many wars, the Jews are less forgiving and reasonable.  I understand why.

 

Where are you getting your info from, the Jerusalem Post?  So, in your mind Palestinians should have been happy that a large number of migrants were being accepted by other rulers (the British) without them having a say on the matter, which they didn't?  As you point out, they actually were happy with Jews until they started realising it was becoming an invasion You're also right on two accounts, it all started in the 1800's and exploded in 1947 by the Arabs but it's too simple to say it was the Palestinians that started the hostilities. Numbers below are in the 000's

Year

Jews

Christians

Muslims

Total

1800

7

22

246

275

1890

43

57

432

532

1914

94

70

525

689

1922

84

71

589

752

1931

175

89

760

1,033

1947

630

143

1,181

1,970

 As you can notice the migration was gradual but by 1947 Arabs still doubled them in population and yet, the UN Partition Plan  gave the Jews an almost equal slice of the territory while at the time Jews only owned 7% of the land.  Not only, assigned Jewish land included arable areas and most access to the Sea of Galilee where the regions water supplies came from and sole access to the Red Sea. Hence the reason Arabs didn't accept a Jewish State and became belligerent.

         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
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Black Red Devil
34 minutes ago, and then said:

So you'd expect Israelis to just report the death and maiming of their families to police and the international community and leave it at that?

No I expect them to realise they are breaking international law by blockading and conducting heavy handed over the top raids on civilians.  I expect them to stop finding excuses to bulldoze and build in the West Bank.  I expect them to realise they are a sovereign state and act like one and not like street thugs.

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Black Red Devil
39 minutes ago, and then said:

They only built that wall AFTER they buried hundreds of their civilians that died on mangled buses, devastated shopping centers and Pizza parlors.  Get the history right.

Yeah in fact numbers show who have killed the most.  :P

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Black Red Devil
11 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Maybe this was covered already in this thread and I just havent seen it, I'll admit I largely just skimmed this except for this page and the last, but why is Israel only getting condemned for the Gaza blockade when Egypt is also involved with said blockade.  Israel blockades the north, east, coast line, and air of Gaza but Egypt blockades the south of Gaza and has done a lot to destroy smuggling tunnels from Egypt into Gaza.  

Just curious why only Israel gets condemned when Egypt is doing the blockade also.

 

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and then
2 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yeah in fact numbers show who have killed the most.  :P

Which has nothing whatever to do with my statement?  The wall was built after Gaza was vacated and the Palestinians decided that Israel was weakening and could be pushed even further through violence.  That has always, ALWAYS been the pattern the Palestinians have followed.  It always will be because of their Islamic intransigence, blood lust and leaders who know how to rouse them to become murderous gangs.  

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