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Manwon Lender

The Ghost Of the Brown Lady

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the13bats
33 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No im always looking for the logical explanations and there are only a few experiences in my life where I would pound the desk and insist I saw for sure what I saw and even then I wouldnt be mad at folks who dont believe me.

 

and that is where you are a better person than many and have my respect,

i believe you saw "something" but was what you saw in this world or just your mind, i have myself had experences i cant explain but i seek the answer not just dismiss it as paranormal supernatural, in my case i belive it was all in my mind, had it kept happening i would have sought out evaluation from mental health care.

i can also fully understand why someone else would only except paranormal in my case, im not trying to insult anyone and wish it wasnt taken as such, i like figuring things out.

 

22 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I have no idea, however the magazine they were.sent to take pictures for also claims to still have the original negatives from the shoot, including the negative of this photo.

my point is only if the photographers want to claim they captured a ghost then they need to be open for questions and examination of the very little evidence, this is very fair,

if their arguement for getting this shot was they had already taken pics of the stairs its not a reach for any researcher to ask for all pictures taken at that shoot and of course the negatives which can prove or disprove any tampering at that level,

i still believe its just a camera error.

heres another,

images(49).jpg.32199e5fe3ffc1f6d0556b45cabaaf65.jpg

some say ghost of a monk, the photographers story of a long exposure that he watched doesn't wash with me as the photo analysis experts of arthur c clarke say this is likely a cleaning lady, with bucket who photo bombed the shot which i agree with but its a great example of perception some might say say they see the monk.

i will be the first to admit paranormal and supernatural is far cooler sounding most times than reality.

 

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openozy
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

No im always looking for the logical explanations and there are only a few experiences in my life where I would pound the desk and insist I saw for sure what I saw and even then I wouldnt be mad at folks who dont believe me.

 

That's true of most open people,I now think its sad some will never experience these things.

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moonman
Posted (edited)

After discussing this in another thread, I think the "ghost" is just dust illuminated by a well placed ray of sunlight. You can see what looks like a shaft of sunlight pointing down at it with angles that correspond to the height of it and the bright line on the stairs behind it.

If we knew things like window placement, the time of day it was taken, etc, it would help.

Edited by moonman
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'Walt' E. Kurtz
8 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Why is that?

 

Hoxes are pretty common either for fame and financial gain etc.. I believe this picure is a double exposure but i agree with the above it's one of the coolest "ghost photos"  :)

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the13bats
17 minutes ago, moonman said:

After discussing this in another thread, I think the "ghost" is just dust illuminated by a well placed ray of sunlight. You can see what looks like a shaft of sunlight pointing down at it with angles that correspond to the height of it and the bright line on the stairs behind it.

If we knew things like window placement, the time of day it was taken, etc, it would help.

you know you might have nailed it, looking at the pic again parts of the rails are rather bright and there is a bright patch at the subjects lower left side, and what looks like a beam

since i dont buy the photographers story and what you suggest really fits im good on this one for now.

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moonman
9 minutes ago, the13bats said:

you know you might have nailed it, looking at the pic again parts of the rails are rather bright and there is a bright patch at the subjects lower left side, and what looks like a beam

since i dont buy the photographers story and what you suggest really fits im good on this one for now.

I didn't noticing the rails, good catch. It fits right into my idea.

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Desertrat56

Why is it called the brown lady?  It looks like a shadow of the madonna statue.

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Impedancer said:

Hoxes are pretty common either for fame and financial gain etc.. 

Of course there are 'hoaxers' of many types in the world but I think the suspicion level in the realm of the paranormal is overdone particularly in this age of the internet where there is little fortune or fame to be gained from yet another paranormal claim. Now this photo was from 1936 and rather famous and apparently never conclusively determined to be a fraud. The photographer claims no fraud. I estimated 55% chance of  genuine above.

1 hour ago, Impedancer said:

I believe this picure is a double exposure but i agree with the above it's one of the coolest "ghost photos"  :)

I guess I would not have such positive positive feelings about something I thought was intended to deceive.

Edited by papageorge1
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the13bats
22 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Of course there are 'hoaxers' of many types in the world but I think the suspicion level in the realm of the paranormal is overdone particularly in this age of the internet where there is little fortune or fame to be gained from yet another paranormal claim. Now this photo was from 1936 and rather famous and apparently never conclusively determined to be a fraud. The photographer claims no fraud. I estimated 55% chance of  genuine above.

I guess I would not have such positive positive feelings about something I thought was intended to deceive.

seems the net has made the amount of hoaxes explode and i see most just want attention 80m fb hits and they are happy,

seems the numbers seeking $$$ hasnt really jumped in proportion,

also i do not believe all start out to be hoaxes someone sees something cool after the fact and runs with it.

i was involved with a hoax that went badly so i do not pull hoaxes myself anymore.

i find fun in being fooled and then solving it, so i can feel very positive about a good hoax pulled on me,  if someone lost $$$ on it well that was them being dumb, no one forced jack to buy the beans,

 

http://www.xenophon.org.uk/indreshira.html

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, the13bats said:

 

also i do not believe all start out to be hoaxes someone sees something cool after the fact and runs with it.

 

In my word usage that is not a hoax but a misinterpretation. The intentional hoaxers are what I hate.

16 minutes ago, the13bats said:

There are always many skeptics and proponents of anything paranormal. It takes some imagination to see those statues in the original photo. The trusty Papameter holds at 55% Chance of paranormal for the photo. 85% Chance there is ghostly phenomena at the location.

Edited by papageorge1

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the13bats
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

In my word usage that is not a hoax but a misinterpretation. The intentional hoaxers are what I hate.

There are always many skeptics and proponents of anything paranormal. The trusty Papameter holds at 55% Chance of paranormal for the photo. 85% Chance there is ghostly phenomena at the location.

why hate? really? tell me why please

trusty meter? isnt paranormal and ghostly phenomena the same thing?

whats a bit odd to me is why an alleged ghost picture of the alleged brown lady would look "hauntingly" like a small statue of a praying virgin mary in a clever double exposure hoax....hum.

20190618_124127-381x496.jpg.a262bbbf9809fecdfe77ffbb1549ed76.jpg

Edited by the13bats
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papageorge1
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

why hate? really? tell me why please

These things affect people's view of reality and the spiritual. We should not intentionally deceive people. 

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

 

whats a bit odd to me is why an alleged ghost picture of the alleged brown lady would look "hauntingly" like a small statue of a praying virgin mary in a clever double exposure hoax....hum.

20190618_124127-381x496.jpg.a262bbbf9809fecdfe77ffbb1549ed76.jpg

Well, there is insufficient detail to decide. And with a million statues in existence it would not be any great feat to find a best fit and claim it's solved. Women can look very similar with that lack of detail. And I'm not saying it can't be a double-exposure intentional fraud and a lying photographer so I will remain open-minded to that possibility.

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XenoFish
5 hours ago, moonman said:

I didn't noticing the rails, good catch. It fits right into my idea.

Could even been done with varying the exposure. 

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Manwon Lender
10 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why is it called the brown lady?  It looks like a shadow of the madonna statue.

The reason they call the brown lady is because in other sightings of her the image was fully formed, and she wearing brown clothing.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, moonman said:

After discussing this in another thread, I think the "ghost" is just dust illuminated by a well placed ray of sunlight. You can see what looks like a shaft of sunlight pointing down at it with angles that correspond to the height of it and the bright line on the stairs behind it.

If we knew things like window placement, the time of day it was taken, etc, it would help.

The brightness of the stairs and the railings are due to a flash that was used when the picture was taken according to the story printed in Wikipedia. 

Here is link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Lady_of_Raynham_Hall 

Edited by Manwon Lender

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the13bats
Posted (edited)

pg, a hoax to me is about like a good suspense thriller, and i love to solve a mystery, if a persons reality and spirituality can be effected by being fooled by a hoax i have to question how firmly fixed their beliefs were to start with.

 

i feel like i stumbled through this one like Carl Kolchak

its interesting that there is a window out of frame at top of stairs, and light is coming in and at the right angle to reflect on the rails etc, or the alleged flash reflected off a glass window to give the effect we see, a bit odd that photographers would use a flash to capture an alleged ghost, i wonder what made them believe an alleged ghost can or should be lit by flash, or how did they see it with no flash?

i dont care too much about the alleged brown lady ghost sightings or its later tacked on connection to this highly likely hoaxed photo,

i didnt have to hunt through millions of virgin mary statues to find what as a true believer calls it a "best fit" actually the 2 i used only as examples were in the first 5 that popped up, one you can buy on Amazon.

when i made that last post i was tired, been up a long time i thought illuminated dust sounded good what made me go this direction was i went hunting a less cropped version of this photo and found not only a picture showing the window at the top of the stairs but under the stairs was a Catholic style alter,

i collect religious items and something d-rat posted hit me,  i have always been a bit bugged that if the stairs are about 4ft wide it makes for a very short ghost, but if this isnt "just" dust but actually a deliberate double exposure type hoax then a small mary statue does fit right in, right on rat!

so i believe this is some interesting lighting and a double exposure hoax done with a small easy to find, millions out there right? mary statue,

have i with the help of others on here proven this a solved hoax? no, true believers will continue to grasp, but for me i am done and content that its a hoax albeit a clever one.

B

Edited by the13bats
capt typo
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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, the13bats said:

pg, a hoax to me is about like a good suspense thriller, and i love to solve a mystery, if a persons reality and spirituality can be effected by being fooled by a hoax i have to question how firmly fixed their beliefs were to start with.

 

i feel like i stumbled through this one like Carl Kolchak

its interesting that there is a window out of frame at top of stairs, and light is coming in and at the right angle to reflect on the rails etc, or the alleged flash reflected off a glass window to give the effect we see, a bit odd that photographers would use a flash to capture an alleged ghost, i wonder what made them believe an alleged ghost can or should be lit by flash, or how did they see it with no flash?

i dont care too much about the alleged brown lady ghost sightings or its later tacked on connection to this highly likely hoaxed photo,

i didnt have to hunt through millions of virgin mary statues to find what as a true believer calls it a "best fit" actually the 2 i used only as examples were in the first 5 that popped up, one you can buy on Amazon.

when i made that last post i was tired, been up a long time i thought illuminated dust sounded good what made me go this direction was i went hunting a less cropped version of this photo and found not only a picture showing the window at the top of the stairs but under the stairs was a Catholic style alter,

i collect religious items and something d-rat posted hit me,  i have always been a bit bugged that if the stairs are about 4ft wide it makes for a very short ghost, but if this isnt "just" dust but actually a deliberate double exposure type hoax then a small mary statue does fit right in, right on rat!

so i believe this is some interesting lighting and a double exposure hoax done with a small easy to find, millions out there right? mary statue,

have i with the help of others on here proven this a solved hoax? no, true believers will continue to grasp, but for me i am done and content that its a hoax albeit a clever one.

 

Thanks for you input, you may have found what others have missed for many years. I will try to find some other interesting photos and post them.

Thanks

 

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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the13bats
14 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thanks for you input, you may have found what others have missed for many years. I will try to find some other interesting photos and post them.

Thanks

 

 

 

thank you but i stumbled and bumbled this one, moonman and d-rat planted the seeds for me i just let my OCD drive, lol, and got lucky.

actually i dont believe too many people even look much at this old stuff, some will think its really a ghost others will think hoax, both sides will move on.

 

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the13bats

i noticed something else im just too OCD not to add,

 

20190618_124127-381x496.jpg.a262bbbf9809fecdfe77ffbb1549ed76.jpg

look at the alleged ghost and my added statues, the 3 line up pretty well, the "ghost" is very well centered in the image but the staircase is not, in fact if there was no "ghost" the staircase photo would be pretty crappy,  the "ghost" wouldnt be coming straight down the stairs but down at an odd angle.

to me this screams of the "ghost" was in a purpose made to double expose image, all centered and perfect  and when the staircase part was shot the "ghost" remains centered the stairs arent.

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Don Caesar
On 19/06/2019 at 12:24 PM, the13bats said:

i noticed something else im just too OCD not to add,

 

20190618_124127-381x496.jpg.a262bbbf9809fecdfe77ffbb1549ed76.jpg

look at the alleged ghost and my added statues, the 3 line up pretty well, the "ghost" is very well centered in the image but the staircase is not, in fact if there was no "ghost" the staircase photo would be pretty crappy,  the "ghost" wouldnt be coming straight down the stairs but down at an odd angle.

to me this screams of the "ghost" was in a purpose made to double expose image, all centered and perfect  and when the staircase part was shot the "ghost" remains centered the stairs arent.

The ‘ghost’ must’ve been a diminutive person in life - it looks undersized compared to the steps.

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the13bats
6 hours ago, Don Caesar said:

The ‘ghost’ must’ve been a diminutive person in life - it looks undersized compared to the steps.

correct, if we go by the steps a ghost 4ft or less

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ScotDeerie
Posted (edited)
On 6/18/2019 at 2:47 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Hey I would love this photo to be real. However there is a great deal of controversy that surrounds this photo. I don't have the ability to prove the photo's authenticity, if I did I would try. So with that said I don't base my personnel opinions on my personnel feeling without proof. But none of this matters, I love the photo, and I will always hope that it is real.

i have read the research into this photo and to date it could go either way so like I said in my first post.  I said I just don't know for certain.and that is where I have to leave it.

IIRC,  Fortean Times Mag did a story on it that included a photo of the staircase without the "ghost". The railing is straight and true from top to bottom. The "jog" or slight displacement at the level of the ghost was thought to be an indication of a double exposure, intentional or not.  Image result for raynham hall stairway

Edited by ScotDeerie
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ScotDeerie

This was always one of my favorite ghost photos but, sadly, it is a time lapse exposure. Still like it, though.  Too bad the "ghost" elected to wear a visible ring that repeated in each image...  :(   image.jpeg.a2bb62da328b76e3f1f3d009a88cfe8d.jpeg

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ScotDeerie
2 hours ago, ScotDeerie said:

IIRC,  Fortean Times Mag did a story on it that included a photo of the staircase without the "ghost". The railing is straight and true from top to bottom. The "jog" or slight displacement at the level of the ghost was thought to be an indication of a double exposure, intentional or not.  Image result for raynham hall stairway

This is the other portion of the stairway.  Neither has a jog in the railing although this one has an interesting landing where the railing raises UP a bit.  Still, neither match the displacement shown in the ghost photo.  504afdaa78d548ebf353d417910296d8.jpg

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ScotDeerie
On 6/18/2019 at 4:07 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Hey partner thanks for the link. However, Wikipedia has a much better in depth information concerning the story of the Brown lady and the circumstances of how the photo was taken. According to them the camera was already setup, because they had been taking photos of the stairway.

thanks

That is the way the story has been told over the years. The photographer didn’t see it but the assistant did and told him to take the photo. 

As for the negative still being in existence (from an earlier post) a double exposure in the camera  would produce a negative that looked otherwise untampered with.

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