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Babs

'god was female'

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Seraphina
They would use men to reproduce, then kill them.

Yeah, and as we all know, that's the way forward dontgetit.gif

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SilverCougar

Here's a less fem militant explination.

However.. it was not the Goddess being turned into God... but the Goddess being demoted to the Virgin Mary. Which explains why the Catholic branches of christianity are so devoted to her.

The beginning of the Hebrew religion with its God Yahweh is said to have marked the end of the Goddess' Golden Age. Approximately this was between 1800 - 1500 BC when the prophet Abraham lived in Canaan.

The Christian Church, and especially the Roman Catholic Church, has fought hard to suppress or root out all Goddess worship. The Goddess along with all pagan deities were labeled as evil. But, little proof has been offered for this. One notable example is The Canon Episcopi.

Even though the Church attempted to completely abolish Goddess worship it never successfully did so. Remanents of it remained within the hearts of the people. An example of such devotion is seen within the actions of the people during the Church Council of Ephesus (432 AD). Until Christianized Ephesus had been a sacred city where the Divine Mother was worshiped by "all Asia and the world" (Acts 19:27). Also in this city of Ephesus, as elsewhere, she was called Mother of Animals. "Her most famous Ephesus image had a torso covered with breasts, showing her ability to nurture the whole world." During this council of bishops people rioted in the streets demanding the worshipping of the Goddess be restored. The prime candidate was Mary, the Virgin and Mother of Christ. The bishops conceded so far in allowing Mary to be called the Mother of God, but the forbade her to be called Mother Goddess or Goddess.

To the very present many, both Catholics and especially Protestants, wonder why Catholics have a great devotion toward the Virgin Mary. Few know the occurrences at Ephesus, and that this devotion is probably the long surviving remanent of their early ancestors' devotion to the Goddess. A.G.H.

and to understand why the Goddess was demoted... the Goddess is said to be creatress, virgin, mother, destroyer, warrior, huntress, homemaker, wife, artist, jurist, healer and sorcerer. Her roles or abilities increased with the advancement of the cultures which worshipped her.

She could represent a queen with a consort, or lover. She might bear a son who died young or was sacrificed only to rise again representing the annual birth-death-rebirth cycle of the seasons. (quoted)

Basicaly, Jesus is her son that rises again.. like always... however humanity turned it from the seasons... the Jewish folk took on hope for a messiah... and the christians took this old belief in a virgin birth and turned Jesus into that. But took him away from nature.. from the seasons. And he only rised once, but is celebrated every year.

There's a reason Jesus's birth is celebrated near Yule. Yule for the celtics and Norse was when the Goddess gave birth to her son (lover/consort as well). The dieing and raising coralates with Ostara. It is a time of rebirth.. of comming back to life.

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Stellar
They would use men to reproduce, then kill them.

Wait... I thought you said that the world would be more peaceful if the leaders were women!?

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Babs

It's obvious that a few here commenting on domestic violence haven't studied domestic violence. Domestic violence is more widespread than you might think. yes.gif Much of the violence is kept underwraps. ph34r.gif

And I know exactly what role the female victim plays in domestic violence. Don't kid yourself, the female is the lower man on the totem pole, she gets the brunt of (his) violence. Same goes for the same sex unions, where the individual who plays 'the feminine' gets the brunt of violence.

Could we get off the violence and back to topic?

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RaginCajun
It's obvious that a few here commenting on domestic violence haven't studied domestic violence. Domestic violence is more widespread than you might think. yes.gif  Much of the violence is kept underwraps. ph34r.gif

And I know exactly what role the female victim plays in domestic violence. Don't kid yourself, the female is the lower man on the totem pole, she gets the brunt of (his) violence. Same goes for the same sex unions, where the individual who plays 'the feminine' gets the brunt of violence.

Could we get off the violence and back to topic?

472562[/snapback]

stereotype...stereotype...so you have studied this subject huh??? males get beat too...

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Michelle

Babs, you are the one that keeps bringing up the domestic violence and now you're asking us to get off it?

I was a victim, one time... and I will not let it dictate how I spend the rest of my life. I admire the fact that you work with battered women, but I am also afraid of the message that you're sending them.

I refuse to let "one person" cloud how I judge the rest of humanity...and I do not believe that men are the root af all evil.

blush.gif I had to get that off my chest.....

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SilverCougar

*thinks her attempts to bring the topic back on track failed*

... story of my life -.-

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Monkyburd

Wow... just.. wow. mellow.gif

Alright, the very first piece of artwork made by ancient cavemen is the Venus of Willendorf, basically an abstract rock sculpture of the female figure. Many of these mini Venus's have been discovered around Europe, and they are believed to be Fertility idols. Fertility was seen as a religious experience by ancient man, because of multiple reasons (new life, high risk of death/illness from birth, ect.ect...).

Based on the Wiccan beliefs, I can also see where babs is getting the idea of a "woman" as god, despite her methods of conveying it.

Amazon women would protect their communtity of women and children by killing anyone that threatened it. They would use men to reproduce, then kill them.

Okay okay! I get it, you hate all men! Geez...rolleyes.giflaugh.gif

P.S. I didn't know Seraphina was nineteen! Damn....I would certainly like a smouldering and sexy glare from a diminutive scientist. blush.gif

Edited by Monkyburd

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Unorthodox Thesis

I believe people are equal. But women should be women,

and men should be men. Women should't be men, and men

should't be women. I hope that is understandable.

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SilverCougar

You have to remember, Wicca is relitivly new, and uses the ancient pagan gods and rituals (that survived the millenia) as guidelines.

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Wings of Selkhet

Hmm. So, basically, in early human society, the female was idolized, and for the past few millenia the male has been idolized. Currently, we're working at equality (at least as much can be brought about while we still recognize and respect the inherent differences in the sexes - they can never be 100% equal). Seems good to me. At least we're being progressive.

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Seraphina
P.S. I didn't know Seraphina was nineteen! Damn....I would certainly like a smouldering and sexy glare from a diminutive scientist.

The Sera One isn't really diminutive tongue.gif She's 5'10 tongue.gif The dimunitive one is Washu-sama *points to her avatar*

However.. it was not the Goddess being turned into God... but the Goddess being demoted to the Virgin Mary. Which explains why the Catholic branches of christianity are so devoted to her.

I'm well aware of that - Virgin goddesses were very much in fashion a few thousand years ago. It's another idea that Christianity stole from the pagans to make it easier to convert them tongue.gif Certainly, there were many cultures that worshipped a female god (or a god portrayed as a female in human form at least).

However, my objection is to the fact that, in Babs' world, that translates into society being matriachal....which it most certainly was not. She points to one nomadic tribe, which may or may not even have existed, as being the evidence for it....who, I might add, were excessivly violent, and only used their menfolk for breeding purposes, before slaughtering them, and liked to hack bits of their own body off in order to better accomidate their weapons dontgetit.gif

Probably not the best shining example of what a society of women should be like huh.gif

But anyway, the point of whether or not any gods were female is irrelevant...hell, we KNOW that many cultures throughout history have had female gods (although I'm not sure there's ever been one that had a single god, who wasn't male...would have to check up on that. Female gods tend to show up in religions that have multiple gods). I just don't think that means society was ruled or in any way orientated towards women - neither history, nor our social evolution, reflects that.

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SilverCougar

You may be well aware, but I didn't make that post just for you ;P

Thought I'd stick some food for thought for thoughs who were wondering...

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Seraphina

I know it wasn't just for me tongue.gif I just happened to be responding tongue.gif

I seriously don't understand this weird idea that a female goddess automatically means that society was ruled by women....the Greeks and the Egyptians had female goddesses, but you could hardly say women ruled their societies huh.gif

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SilverCougar

Uh.. yes and no. Women did have power. They were priestesses... and such.

It's kind of touchy because the of what some archeologist finds... how people traspose the long time idea that women are property and should be in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnent.

In very prehistoric before any major religion was even concieved (Inclueding judaism), there are signs showing that women were helf very highly. I mean.. they gave life, and feed the babe with her own body... She bled for days straight and lived... it was a mystery.

*shrugs* So it's easy to see. It was about the time, humans were settling down and claiming land did the violate war gods came into power and woman were seemingly made into property.

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Babs

Look at this pretty little girl. wub.gif You have to read the entire site to understand how these warrior women were found. The woman scientist didn't start out to study or research the amazon warrior women, she herself, too, thought that the women warriors were just a myth. As she came along the burials of these women (skeletons) she checked the DNA from their bones to the DNA of this pretty little girl. She got a match! IT IS FANTASTIC....what they can do today with DNA.

Sad part is that this scientist can't do any more research on the amazon ladies because the funding that was available to her is now going to the study of terrorism. disgust.gif That pees me off.

Look at this pretty little gal....blonde with freckles. 'Way back when' this gal would have been 'an amazon warrior'.

here

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Babs
They created language, writing, metallurgy, agriculture, and the arts. Their rituals and ceremonies, their spells and incantations, their prayers and sacrifices were expressions of their oneness with the source of all life, the Great Mother of all living things.

*starts crying*

what even saddens me more is that people take bible and other worship stuff as a fact.....

If you study Akkadian, Assyrian and Sumerian ancient history you will discover that most of the stories in the Bible come from far more ancient stories. Ancient cuniforms have been found to prove this. The Bible is a recounting of these stories. Wiccas have always been able to interpret omens. Long before written word the wise ones were master storytellers

what culture are their decedents from? what does that tell you? There are older cultures you know......

471968[/snapback]

I think the earth is millions of years old. Civilizations have come and gone... civilizations that we know nothing about and when our scientists find monuments and evidence of civilizations that don't fit their world-view (the proposed age of the earth) they ignore it , put the evidence in some museum or deny the whole thing. ........Or in the case of the amazon women ...say it is a myth.

Edited by Babs

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Babs
I believe people are equal. But women should be women,

and men should be men. Women should't be men, and men

should't be women. I hope that is understandable.

472788[/snapback]

I think that men and women are equal....but different. original.gif

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Babs
Here's a less fem militant explination.

However.. it was not the Goddess being turned into God... but the Goddess being demoted to the Virgin Mary.  Which explains why the Catholic branches of christianity are so devoted to her. 

The beginning of the Hebrew religion with its God Yahweh is said to have marked the end of the Goddess' Golden Age. Approximately this was between 1800 - 1500 BC when the prophet Abraham lived in Canaan.

The Christian Church, and especially the Roman Catholic Church, has fought hard to suppress or root out all Goddess worship. The Goddess along with all pagan deities were labeled as evil. But, little proof has been offered for this. One notable example is The Canon Episcopi.

Even though the Church attempted to completely abolish Goddess worship it never successfully did so. Remanents of it remained within the hearts of the people. An example of such devotion is seen within the actions of the people during the Church Council of Ephesus (432 AD). Until Christianized Ephesus had been a sacred city where the Divine Mother was worshiped by "all Asia and the world" (Acts 19:27). Also in this city of Ephesus, as elsewhere, she was called Mother of Animals. "Her most famous Ephesus image had a torso covered with breasts, showing her ability to nurture the whole world." During this council of bishops people rioted in the streets demanding the worshipping of the Goddess be restored. The prime candidate was Mary, the Virgin and Mother of Christ. The bishops conceded so far in allowing Mary to be called the Mother of God, but the forbade her to be called Mother Goddess or Goddess.

To the very present many, both Catholics and especially Protestants, wonder why Catholics have a great devotion toward the Virgin Mary. Few know the occurrences at Ephesus, and that this devotion is probably the long surviving remanent of their early ancestors' devotion to the Goddess. A.G.H.

and to understand why the Goddess was demoted... the Goddess is said to be creatress, virgin, mother, destroyer, warrior, huntress, homemaker, wife, artist, jurist, healer and sorcerer. Her roles or abilities increased with the advancement of the cultures which worshipped her.

She could represent a queen with a consort, or lover. She might bear a son who died young or was sacrificed only to rise again representing the annual birth-death-rebirth cycle of the seasons. (quoted)

Basicaly, Jesus is her son that rises again.. like always... however humanity turned it from the seasons... the Jewish folk took on hope for a messiah... and the christians took this old belief in a virgin birth and turned Jesus into that. But took him away from nature.. from the seasons. And he only rised once, but is celebrated every year.

There's a reason Jesus's birth is celebrated near Yule. Yule for the celtics and Norse was when the Goddess gave birth to her son (lover/consort as well). The dieing and raising coralates with Ostara. It is a time of rebirth.. of comming back to life.

472534[/snapback]

That is very interesting.. original.gif

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Doctor_Strangelove

Nice post, thumbsup.gif but I think God was and still is Male

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Babs
I remember that men saw the female as the most important gender because she gave birth. Men couldn't bring life into the world, so naturally the woman was dominate or most important to society. The woman had the children and she was the figure in charge or in authority...everything_ property and possessions were in her name. Even her children had her name. (it's sad today women can't have their child in their name and many women can't even name their child, the man does). Everything came down from the female line. When men down through the ages found out that they had a part in the birth process, namely fertilization (conception), things changed. This is when power changed hands. But that took many many eons to do....history was mostly feminine based.

Many men get upset by the fact that women give birth or bring life into the world because they feel it leaves them without purpose. Men have, as a gender, beat woman down because of this fact_ trying to elevate themselves.

no no no men beat women because of power. it is a psychological problem,

to men in the past women have always been the lower forms of lives. for example the middle ages, particularly the middle east. men can marry as much women as they want. this woulld not be the case if they worshipped women. Why do you think women had to fight for their rights?

history was mostly feminine based.

show some proof for this claim, what time period, what people, what culture?

472409[/snapback]

I'm not talking about modern day. Modern day women are beaten for power. Sad but true.

....a woman is beatened every 9 seconds.

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Babs

I am trying to get off the domestic violence, but I guess these subjects enter into the discussion.

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Loge

Nice post, thumbsup.gif  but I think God was and still is Male

473220[/snapback]

Ignorance about the Feminine Aspect of Divinity is the greatest ally that Macho Ignoramuses worshipers have in the world today.

And their biggest problem is that the infinite Male-Female Divinity does not fit within their finite animal minds!

If you take all the intellectual information from within their minds, then nothing remains!

So full of themselves they are that not a single empty space they leave for their Divine Mother Goddess!

Evidence shows us absolutely that the one who creates the human body is the Woman. Or, isn’t she the one who carries the baby for nine months within her womb, and the one who breastfeed the human creature after birth?

If there is a being made into the image of the Creator that being is the woman, or Not?

Facts are facts and before the facts we have to surrender!

PS: Why was my last post deleted?

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Fluffybunny

Your last post was deleted as it simply linked to a photo that did not relate to the topic at hand, and added nothing else; no comments, no information, nothing.

I have asked you in the past to curtail your direct linking of barely related images in posts as it makes threads difficult to read as the page jumps around while your images load. In the threads in which you choose to contribute multiple large photo links, the loading time for pages becomes unreasonable for anyone not on a high speed connection.

If you must include an image, please consider actually uploading the image and attaching it to your post so that a thumbnail appears; if a person is interested they can click on the thumbnail to get the full size image. Like this:

[attachmentid=11336]

The image is still there, but the thumbnail is very small and does not take a long time to download. Thank you.

post-2832-1107357465.jpg

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Hotoke
when our scientists find monuments and evidence of civilizations that don't fit their world-view (the proposed age of the earth) they ignore it , put the evidence in some museum or deny the whole thing. ........Or in the case of the amazon women ...say it is a myth.

that is not true. archeologists are looking for evidence of amazone warriors. some theories have support of proof. the amazones are no longer a myth but real becase evidence has been found of such women warriors especially in russia

http://www.net4you.co.at/users/poellauerg/Amazons/

the reason they dismissed it as a myth is because there has not been any evidence at all untill now.

In some cultures women and men were equal and some times even higher

There is a growing body of evidence that the Amazons were as real as the civilizations who wrote of them. They governed large areas of Europe, Asia Minor and Africa. Cities named Amazonium were established on Pontus and the Island of Patmos and numerous ancient cities in Europe, Asia Minor and the islands of the Aegean Sea, including Smyrma and Ephesus, claimed to have been founded by Amazons. A number of these cities stamped coins commemorating their Amazon founders and built statues and temples in their honor.

According to historian Jessica Salmonson the Amazons were actually two different matriarchal empires founded, governed and defended by women. The earlier empire, the Hesperian or Gorgon Amazons, were Libyan women warriors who originated on Tritonia, an island off the African coast which was largely destroyed by volcanic eruption with the surviving portion forming the present day Canary Islands. Herodotus wrote of the Libyan Amazons military power as late as the sixth century BC.

but what does this have to do with a female god?

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