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Babs

'god was female'

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Stellar
I'm not talking about modern day. Modern day women are beaten for power. Sad but true.

Not by modern civilized society!

I think the earth is millions of years old. Civilizations have come and gone... civilizations that we know nothing about and when our scientists find monuments and evidence of civilizations that don't fit their world-view (the proposed age of the earth) they ignore it , put the evidence in some museum or deny the whole thing.

Really? Like what, for example?

........Or in the case of the amazon women ...say it is a myth.

Umm... who says its a myth now...?

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SilverCougar

they accually found dna for these amazon ladies... and accually traced it all the way to mongolia. There has been cases where their genes manage to seep out in verious children among tribes. That is to say, fairer skin, lighter hair, blue eyes...

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moe eubleck

Moe knows that women are superior. This is why we love them all. wub.gif

But if you are accrediting a female power for creation than this seems bogus unless woman were plants. But they are not. They are mammals. So it takes two to tango. And this is good becuase Moe likes to tango.

Now let us tango .

*grooves*

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SilverCougar

MOE!

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Kismit
It's obvious that a few here commenting on domestic violence haven't studied domestic violence. Domestic violence is more widespread than you might think.  Much of the violence is kept underwraps

Babs if this is aimed in my direction feel free to p.m. so we can discuss just how little I know about Domestic violence .

Did you know it is entirely possible for a woman too have her nipples removed by a man wearing work boots while she is curled up on the floor of a small shower ?

Oh yes please feel free to discuss how little I know on the subject .

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SilverCougar

I don't even want to visualize that, Kismit...

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Kismit

I would like to have not have people I love suffer through it either Silver Cougar. It is not the most wonderfull memory.

Loge, if your post was deleted you should have been informed of the reason . I'll have a look around for you and see what I can do .

Sera original.gif as for the debate on wether or not human mating would have been predominantly by force I would really like to chat some more on the subject .

Allthough Men are stronger and larger, I still can't see a masculine role of agressor that would work anymore than a female role like the Amazonioan one Babs brought up earlier.

In even a neanderthal sense , where pack rule would have taken place . You are still talking about 24 hour days with out television, playstation games, or even books . People had to find things to entertain themselves . And sex is allways a great sport .

Once you have secured an area for survival, raiding parties are not constant attacks , and all members of a tribe or group would have been practised with simple survival tactics or they would die. That simple. Then the rest of the day was there's to entertain themselves .

Groups would have fallen into routines quickly or perished . which leaves a lot of time to work on other things .

Love or more importantly lust is not something we have control over , it is a physiological change that takes place in our bodies . A chemical reaction to a person whos immune system differs to ours . Love would have been necisary for packs to form and love would include that increase in estrogen I brought up earlier.

If neanderthals didn't bond with each other they would have ended up wondering around aimlessly looking for mates . Which would have been a far more dangerous situation to be in than a tribal one.

Of course this is all just opinion but if you have any ideas that may change the way I see it feel free to add them .

I will get back to respond as soon as I can original.gif

Edited by Kismit

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Seraphina
You are still talking about 24 hour days with out television, playstation games, or even books . People had to find things to entertain themselves . And sex is allways a great sport

Certainly, I'm sure leasure sex was a...um...popular pastime tongue.gif Unfortunately, I think (as it would be in many of the greater apes today) it would have been strictly monitored and controlled by the dominant male, and any male caught having a party before the dominant male had would be in for a beating.

In animals that live in social groups (in the wild), sex is not a matter of "who do you like?" It's a matter of "who's got the best genes?" The females would only want to mate with the male that will provide them with the strongest, healthiest offspring, who are the most likely to survive, and likewise, the dominant male would not want anyone else getting in there first, and ruining his chances of passing on his genes.

It's the same system that exists in other ape groups....heck, when a female chimp is receptive, the male chimps will form a line behind her, in order of dominance dontgetit.gif

This, obviously, puts the other males at a huge disadvantage...so I don't think it's a great stetch at all to imagine that many women back then were ambushed when the dominant male wasn't looking, the low ranking male doing his thing, and then running off innocently before the dominant male saw what was going on, and wiped the floor with his genetically inferior tooshie. I don't think it was motivated by malice in any way, simple the drive to pass on their genetic material...which is what every animal in the world exists to do.

You made an earlier point that women back then would probably not have hung around in such conditions....well, what choice do they have exactly? I imagine sex had far less to do with intimacy than it did reproduction back then, so I imagine rape would probably have far less of a psycological impact than it would today, given social attitudes towards sex...however, even if it did, where exactly are they going to go?

The very reason that humans lived in social groups is for protection...we're not very well evolved to survive in nature. Physically, we're very weak for our size, we have terrible night vision, we have a poor sense of smell, in fact, we're vastly inferior to the rest of the greater apes in most regards huh.gif What we, and they do have is safety in numbers.

Any female who left the group would die...and would be perfectly aware of this fact. And, if she managed by chance to stumble upon another group, who ended up accepting her instead of driving her off (if she was young enough to bear children, they'd probably keep her around) she probably wouldn't find her situation any different.

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Ashley-Star*Child
Ashley...

So you're for equality, just not in religion. ohmy.gif So, you are saying that you prefer to be second-class in religion and with your god.

471405[/snapback]

No, it's just that the fact is, women didn't exist until Lillith/Eve. That doesn't detract from equality, doesn't make a women any less. Jesus was said to say that men should respect women because every man comes from a woman. I don't see that detracting from equaility.

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matthewgoad

Well how does that work with God creating man in "His" image as it states in the bible? Just curious as to your thoughts on that one

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Ashley-Star*Child
Well how does that work with God creating man in "His" image as it states in the bible? Just curious as to your thoughts on that one

474311[/snapback]

Wgo are you referring to? I already said that Adam was created first earlier, in which I also said God was male, and also the angels, though generless in the sense that they can reproduce.

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Babs
Babs, you are the one that keeps bringing up the domestic violence and now you're asking us to get off it?

I was a victim, one time... and I will not let it dictate how I spend the rest of my life. I admire the fact that you work with battered women, but I am also afraid of the message that you're sending them.

I refuse to let "one person" cloud how I judge the rest of humanity...and I do not believe that men are the root af all evil.

blush.gif I had to get that off my chest.....

472609[/snapback]

You are right, of course, I was talking to Sera and we have been in this conversation before_ so I didn't make myself clear to everyone. As I have said in other threads_not all men are batterers! There are many good men out there. original.gif I hope you are one of the lucky ones that don't repeat the 'cycle of violence' with the next relationship. Many women get right back into another violent relationship sad.gif

Really the only way to break this vicious cycle of violence is to be educated in domestic violence. Go to a support group in your area or a shelter and get the necessary information and education to keep yourself free from violence. ph34r.gif

Unfortunately, many girls see their mothers being beaten by their fathers or their fathers or brothers beat them up. This fact, keeps that 'cycle of violence' going. The little girl grows up and gets into a violent relationship, because she doesn't know any better. She thinks this is how it is. sad.gif When she leaves the violent man she is still in danger of being attracted to (or attracting) a violent man. This is because she hasn't done the necessary work and counseling to bring herself to another 'level of being'... where she won't be attracted to (or attract) a violent man. This is hard work, I don't want to kid anyone, but obviously worth it. It may save your life someday.

As I said before you may be one of the lucky ones that didn't grow up in a violent home_ and just got 'involved' with a violent man. In that case, you may not have any more trouble or 'violent relationships'. I hope so.

I wish you luck. original.gif

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Babs

Kismit...

I am sorry to hear of your experience. I wasn't referring to personal experience, I was referring to domestic violence education.

When you have a violent relationship that doesn't make you an expert in domestic violence. Although, I can identify, I'm sure you feel that way. original.gifyes.gif

I have had several violent relationships and grew up in a violent home, but I didn't know what was going on until I was educated in domestic violence. Then I worked in that field and had studies in that field.

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LordBailey
We control the one thing guys these days want... (Most guys...)

Back in the days where social order was first established, I imagine most mating was done by force.

471952[/snapback]

RIGHT! I'm a guy first off....and I DO believe in equality for women and men WORLD WIDE! But, I'll just give you an example. If I were lying in a burning building with crippled legs and couldn't get out, personally, I would want a 220lbs. dude to throw me over his shoulder and run me out of there, rather than a 140lbs. woman try to do the same. Granted it is possible for a woman to attain similar physical charactaristics as men. And that's great! But as a whole, evolution has made man, in general, stronger, faster, and tougher than the woman. Granted a man would cry like a baby during child birth w00t.gif .

My point is, we NEED each other. There is no, "I'm better than you," argument. Men are built to be hunters, protectors (of women and their children).

But I still believe that women should be respected and reveared for their ability to make a man feel, well, safe wub.gif

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Babs
eih...militant femanists...the shame of our gender...

thumbsup.gif

471712[/snapback]

Easy for you to say...you're a guy. thumbsup.gif Think about what it would feel like and be like for you if the tables were turned?

I also wanted to add that I think you are 'a real religious guy' and that you sit at that Sunday pulpit swallowing that stuff, hook, line and sinker.'

I think that your religious views cloud your judgement, joc......of the real world for women, and the way it is.

Abortion is the law of the land. I am pro-choice and joc is pro-life. I think this is why he calls me 'a militant feminist'. Sorry, joc, but most women are pro-choice... or it wouldn't be the law of the land.

And that doesn't make all those women militant, does it? tongue.gif

What gets me is guys like you say abortion is murder...but then you go to war and kill live, walking, talking men, women and children. ohmy.gif I guess it's okay if men kill, but if a woman takes 'a piece of tissue' from her body, it's a big wrong! Smacks of control to me. Control of women. And is't there something in the christian religion (that you worship) about women being subservient or under the control of men?

See where I am coming from? wink2.gif

472027[/snapback]

I want to bring this up again...I have added to it above. I hit the wrong button so my addition is in the quote.

Edited by Babs

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zandore
Well how does that work with God creating man in "His" image as it states in the bible?

It is worded "Let us make man in our image" plural, Not in his image.

To all the females out there I am sorry to tell you that if there is a God, God can only be male. A female God I don't think would have committed all the mass murders that have been done by God. Please don't be upset with me I wish god was a female. This world might be a better place for it.

Edited by zandore

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matthewgoad

Yes I read that too my friend but the very next line says: I was just wondering the opinion of the group..

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

- show in context -

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LordBailey
Yes I read that too my friend but the very next line says: I was just wondering the opinion of the group..

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

- show in context -

474773[/snapback]

Remember, this book was written by a man...or men... Otherwise it would have said Mankind or the Human Race or something...Right? Just a thought grin2.gif

Cool discussion though

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zandore
Genesis 1:27

I stand corrected on that one But I still stand firm on the rest of my post.

Thank you

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SilverCougar

Yeah... I'm really starting to think I research for nothing lately.

No... God wasn't a Goddess first. God was Her consort. Then when man started to get more war like, and territorial.. and more or less civilization... one branch of people shuffled out the goddess and made the God the all power.. all knowing.. all this and that.

The Goddess, well with this group of people, became the Virgin Mary. She still had her meanings... right down to giving a virgin birth.

Other's kept her in a high esteem. Other's yet still kept her with her consort God... the Celts knew him as the Horned One.

Then ofcourse there are the Pantheons. Each topped with a head Goddess and God.

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Kismit
When you have a violent relationship that doesn't make you an expert in domestic violence. Although, I can identify, I'm sure you feel that way.

I have never had a violent relationship Babs , not one. Against all the odds of pattern behaivoiur, I have managed to remove the cycle from my branch of the family. Through counseling , education and learning the ' why's ' of how people behave.

I do know what I am talking about. The victims role in domestic violence situation follows a general rule of thumb that goes something like this .

Woman has previous history with violent people , the subconciuos mind is constantly reminding her people can be cruel and mean and violent . This goes on and on like an insecure tape recording she is consciously unaware of . She begins to feel uncomfortable nobody wants to wait for a beating when they Know one is coming . So they begin to push . The idea being that they want it out of the way , because they are already convinced they are going to get one any-way.

These woman do not do it on purpose. They have almost always been through hell in some way before they reach the stage of violent relationships. Violent relationships are never 1 sided .

This however does not take the responsibility off of violent abusers. Abuse is wrong and causes damage to all the people within hearing distance not just the one who is left bruised.

If you feel you have anger problems , get help . I did and my children are better for it , my Grandchildren will benefit from it and although my great grandchildren will be blissfully un-aware I will know I helped them.

Sera ,

Certainly, I'm sure leasure sex was a...um...popular pastime  Unfortunately, I think (as it would be in many of the greater apes today) it would have been strictly monitored and controlled by the dominant male, and any male caught having a party before the dominant male had would be in for a beating.

Lol sounds like nearly every man I know , you should she see the way my husband looks after the girls in what we call his 'harem', where he works. He took on the role of dominant male (except for the sex). And the women have let him. When they have a problem they cannot fix they always go to him . It's oddly how our society works . We can see from this that preaching radical feminism is like teaching a pig to sing.

In animals that live in social groups (in the wild), sex is not a matter of "who do you like?" It's a matter of "who's got the best genes?" The females would only want to mate with the male that will provide them with the strongest, healthiest offspring, who are the most likely to survive,

Yes, and wouldn't you agree that these are still the physical things which trigger emotional changes which release the hormones our bodies become addicted to which make us feel desire and "who we like" or are attracted to.

If you see a guy down the street who is tall, appears to be fit and healthy has all his teeth, looks clean, and de-loused and of course a broad set of shoulders that look handy for lifting heavy things. Admittedly these are desirable qualities , humans today are still pack animas with similar basic instincts.

Men have similar instincts , they want round hips for child bearing , fit and healthy for survival and of course clean and de-loused , with all our teeth. These are the things which trigger desire and "who they like" . The same catalyst for that boost of estrogen which makes them more gentle . the effects of which seem to wear off after a two year period. Just long enough to gestate a new being and get it up and running so it has a better chance of survival.( I'm trying to find the source for the information , it may even be in the front page news section on the site. will get back to you with that one .)

This estrogen release would of increased the chances of pleasure sex over violent rape.

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Babs

Kismit...

I see you are talking about a stage that the battered woman goes through, but I wasn't talking about that. And not all battered women go through this stage. blink.gif Not all battered women do this, Kismit. And the ones that do, have only the male batterer to blame for this (her) behavior. She is in no way responsible.

The very important point is: the male is the agressor, and the male does the worst physical damage. A woman can lose her life in a violent relationship...and many women do lose their lives. Every day.

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Kismit

Yes Babs, sadly they do . But we can't fix the problem by calling Men agressors. We can however make some head way by calling Abusers , "Abusers" .

We don't want to end up convincing our male counterparts they all have issues to deal with , and we don't want to teach the next generation of woman that men are agressors either . Most men and I mean the majority of the male population all over the world would view there role in the familly as protector and provider . This is what we want to promote to make the world a more pleasant place to live in .

Edited by Kismit

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Babs

Hotoke...thanks for the link on the amazon warriors. Still going over it.

You asked what this subject has to do with a female god? I brought the warrior women into it in response to Sera's post on how how she thought, or how her studies have led her to think, that the male gender is the better suited or the only gender that can hunt and kill.

I also think that the earth is millions, even billions years old and civilizations have come and gone. We know that many civilizations revered the female and I wonder how much science has swept under the rug.... or not pursued because of their world-views. Science is not prejudice-free, you know. If it doesn't fit their program, they ignore it! Which comes to my point..."god could very well have been a female".

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joc

This thread is just too sensitive for me. blush.gif

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the 'Women Only Chat' forum? tongue.gif

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