Slavery Reparations ?

[skliss]

11 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

It should be a dead issue, since all the people directly involved are dead.  I don't understand how having people who never owned slaves pay people who never were slaves accomplishes anything.  It will only prolong and exacerbate whatever racial divisions still exist.  We hear a lot about racial issues in the media but I seldom if ever see it at street level. Everywhere across America blacks, whites, Hispanics and others work and live together and mostly get along.  Even when the latest headlines try to whip us into a frenzy over the current racial hotspot, most folks just don't buy into it.  We still keep the relationships we have, say hi to our neighbors, etc.  

Technically, fair reparations would be impossible.  It goes beyond mere black and white.  I, like many whites, am a descendent of immigrants who came over after the Civil War had ended.  Many blacks are no doubt the same.  How would they exempt us from something neither of our ancestors were involved in?  Even in the time of slavery it only existed in the south.  There were free blacks in the north who should be undeserving of payments, assuming that the concept makes any sense at all in the first place.  Without answers, or even questions, about the technical aspects, it is clearly another attempt by our handlers to keep us divided for their own purposes.

What about indentured servants who were treated like slaves? Should the Irish get reparations from England for their treatment during the potatoes famine? I have ancestors who immigrated for that reason. Where does it end? Everyone was treated badly at one time or another. How do you prove who gets paid and who doesn't? And how do you contain the resentment when one neighbor qualifies and another doesn't? What about those of mixed heritage? Do they only get a portion of a payment? Maybe if they all got the value of 40 acres and a mule from the time of the offer they wouldn't be fighting so hard to get it. 1 acre, depending on where you were living went anywhere from 12.5 cents to $2.30. Can't find any data for a mule but let's got high for the time period and say $5. And today, in some places 40 acres could be worth millions, while an acre in others, like Alaskan wilderness, could be worth a few dollars.

[Big Jim]

2 hours ago, skliss said:

What about indentured servants who were treated like slaves? Should the Irish get reparations from England for their treatment during the potatoes famine? I have ancestors who immigrated for that reason. Where does it end? Everyone was treated badly at one time or another. How do you prove who gets paid and who doesn't? And how do you contain the resentment when one neighbor qualifies and another doesn't? What about those of mixed heritage? Do they only get a portion of a payment? Maybe if they all got the value of 40 acres and a mule from the time of the offer they wouldn't be fighting so hard to get it. 1 acre, depending on where you were living went anywhere from 12.5 cents to $2.30. Can't find any data for a mule but let's got high for the time period and say $5. And today, in some places 40 acres could be worth millions, while an acre in others, like Alaskan wilderness, could be worth a few dollars.

I had all those questions and more.  The entire proposal is ridiculous and I believe is being presented as a way to pander to black voters on an emotional, rather than logical, level.  Surely the people behind this must realize the same complications as you and I so I don't think they ever intend it to come to fruition, but float the idea to provoke a knee jerk reaction among certain voters.  It's like so many Democratic ploys where they want to appear like they are doing something but are really offering only pipe dreams.

[Duke Wellington]

10 hours ago, the13bats said:

so i happened to glance at the news and saw danny glover involved in something, i clicked it, i like his movies.

Slavery Reparations, i recall this coming up years back and fading away,

the article said something to the effect Lincoln was going to give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule, but he was sadly assassinated and that plan died with him and i guess got more less swep under the rug.

im curious how will this work in todays world, how whould it be determined who gets what and how much?

Hate on the US and UK for slavery.

While ignoring that most nations have practised slavery in their past and worse, the ones creating the most fuss about it (African nations) still practice it. Tell them where to go the patronising gits.

Edited June 20, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[aztek]

10 hours ago, the13bats said:

so i happened to glance at the news and saw danny glover involved in something, i clicked it, i like his movies.

Slavery Reparations, i recall this coming up years back and fading away,

the article said something to the effect Lincoln was going to give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule, but he was sadly assassinated and that plan died with him and i guess got more less swep under the rug.

im curious how will this work in todays world, how whould it be determined who gets what and how much?

and what do you think would have  happen if he was not killed and gave land to freed slaves.  i can tell you exactly what would happen, exactly the same thing that happened in Jamaica after independence.

[freetoroam]

10 hours ago, the13bats said:

so i happened to glance at the news and saw danny glover involved in something, i clicked it, i like his movies.

Slavery Reparations, i recall this coming up years back and fading away,

the article said something to the effect Lincoln was going to give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule, but he was sadly assassinated and that plan died with him and i guess got more less swep under the rug.

im curious how will this work in todays world, how whould it be determined who gets what and how much?

So hope they do not follow up on this, the poor mules!!!

Quite frankly sick and tired of hearing the woe onto me's as if their forefathers were the only slaves in history. 

If there is any slave alive today which did not get his 40 acres and mule, then yes, give it to them. As for the generations after that, they should do what every other race in this world has had to do - get on with your lives.

If african americans want to make a difference,  go to africa and help.all those poor african people who have no food. Some may even be related to them. 

[freetoroam]

22 minutes ago, aztek said:

and what do you think would have  happen if he was not killed and gave land to freed slaves.  i can tell you exactly what would happen, exactly the same thing that happened in Jamaica after independence.

Yep i get you

Quote

In 2011, a survey showed that approximately 60% of Jamaicans "think the country would be better off today if it was still under British rule", citing years of social and fiscal mismanagement in the country

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_Jamaica

Before we get the woe onto me jumping in, Africans were NOT the first slaves in america or Jamaica

Quote

Once Jamaica was “discovered” by Spain in 1494, the Arawaks, who had inhabited the island for centuries, were quickly subjected to brutality and slavery, becoming the first enslaved people on the island.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10/17/12-facts-about-slavery-in-jamaica-the-educational-system-refuses-to-teach-in-schools/

 

[XenoFish]

We have screwed each other over since we've existed as a species. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

We have screwed each other over since we've existed as a species. 

That is true.

And it is the self-depreciators who only focus on beating down their own countries for it to the point they think they should be paying reparations.

[freetoroam]

4 hours ago, skliss said:

Can't find any data for a mule but let's got high for the time period and say $5

Now you know they will not want a mule in this modern day. They will insist on brand new Toyota.

[Hawken]

Reparations is just a tactic by the Dems to cater to black americans to get their vote. Just like when the Dems used to support border security

until they figured out by allowing illegal immigrants in freely they will get potential voters. It's all a political game.

[F3SS]

If the democrat party wants to give reparations then the democrat party should pay for them. Take the high road and show everybody how caring and not racist they are and gleefully point the finger at us ignorant jerks who won't pitch in. Put their money where their mouth is. After all, they're the ones who fought to keep slavery, form the KKK and stand against civil rights. 

[Michelle]

9 minutes ago, F3SS said:

If the democrat party wants to give reparations then the democrat party should pay for them. Take the high road and show everybody how caring and not racist they are and gleefully point the finger at us ignorant jerks who won't pitch in. Put their money where their mouth is. After all, they're the ones who fought to keep slavery, form the KKK and stand against civil rights. 

NFL's Burgess Owens said the same thing. Of course, now they are calling him an Uncle Tom. Group think is all they will accept. The lockstep these people expect is pushing people away from the Democratic party.

[F3SS]

4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

NFL's Burgess Owens said the same thing. Of course, now they are calling him an Uncle Tom. Group think is all they will accept. The lockstep these people expect is pushing people away from the Democratic party.

I dis hear Burgess speak but you know his opinion don't count. I heard some other black guy say something similar too and they actually booed him. They're all crazy Michelle.

[aztek]

do blacks think they were the only slaves?? how about Irish, Chinese?

[Big Jim]

23 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Of course, now they are calling him an Uncle Tom.

I would expect no less from the Hypocratic party than to use a racial slur against someone who doesn't agree that there should be payoffs based on race.  

[+OverSword]

If we give reparations to people that don't know how to manage money they will for the most part manage it unwisely regardless of race (look at all the broke million dollar lottery winners) 

So let's say that descendants of slaves are given reparations and three years later the result is that 75% of them are now in more debt than they were in before money was handed to them.  Will we decide at that point that this is our fault because we should have educated them about money management better and try again?  How about people that have other not enslaved races in their blood?  Do they still qualify?  What about Chinese Americans?  Howz about Irish Americans who were brought here  as indentured servants? 

How wise is it for a nation currently $22 trillion in debt to be speaking about handing money out to a large percentage of the population? 

I'm against at this time I think.

[Michelle]

Not to mention not all blacks are descendants of slaves and not all whites are descendants of slave owners. This makes no sense at all.

[Big Jim]

4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

How wise is it for a nation currently $22 trillion in debt to be speaking about handing money out to a large percentage of the population? 

It's a bad idea all around.  All the problems and exceptions that have been put forth by this group in the space of a couple days shows that the proponents of this fiasco haven't put much thought into it.  If it was ever implemented in any way it can only lead to trouble.  It will stir up animosity in minority groups that are excluded, such as the Somalians.  They're black and from Africa but their ancestors were never slaves.  Besides ending up in debt, a lot of the recipients may well end up dead, with the money going to drugs and alcohol.  It certainly would not help black-white relations nor would it help the black community as a whole.  A lot of the problems in the black community are cultural and not due to slavery or poverty at all.  More money in the hands of thugs and gangs would not be a good thing.

[Dark_Grey]

16 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Will Africans be paying the reparations for selling their prisoners in the first place?  

14 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

I don't really see the point.  You have ex-slaves who went on to be slave owners themselves, who pays who?

These are legit questions that deserve more attention. They will never be asked in front of Congress because it completely breaks the narrative that white people are solely responsible for all slavery throughout history. Another great question to ask is "how many white people owned slaves at it's peak, considering the high cost of slave ownership?" and "how much do we give the ancestors of the white slaves who worked alongside the black slaves?"

 

[Wickian]

19 hours ago, Piney said:

There were whole Indian tribes who were raided for slaves and mixed with Africans such as my tribe, the Nanticoke but many of us think it's idiotic.

There were whole communities of Free Colored so how will they determine the slaves? 

Not to mention no single person from that era even being alive today.  Or having a method of only taxing the descendants of slave owners.  Reparations is just another policy statement that they know will never happen but will use anyway to try and buy votes.

[F3SS]

Plus like oversword said I too think that the majority of people (of any race, myself included) won't always do the smartest things with their money. Most of it will be gone before they know it and few will invest or buy anything that appreciates in value. And how many generations will it take before the animosity revives (not that I think it'll actually go away) and a new generation wants an apology or reparation. Really, if in 1900 or even 1960 every black person was given 10 or 20k or more for example do you really believe these issues wouldn't exist today or that anyone would care that the debt was settled when they're just as broke today as they are right now? It's a pandering mess. Sadly, the Democratic field has no spine and is all about it. I think the real angle is that they know it's a dud but anyone who opposed it is automatically a racist. That's just like them to have nothing but racism to fall back on and since they can't find enough of it actually existing they'll find a way to make it up.

[skliss]

4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Howz about Irish Americans who were brought here  as indentured servants? 

I said that earlier.

4 hours ago, OverSword said:

How wise is it for a nation currently $22 trillion in debt to be speaking about handing money out to a large percentage of the population? 

I read somewhere that after all the adjusting, etc, it would cost 6.4 trillion dollars.

[Piney]

5 hours ago, aztek said:

do blacks think they were the only slaves?? how about Irish, Chinese?

We were the slaves in America first but we were dying too fast from diseases.  The Spanish and Puritans sold many of us en-mass. Slavers raided all up and down the Eastern seaboard prior to English settlement and my grandmother's tribe was raided on a small scale up until before the Civil War.

Paddy Cannon was her "Bogeyman".  Sussex County was where the Indian River Hundred was located

Quote

   Slaves seeking freedom and free blacks both feared the paddy rollers, Small said, slave catchers who went looking for vulnerable people to kidnap and sell to slave traders. One of the most infamous slave catchers, Patty Cannon, based her operation at the state line in Dorchester County with Sussex County, Del.

https://www.stardem.com/news/slavery-on-eastern-shore-an-incomplete-topic/article_800e17c4-14d0-5101-be6b-2f1aa3325214.html

http://nativeamericansofdelawarestate.com/Delmarva_Indians_&_Underground_Railroad.htm

[Hawken]

5 hours ago, Michelle said:

Not to mention not all blacks are descendants of slaves and not all whites are descendants of slave owners. This makes no sense at all.

Exactly, Most people in the US before 1865 were farmers, small business owners, blacksmiths (etc)

After 1865 a lot of immigrants came to the US and had nothing to do with slavery.

[the13bats]

thanks all, i felt like my thoughts on this would make we appear certain ways to some but seems many of my thoughts on it are shared and common.

as i read the replies i saw this

Quote

, if in 1900 or even 1960 every black person was given 10 or 20k or more for example do you really believe these issues wouldn't exist today or that anyone would care that the debt was settled when they're just as broke today as they are right now? It's a pandering mess

i would love to say you are dead wrong that it would have made all the difference and everything would passed and everyone would be hunky dory,

if it passed today and they figured out who got what from where without those hurdles causing a major furor in the country at best a Reparation recipient would more or less be right where they were the day before payment, sure they might feel good about it they might go buy something like any lotto winner does but not only would the previous climate remain none of the issues would evaporate a new discord would be in the air, angry jealous people who in one way or another felt reparation payouts wronged them.

so you guys have me thinking this is all about politics.