Ancient and Medieval UFO

[Unusual Tournament]

Ancient and Medieval UFOs

 

n A.D. 1211 Gervase of Tilbury, an English chronicler of historical events and curiosities, recorded this bizarre story:

There happened in the borough of Cloera, one Sunday, while the people were at Mass, a marvel. In this town is a church dedicated to St. Kinarus. It befell that an anchor was dropped from the sky, with a rope attached to it, and one of the flukes caught in the arch above the church door. The people rushed out of the church and saw in the sky a ship with men on board, floating before the anchor cable, and they saw a man leap overboard and jump down to the anchor, as if to release it. He looked as if he were swimming in water. The folk rushed up and tried to seize him; but the Bishop forbade the people to hold the man, for it might kill him, he said. The man was freed, and hurried up to the ship, where the crew cut the rope and the ship sailed out of sight. But the anchor is in the church, and has been there ever since, as a testimony.

 

 

In a 9th-century Latin manuscript, Liber contra insulam vulgi opinionem, the Archbishop of Lyons complained about the French peasantry's insistent belief in a "certain region called Magonia from whence come ships in the clouds." The occupants of these vessels "carry back to that region those fruits of the earth which are destroyed by hail and tempests; the sailors paying rewards to the storm wizards and themselves receiving corn and other produce." The archbishop said he had even witnessed the stoning to death of "three men and a woman who said they had fallen from these same ships." Jakob Grimm, a 19th-century folklorist, speculated, "'Magonia' takes us to some region where Latin was spoken, if we may rely on it referring to Magus, i.e., a magic land."

Are these early references to UFOs and aliens? Possibly. But references of this sort are few and far between. Although ancient and medieval records are filled with stories of strange shapes and figures in the sky, little in these accounts elicits visions of UFOs as we understand them today. Many eerie aerial phenomena of an earlier time can now be identified as meteors, comets, and auroral displays.

 

https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ufo-history2.htm

[Unusual Tournament]

 

Date	Name	City, State	Country	Description	Sources	Hynek Scale
ca. 1440 BC	Fiery disks	Lower Egypt	Ancient Egypt	According to the disputed Tulli Papyrus, the scribes of the pharaoh Thutmose IIIreported that "fiery disks" were encountered floating over the skies.	[1][2]	1

 

Date	Name	City, State	Country	Description	Sources	Hynek Scale
218 BC	ships in the sky	Rome, Italia	Roman Republic	Livy records a number of portents in the winter of this year, including navium speciem de caelo adfulsisse ("phantom ships had been seen gleaming in the sky").	Livy's Ab Urbe Condita Libri[3][4]	1
76 BC	spark from a falling star	unknown	Roman Republic	According to Pliny the Elder, a spark fell from a star and grew as it descended until it appeared to be the size of the Moon. It then ascended back up to the heavens and was transformed into a light.	[5][6][4]
74 BC	flame-like pithoifrom the sky	Phrygia, Asia	Roman Republic	According to Plutarch, a Roman army commanded by Luculluswas about to begin a battle with Mithridates VI of Pontus when "all on a sudden, the sky burst asunder, and a huge, flame-like body was seen to fall between the two armies. In shape, it was most like a wine-jar, and in colour, like molten silver." Plutarch reports the shape of the object as like a wine-jar (pithos). The apparently silvery object was reported by both armies.	[7][4]	1
66 AD	chariots fill the sky	Jerusulem	Roman Empire	According to Josephus, Tacitus, and Eusebius of Caesarea, the Roman army marched on Jerusalem there were chariots and armed angels seen to fill the sky.	[8][6]
196	angel hair	Rome	Roman Empire	Historian Cassius Dio described "A fine rain resembling silver descended from a clear sky upon the Forum of Augustus." He used some of the material to plate some of his bronze coins, but by the fourth day afterwards the silvery coating was gone.	[4]	2

 

Date	Name	City, State	Country	Description	Sources	Hynek Scale
1561-04-14	1561 celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg	Nuremberg	Holy Roman Empire	Residents of Nuremberg saw what they described as an aerial battle, followed by the appearance of a large black triangular object and then a large crash outside of the city. The broadsheet claims that witnesses observed hundreds of spheres, cylinders and other odd-shaped objects that moved erratically overhead.	[9]
1566-08-07	1566 celestial phenomenon over Basel	Basel	Switzerland	A broadsheet published in 1566 depicted numerous spherical objects appearing out of the sun. This event is depicted in a 16th-century woodcut by Samuel Coccius (Samuel Koch) and Samuel Apiarius.	[9]	1
1595-10-15	Strange comet-like object that stayed fixed on the sky and which wasn't found in any catalog of known comets	Târgoviște	Wallachia	About the time of Michael the Brave's attack on Târgoviște which was occupied by the Ottoman Army there were reports of a bizarre "comet" that appeared in the city, staying pinned on the sky and shining over the Wallachian camp. Reportedly, it stayed there for about two hours before vanishing.

[jaylemurph]

Can’t help but notice your lack of citation on the first stories. Any proof any of them are /real/?

—Jaylemurph 

[Timothy]

@Captain Risky, this page is worth a read: ‘Sky Anchors Away: The Legend(s) of Sky Sailors and Anchors Stuck in Churches’ http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2012/05/sky-anchors-away-legends-of-sky-sailors.html?m=1

Speaking of Gervase: ‘Basically, he compiled a lot of dispersed information into one place. Most of it was your average demographic information with a final section devoted to (then) unexplainable events and/or folk tales. The alleged anchor incident was contained not within the “normal parts,” but rather in the folk tale section.’

So, what do you want to discuss here? Or are you just posting folk tales for entertainment?

[Unusual Tournament]

look guys this is a real interesting topic and relevant more so since the U.S. navy has acknowledged openly that this phenomena is regularly witnessed by pilots and recorded by ground based and airborne instrumentation. The POTUS and Congress have all been getting briefings and the general view is that there is a lot more to this.

Stands to reason that if they're real (UFO's) then they might have been around far longer than since WW1 and WW2. 

No flaming please!   

[Unusual Tournament]

4 minutes ago, Timothy said:

@Captain Risky, this page is worth a read: ‘Sky Anchors Away: The Legend(s) of Sky Sailors and Anchors Stuck in Churches’ http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2012/05/sky-anchors-away-legends-of-sky-sailors.html?m=1

Speaking of Gervase: ‘Basically, he compiled a lot of dispersed information into one place. Most of it was your average demographic information with a final section devoted to (then) unexplainable events and/or folk tales. The alleged anchor incident was contained not within the “normal parts,” but rather in the folk tale section.’

So, what do you want to discuss here? Or are you just posting folk tales for entertainment?

With all due respect thats a blog and not worth a pinch of salt. 

[Unusual Tournament]

he Tulli Papyrus is claimed to be a transcription of an Egyptian papyrus dating from the reign of Thutmose III. The claim originated in a 1953 article published in Doubt, the Fortean Society magazine, by Tiffany Thayer. According to Thayer, the transcription was sent to him by Boris de Rachewiltz who supposedly found the original transcription of the papyrus among papers left by Alberto Tulli, a deceased Vatican museum director. References to "circles of fire" or "fiery discs" allegedly contained in the translation have been interpreted in UFO and Fortean literature as evidence of ancient flying saucers, although ufologists Jacques Vallee & Chris Aubeck have described it as a "hoax". According to Vallee and Aubeck, since Tulli had supposedly copied it during a single viewing of the original papyrus using an "Ancient Egyptian shorthand", and de Rachewiltz had never seen the original, the alleged text likely contained transcription errors, making it impossible to verify.^[1][2]

[Timothy]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

*snip*

No flaming please! 

Oh come off it. Lol, you child! You quoted three of our names in that last topic just to bait us to the thread and elicit a response. 

So, don’t cry flaming here. It’s not what I’m doing anyway. So let’s leave it at that! 

What you’ve posted is just a story, nothing more. And the fact that you’re trying to relate it to what is basically a normal operational military thing, something you and others are trying to claim is more than what it actually is, is a bit of a stretch by any measure. 

From that link also, this bit is important in relation to the connection you’re claiming exists: ‘The main point to take away from this is that some people, and Gervase of Tilbury, believed there was an additional ocean in the sky and that there were some sort of people that lived up there. They didn’t believe that these people were from space and in at least one case an ordinary sailor was involved “proving” the sky sea theory.’

http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2012/05/sky-anchors-away-legends-of-sky-sailors.html?m=1

You really should read that article. It addresses a lot of your speculation.

[Timothy]

6 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

With all due respect thats a blog and not worth a pinch of salt. 

Again, it addresses a lot of your speculations and what you have posted already here.

Do yourself a favour and read it...

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

Oh come off it. Lol, you child! You quoted three of our names in that last topic just to bait us to the thread and elicit a response. 

So, don’t cry flaming here. It’s not what I’m doing anyway. So let’s leave it at that! 

What you’ve posted is just a story, nothing more. And the fact that you’re trying to relate it to what is basically a normal operational military thing, something you and others are trying to claim is more than what it actually is, is a bit of a stretch by any measure. 

From that link also, this bit is important in relation to the connection you’re claiming exists: ‘The main point to take away from this is that some people, and Gervase of Tilbury, believed there was an additional ocean in the sky and that there were some sort of people that lived up there. They didn’t believe that these people were from space and in at least one case an ordinary sailor was involved “proving” the sky sea theory.’

http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2012/05/sky-anchors-away-legends-of-sky-sailors.html?m=1

You really should read that article. It addresses a lot of your speculation.

No quoted the three of you to acknowledge that congress had also been briefed and i wanted to see your arguments. I guess its obvious that the 3 of you disappeared instead on answering for your opinions. This is a seperate thread. No one has a gun to your head. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

Again, it addresses a lot of your speculations and what you have posted already here.

Do yourself a favour and read it...

...yes it does BUT it doesn't change the fact that flying craft is just as much part of the human condition back then as it is now. 

[Timothy]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

No quoted the three of you to acknowledge that congress had also been briefed and i wanted to see your arguments. I guess its obvious that the 3 of you disappeared instead on answering for your opinions. This is a seperate thread. No one has a gun to your head. 

Of course they were briefed. There’s nothing abnormal about it. 

Did you read that link yet? Interested to know your opinion on that?

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

Of course they were briefed. There’s nothing abnormal about it. 

Did you read that link yet? Interested to know your opinion on that?

Tim! there will be plenty of time to voice your concerns. Lets give others a go, eh. 

[Timothy]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

...yes it does BUT it doesn't change the fact that flying craft is just as much part of the human condition back then as it is now. 

Using historical church folk tales to link to basically a current non-event which you and others are trying to make more than what it is in an attempt to support pure speculation isn’t a good approach. 

Whats more likely? ET? Actual flying ships which get their anchors stuck on churches? Or folk tales?

[Unusual Tournament]

However, we cannot just assume that what our ancient ancestors saw and recorded on cave walls or in ancient texts were astronomical or environmental phenomena. Like today’s sightings, there appears to be a small percentage of sightings that are simply ‘unexplained’, and many of the records existing from our ancient past certainly raise intrigue, like the prehistoric cave painting to the left, which bears a similarity to images painted centuries later in the 16 ^th century Summer’s Triumph Tapestry , and which also ties in closely with modern day UFO accounts. There are also the Aboriginal cave paintings of the ‘Wandjina’ spirits, which appear to represent alien visitors. 

Proponents of the ‘ancient astronaut’ perspective point to numerous myths and legends telling of ‘sky gods’ descending from the sky, and historical texts dating back 4,000 years that appear to describe flying crafts.  In the Vedic literature of India, such as the Rg Veda, the Mahabharata, and the Ramayana, there are many descriptions of flying machines called Vimanas which were used in warfare in ancient times.  The Vimanas were said to be able to fly in the earth's atmosphere as well as into outer space, distant planets and be submerged underwater. 

https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/ancient-history-ufos-and-unclassified-document-oppenheim-and-einstein-001384

[Timothy]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

Tim! there will be plenty of time to voice your concerns. Lets give others a go, eh. 

Just getting a bit of the ground work done. 

Okay, let’s both give others a go.

I’ll acquiesce your request if you will do the same.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

Using historical church folk tales to link to basically a current non-event which you and others are trying to make more than what it is in an attempt to support pure speculation isn’t a good approach. 

Whats more likely? ET? Actual flying ships which get their anchors stuck on churches? Or folk tales?

well we have highly educated navy pilots and ground staff manning powerful camera's and sensors that record these UFO's and they're subjected to scrutiny so its nothing new that you should raise the same questions. Still, like i said before... the possibility that this could be linked to the navy pilot sightings that have briefed the U.S. president and congress could be connected. 

[Timothy]

3 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

well we have highly educated navy pilots and ground staff manning powerful camera's and sensors that record these UFO's and they're subjected to scrutiny so its nothing new that you should raise the same questions. Still, like i said before... the possibility that this could be linked to the navy pilot sightings that have briefed the U.S. president and congress could be connected. 

Okay, I guess I can post again. Cheers.

Again: You are trying to link historical speculation to current speculation. Two things extremely different and most definitely completely unrelated. 

It’s such a stretch that it is laughable really. 

The phrase ‘anything is possible’ shouldn’t be taken literally. 

You think there’s a link, I don’t.

So are we waiting for other members to post now? 

[Unusual Tournament]

5 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Okay, I guess I can post again. Cheers.

Again: You are trying to link historical speculation to current speculation. Two things extremely different and most definitely completely unrelated. 

It’s such a stretch that it is laughable really. 

The phrase ‘anything is possible’ shouldn’t be taken literally. 

You think there’s a link, I don’t.

So are we waiting for other members to post now? 

look, laughable? thats not a nice term thats gonna make this thread work. the current UFO spectuations in the White House and Congress is that enough isn't known yet to yea or nay but plently to raise eyebrows. BUT saying that this UFO phenomena only just popped up this last 100 years is not logical. Especially since others over a period of thousands of years have made the same claims. 

[Harte]

No one has ever seen the "Tulli Papyrus."

That's convenient.

Harte

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Harte said:

No one has ever seen the "Tulli Papyrus."

That's convenient.

Harte

Yes you are right. Still it makes a claim that is outta character with theme of their religion and civilisation. You see why didn't these ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Jews etc just say that they saw the Gods in the sky that night? why describe circles and spheres independently powered?

[Timothy]

8 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Yes you are right. Still it makes a claim that is outta character with theme of their religion and civilisation. You see why didn't these ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Jews etc just say that they saw the Gods in the sky that night? why describe circles and spheres independently powered?

The problem is the story in your OP does not fit with any of what you’re saying here.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

The problem is the story in your OP does not fit with any of what you’re saying here.

..in what way, example?

[Timothy]

4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

..in what way, example?

Some at the time believed that there was an ocean in the sky. 

So a folk tale about a ship with men on it, sailing in the sky, getting their anchor stuck on a church, one ‘swimming’ down to unhook the anchor, then sailing away, is not out of character for the beliefs of the time.

Nothing to do with independently powered circles and spheres either. 

That’s why I’m saying it’s such a stretch for you to try to relate it to this other current stuff.

Edit: Don’t get me wrong, it is a weird story. But it’s just that, a story.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Timothy
Edit.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Timothy said:

Some at the time believed that there was an ocean in the sky. 

So a folk tale about a ship with men on it, sailing in the sky, getting their anchor stuck on a church, one ‘swimming’ down to unhook the anchor, then sailing away, is not out of character for the beliefs of the time.

Nothing to do with independently powered circles and spheres either. 

That’s why I’m saying it’s such a stretch for you to try to relate it to this other current stuff.

I was replying to Harte and the Tulli papyrus. 

Still the concept that manned flight and an anchor getting stuck and someone swimming down to free it sounds a bit like abseiling is a concept beyond the time. an anomaly. why not say the devil or the angles to make it more believable if it was made up? Thats my point.