Ancient and Medieval UFO

[Timothy]

6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

He not interested in the subject only in refusing to accept your evidence. He starts these threads so he can start confrontations.

I ignorantly assumed that he was blissfully ignorant, rather than deliberately ignorant. 

Noted for future reference. 

[Kenemet]

8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

That would be 1964 if memory served. Are you also suggesting that the cave paintings and other written accounts are also fake?

I am suggesting that based on cultural material that they are misinterpreted.  And many other accounts are "Sam told me that Bobby saw..."

[Kenemet]

8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

 

Tried the link again and it works just fine.

4. ‘Angel Hair’ Glassy FiberIn modern UFO reports, it is common to hear about either glassy fibers or a chalky substance left behind by the UFO, known as angel hair. Ancient reports also include angel hair.

In 196 A.D., the historian Cassius Dio wrote: “A fine rain resembling silver descended froma clear sky upon the Forum of Augustus. I did not, it is true, see it as it was falling, but noticed it after it had fallen, and by means of it I plated some bronze coins with silver; they retained the same appearance for three days, but by the fourth day all the substance rubbed on them had disappeared.”

Two other “rains of chalk” were reported in Cales 214 B.C. and in Rome 98 B.C.

Yes.  Some of the incidents were first hand reports or aftermath reports.  But mostly it's "Cassius told me that the army saw...."" which is a second or third-hand account.

[Hanslune]

Some more modern  - stuff rained down.

https://www.liveabout.com/true-stories-of-weird-rain-2593891

 

Quote

Raining Cows

Perhaps the most bizarre report is one that, unfortunately, cannot be confirmed. It may be just the stuff of urban legend, but it's so weird and so amusing that it had to be included. You can decide whether or not it's true.

Sometime around 1990, a Japanese fishing boat was sunk in the Sea of Okhotsk off the eastern coast of Siberia by a falling cow. When the crew members of the wrecked ship were fished from the water, they told authorities that they had seen several cows falling from the sky and that one of them crashed straight through the deck and hull.

At first, the story goes, the fishermen were arrested for trying to perpetrate an insurance fraud but were released when their story was verified. It seems that a Russian transport plane carrying stolen cattle was flying overhead. When the movement of the herd within the plane threw it off balance, the plane's crew, to avoid crashing, opened the loading bay at the tail of the aircraft and drove them out to fall into the water below. True story or hoax? One investigation traced the story back to a Russian television comedy series.

 

[jaylemurph]

12 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

According to the testimony, Lucullus and his Roman army were set on the battlefield to fight against Mithidratis the king of Pontus and his ally Marios who was dispatched by Sertorius. Minutes before the battle would start, an unidentified flying object appeared above the two armies.

The original extract describes the incident in the following words:

” when he faced (Lucullus) the enemies, he was amazed by the number of people and wanted to avoid and delay the battle. As Marios who was dispatched from Iberia  by Sertorius to help Mithridatis as a sergeant together with a military army challenged him (Lucullus), he got set for battle. While marching towards the conflict, without any observable change happening, the air opened and appeared a rapidly descending object resembling a flame, which appeared like a vase in shape and like a glowing annealed metal in colour. Both armies, frightened by the sighting withdrew. They said that this happened in Phrygia, near to what is known as Otries.”

https://www.historydisclosure.com/plutarch-wrote-about-ancient-ufo-sighting/

...the original words would have been in Latin or Greek. There was no English in Lucullus’ time. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Windowpane]

AFAIK, Plutarch wrote in Greek.

From Lucullus, 8.5-7:

Quote

With these words, he led his army against Mithridates, having thirty thousand foot-soldiers, and twenty-five hundred horsemen. But when he had come within sight of the enemy and seen with amazement their multitude, he desired to refrain from battle and draw out the time. But Marius, whom Sertorius had sent to Mithridates from Spain with an army, came out to meet him, and challenged him to combat, and so he put his forces in array to fight the issue out. 6 But presently, as they were on the point of joining battle, with no apparent change of weather, but all on a sudden, the sky burst asunder, and a huge, flame-like body was seen to fall between the two armies. In shape, it was most like a wine-jar, and in colour, like molten silver. Both sides were astonished at the sight, and separated. 7 This marvel, as they say, occurred in Phrygia, at a place called Otryae.

(This is an image of a pithos, wine-jar).

Discussion of the incident by Stothers (scroll down).

It would be preferable to read the account in the original language: but I'm afraid ancient Greek is beyond me ...

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Yes.  Some of the incidents were first hand reports or aftermath reports.  But mostly it's "Cassius told me that the army saw...."" which is a second or third-hand account.

Second and third hand. Okay i see your point but the coincidences outweigh any doubts in this case. 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

...the original words would have been in Latin or Greek. There was no English in Lucullus’ time. 

—Jaylemurph 

Good one Mr Obvious. 

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Good one Mr Obvious. 

Hey, you’re the one presenting an on-its-face inaccuracy as a worthwhile source. 

...and only a bad workman blames his tools. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just a little background on the Tulli Papyrus.

The Tulli Papyrus 

The story of the Tulli Papyrus is a strange one. The document was reportedly among the papers left behind by Alberto Tulli, director of the Vatican’s Egyptian Museum, when he passed away. However, it has since been lost. 

According to the legend, it was originally found by Tulli and his brother, a Vatican priest, during a visit to Cairo in 1934. The pair couldn’t afford to purchase it, so they made a copy, which then went through multiple translations.    

Supposedly, the document described a strange event witnessed by Pharoah Thutmose III: “In the year 22, in the third month of winter, in the sixth hour of the day, the scribes of the House of Life noticed a circle of fire that was coming from the sky [...] From the mouth it emitted a foul breath. It had no head. Its body was one rod long and one rod wide. It had no voice.”   

More of the disks kept appearing, then eventually the whole group of them vanished to the south, dropping a rain of fish and birds in their wake.    

A fascinating encounter, if true—but the papyrus can no longer be found and was never verified as authentic in the first place.   

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Windowpane said:

AFAIK, Plutarch wrote in Greek.

From Lucullus, 8.5-7:

(This is an image of a pithos, wine-jar).

Discussion of the incident by Stothers (scroll down).

It would be preferable to read the account in the original language: but I'm afraid ancient Greek is beyond me ...

Yeah the real translation sounds like a meteorite but the earlier one appears to have been 'modified' or 'UFO'ized' to make it sound like a space ship.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Second and third hand. Okay i see your point but the coincidences outweigh any doubts in this case. 

In most cases, no.  The second and third hand accounts are filtered through belief systems... so a comet might be "the arrow of the Lord" and a Fata Morgana could be turned into a number of things.  You have to know when and where and conditions to understand if it's really an unknown or a misidentification.

[Unusual Tournament]

58 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

In most cases, no.  The second and third hand accounts are filtered through belief systems... so a comet might be "the arrow of the Lord" and a Fata Morgana could be turned into a number of things.  You have to know when and where and conditions to understand if it's really an unknown or a misidentification.

NO thats not right. A weird event happened. One that wasn't blamed on demons or the Gods. The incident didn't fit into their world view or their religious one and it stood out as an anomaly and recorded as one. I think you've mistaken my willingness to meet you half way as a sign that my argument is weak. Its not!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

8 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Some more modern  - stuff rained down.

https://www.liveabout.com/true-stories-of-weird-rain-2593891

 

 

Hallemoolah, it’s raining cows...

[Unusual Tournament]

14 hours ago, Timothy said:

I ignorantly assumed that he was blissfully ignorant, rather than deliberately ignorant. 

Noted for future reference. 

Please don't wind him up. 

[Timothy]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Please don't wind him up. 

Are you talking in third person? Or talking about @Hanslune? 

I honestly don’t know. 

Thanks.

[Timothy]

7 hours ago, Kenemet said:

In most cases, no.  The second and third hand accounts are filtered through belief systems... so a comet might be "the arrow of the Lord" and a Fata Morgana could be turned into a number of things.  You have to know when and where and conditions to understand if it's really an unknown or a misidentification.

This is a very good way to explain it. 

Thanks! 

If @Captain Risky can’t get this and still thinks that ‘the coincidences outweigh any doubts in this case.’, then I’m sold that the deficiencies lie with him.

[Unusual Tournament]

Back on tract I think it’s time to explore the relevant links between art and iconography. The Baghdad battery and various Christian icons and also the Great Pyramid. 

[Unusual Tournament]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts

https://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens/videos/ancient-ufo-sightings

https://www.ancient-origins.net/ufo

[Piney]

37 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts

Quote

The idea that ancient astronauts existed is not taken seriously by most academics, and has received no credible attention in peer reviewed studies.

^[5] When proponents of the idea present evidence in favor of their beliefs, it is often distorted or fabricated.^[6]

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Of course it’s not taken seriously by academics. Neither was UFO’s until the U.S. military and intelligence services started briefing the president.

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

The ideas might have some validity but lack any supporting evidence whatsoever.

Example: An alien robotic craft with an advanced AI may have entered this solar system 750,000 years ago and reported on conditions here. Given it had taken 2 centuries to arrive. It remained in a heliocentric orbit until a non-correctable fault silenced it an 187,000 years later.

Now if something like that happened would we have evidence of it? Nope

Lets say it went into orbit around earth: any evidence - nope

That it sent probes down for samples - yep - if we could find one of the defunct probes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the aliens actually come themselves and land on the earth (ignoring possible biological catastrophe)  and encourage humans (in languages they somehow learned to speak) to make large stone structures..........ahhhh, er well.....

 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Of course it’s not taken seriously by academics.

I caught Georgie High Hair in sooo many lies it was pathetic.

3 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 Neither was UFO’s until the U.S. military and intelligence services started briefing the president.

Consider the source. 

Let's look at it more pragmatic like. They aren't taken seriously by the Japanese Military or Intelligence Services. 

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

The ideas might have some validity but lack any supporting evidence whatsoever.

Example: An alien robotic craft with an advanced AI may have entered this solar system 750,000 years ago and reported on conditions here. Given it had taken 2 centuries to arrive. It remained in a heliocentric orbit until a non-correctable fault silenced it an 187,000 years later.

Now if something like that happened would we have evidence of it? Nope

Lets say it went into orbit around earth: any evidence - nope

That it sent probes down for samples - yep - if we could find one of the defunct probes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the aliens actually come themselves and land on the earth (ignoring possible biological catastrophe)  and encourage humans (in languages they somehow learned to speak) to make large stone structures..........ahhhh, er well.....

 

Giorgio Tsoukalos is that you?

Edited June 24, 2019 by XenoFish

[Hanslune]

14 minutes ago, Piney said:

I caught Georgie High Hair in sooo many lies it was pathetic.

Consider the source. 

Let's look at it more pragmatic like. They aren't taken seriously by the Japanese Military or Intelligence Services. 

The US government started looking at UFO seriously - because they didn't know what they were and thought they might be Soviet

UFOs have been subject to investigations over the years that varied widely in scope and scientific rigor. Governments or independent academics in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Japan, Peru, France, Belgium, Sweden, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Mexico, Spain, and the Soviet Union are known to have investigated UFO reports at various times.

Among the best known government studies are the ghost rockets investigation by the Swedish military (1946–1947), Project Blue Book, previously Project Sign and Project Grudge, conducted by the USAF from 1947 until 1969, the secret U.S. Army/Air Force Project Twinkle investigation into green fireballs (1948–1951), the secret USAF Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14^[42] by the Battelle Memorial Institute, and the Brazilian Air Force's 1977 Operação Prato (Operation Saucer). France has had an ongoing investigation (GEPAN/SEPRA/GEIPAN) within its space agency Centre national d'études spatiales (CNES) since 1977; the government of Uruguay has had a similar investigation since 1989.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_flying_object#Investigations

They (various governments and organizations) investigate them find most are nothing but a small amount remain 'unknown'. That's been the status for over 70 years -certainly no government considers them dangerous or aliens. Just aerial phenom.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Hanslune
Forgot to put the source link in