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papageorge1

Update on the Peruvian Mummy - New Species?

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

So where is there debunking of the stuff in the new video I presented?

The old question again: Who officially determines something is 'debunked' amidst a controversy. 

in your case you will not except any debunking of this mummy, i posted two links you refused to watch as you damn others who didnt watch your video

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Sorry, I am not insecure enough to rise to that bait and insist I know better than anyone else in all cases. I don't. If I see a peer reviewed journal revealing the world shaking news that an alien life form is verified by DNA, I will sit up and look. I am not an expert in that field. Not even a serious hobbyist. My field is the esoteric, with a profound hobby of the study of psychology and religion. That does not remotely make me qualified to make such a call.

My Joe Average persona allows a 10% chance it could be real. That s the best I can muster for this lacking DNA proof.

Don't think I have a problem with that. My problem is with the 0% and 100% types at this point.

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Carnoferox
3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

What can you know about scientists in a video you didn't watch?

I know that Gaia's "scientists" include journalist and known serial hoaxer Jaime Maussan and "biophysics" (soul and aura pseudoscience) researcher Konstantin Korotkov. Neither of them have a background in archaeology, anatomy, or genetics, or have ever published any peer-reviewed papers, but both have a long history of falsified evidence.

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the13bats

here is a fun video,

the young man puts his money, and livelihood where his mouth is, explains the 3 finger hand very well.

now when i saw Jaime Maussan is even vaugly involved im done, hes never been anything but a hoaxer for profits

 

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toast
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

A company presenting self-help and educational videos

Educational videos? Yes. For tree-hugger and people who claim to be able to hear colors.

Edited by toast
2xg!!!!!
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papageorge1
3 minutes ago, toast said:

Educational videos? Yes. For tree-huger and people who claim to be able to hear colors.

Spoken like a true dyed-in-the-wool materialist. I've seen/heard/experienced too much to hold that worldview.  I now believe in things I would have scoffed at years ago. I now know to do less scoffing.

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Piney
2 hours ago, the13bats said:

in your case you will not except any debunking of this mummy, i posted two links you refused to watch as you damn others who didnt watch your video

I posted the same 2 links in my original post. Then watched it for ****s and giggles. None of those "scientists" in the video had any background in archaeology, physiology, biology or genetics.

 

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Night Walker
22 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

In the past some mummies from Peru were discussed on this forum. These creatures were suggested to be a human-like creature unknown to science. Well, here is a new video from Gaia on the subject that furthers and strengthens the mystery in my opinion.

I am well aware that the collection of skeptical critics will attack this from every angle possible. That is to be expected for anything paranormal/crpto/alien. I've probably heard all these types of attacks but I still think this thing is likely a major find and something unknown to science. I would like to hear the opinion of anyone willing to watch this 11 minute video.

 

I watched the video and I have some observations and questions for you, Papageorge...

This video is from June 2017 - it is not an update nor is it new. These claims are originally from a state-controlled Russian media outlet in March, 2017, but soon went global and made international headlines in the following months. In March, 2018, the claims were effectively debunked as literally "fake news". It does raise some interesting questions but perhaps not in the kind you seek - https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/03/13/russian-propaganda-three-fingered-mummies-nazca-peru-are-aliens-12696

Has anything changed from the debunking? That would be an "update"...

Edited by Night Walker
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papageorge1
16 minutes ago, Night Walker said:

I watched the video and I have some observations and questions for you, Papageorge...

This video is from June 2017 - it is not an update nor is it new. These claims are originally from a state-controlled Russian media outlet in March, 2017, but soon went global and made international headlines in the following months. In March, 2018, the claims were effectively debunked as literally "fake news". It does raise some interesting questions but perhaps not in the kind you seek - https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/03/13/russian-propaganda-three-fingered-mummies-nazca-peru-are-aliens-12696

Has anything changed from the debunking? That would be an "update"...

This comes from Gaia which is not a Russian state controlled news agency.

i only believe this is ‘claimed’ to be debunked like every single paranormal/crypto/alien story is claimed to be. So the phrases ‘been debunked’ and ‘proved’ don’t overly impress me.

I don’t know anything more than I am sharing here. This is only a sideline interest of mine. From my impression of some of the people on Gaia this gets my consideration and I consider the attacks too. 

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Tatetopa
22 hours ago, Piney said:

The most disgusting part about it is their parts are from looted NA graves. ****ers should be in prison.......

I can verify this practice.  I know a Warm Springs artist whose family found some of the jewelry buried with his grandmother in  a Native Art store of  good reputation.  It was returned when the store found out, but the grave robber had fake id and credentials and was not caught.  So we are not just talking about ancient graves.

It is common for pot hunters to be apprehended by Forest Rangers in Oregon on protected sites.

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Piney
1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

I can verify this practice.  I know a Warm Springs artist whose family found some of the jewelry buried with his grandmother in  a Native Art store of  good reputation.  It was returned when the store found out, but the grave robber had fake id and credentials and was not caught.  So we are not just talking about ancient graves.

It is common for pot hunters to be apprehended by Forest Rangers in Oregon on protected sites.

When they finally banned the possession of human remains in New Jersey the advo guys were ratting out the pot hunters right and left. One guy had a attic room full of remains. There is still much we haven't recovered. 

 There are other states where you can own Indian remains found on private land. Just not White remains. :hmm:

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the13bats
9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Don't think I have a problem with that. My problem is with the 0% and 100% types at this point.

the only 100%ers i see here are die hard dear true believers who refuse to consider any options except their own delusions.

7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Spoken like a true dyed-in-the-wool materialist. I've seen/heard/experienced too much to hold that worldview.  I now believe in things I would have scoffed at years ago. I now know to do less scoffing.

thats the rub, not everyone shares the same experences if xxxx says he has seen Elvis ( Presley not Costello ) morph into bigfoot and ride nessie bearback through a interdiamential portal in a 100th of a second to a planet of alien spirit fairy enities thats all well and good and when xxxx tells his tale with no evidence, no proof some will believe at face value others like myself will smile, in that case chuckle a little and say no proof?

then to me its just a "story" that is fair and should be excepted with no insult or resulting anger but many in xxxxs place take it personal and go on insulting personal attacks only killing any lingering shred of credibilty or intergriety they might have had.

the video you posted is very intriguing and gets the mind engaged, but each veiwer comes from his or her background and discipline, and view it with their eyes not yours for example not to sound pompous i know gaffs, and while sure a authentic mummy 100s,1000s of years old might to some not look too different than a well made gaff this mummy looks far too good, it has a feel of gaff but so what, how it appears proves zero either way,

the fingers, if i was to make one i wouldnt start with desecrated stolen human remains but a good skeleton prop hand and flesh it in doing like the young man in the video i posted pointed out, cutting to the wrist it would give the exact look, since my work isnt subject to xrays real bones are not needed, if it were i would use med school case offs of donated remains,  its easy to recreate.

more telling is the fact as pointed out your mummy video is old more so as far as this type science goes, the promised DNA results have as far as i can tell have not been published which is very telling but thats only a start,

as much as hoaxer showmen like Jaime Maussan would like "his" examiners to have final say it doesnt work that way, results would have to be published and accepted and samples provided to other labs that could conduct their own DNA tests to remove possibility of biases, or other mistakes and collaborate or denounce the findings,

so this threads mummy would just be thought provoking if not for the fact many others have stepped in and debunked it it doesnt change the debunking results just because blind true believers refuse to accept the results, these are the same believers who call others closed minded, they need to let it sink in and grasp anything presented in this for profit video are just claims not collaberated outside their camp.

so without holding my breath and likely mostly forgetting about it as i doubt it will ever come i will wait and see if proper DNA tests are conducted and results are made available to the scientific community, but for now its a dedunked hoax.

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Night Walker
55 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

This comes from Gaia which is not a Russian state controlled news agency.

i only believe this is ‘claimed’ to be debunked like every single paranormal/crypto/alien story is claimed to be. So the phrases ‘been debunked’ and ‘proved’ don’t overly impress me.

I don’t know anything more than I am sharing here. This is only a sideline interest of mine. From my impression of some of the people on Gaia this gets my consideration and I consider the attacks too. 

Who/what is Gaia? They are into entertainment not peer review, right? 

If this is an update from Gaia then it only shows what the original propaganda claimed and does not add anything new or even deal with the problems raised by the debunking. It is not new and you seem to acknowledge that there are no actual updates or rebuttals to the debunking - is that correct? The issue seems to be that you have reservations about the debunking - is that correct? If so, what are those reservations?

For example:

What makes you think head researcher Konstantin Korotkov qualifies as a real scientist (ie someone with recognized qualifications in the natural sciences)? Doesn't his colourful history raise some concerns over his authenticity for you? Gaia have also featured many of Korotkov's other sensational and unsubstantiated claims - but they are in the entertainment industry. So what makes you think the Gaia Inc. is a more accurate and reliable source of up to date science information than peer review or even Google Scholar?

From Gaia's own press release Nov 5, 2018: Gaia, Inc., formerly Gaiam, Inc., is a global digital pseudoscience and yoga video streaming service and online community delivering curated media to 515,000 subscribers in over 185 countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia,_Inc.

 

Edited by Night Walker
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papageorge1
2 hours ago, the13bats said:

the only 100%ers i see here are die hard dear true believers who refuse to consider any options except their own delusions.

 

phew... at least I escaped bats negative judgment as a true believer as I was only at 66% the last I posted.

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

 

thats the rub, not everyone shares the same experences if xxxx says he has seen Elvis ( Presley not Costello ) morph into bigfoot and ride nessie bearback through a interdiamential portal in a 100th of a second to a planet of alien spirit fairy enities thats all well and good and when xxxx tells his tale with no evidence, no proof some will believe at face value others like myself will smile, in that case chuckle a little and say no proof?

then to me its just a "story" that is fair and should be excepted with no insult or resulting anger but many in xxxxs place take it personal and go on insulting personal attacks only killing any lingering shred of credibilty or intergriety they might have had.

the video you posted is very intriguing and gets the mind engaged, but each veiwer comes from his or her background and discipline, and view it with their eyes not yours for example not to sound pompous i know gaffs, and while sure a authentic mummy 100s,1000s of years old might to some not look too different than a well made gaff this mummy looks far too good, it has a feel of gaff but so what, how it appears proves zero either way,

the fingers, if i was to make one i wouldnt start with desecrated stolen human remains but a good skeleton prop hand and flesh it in doing like the young man in the video i posted pointed out, cutting to the wrist it would give the exact look, since my work isnt subject to xrays real bones are not needed, if it were i would use med school case offs of donated remains,  its easy to recreate.

more telling is the fact as pointed out your mummy video is old more so as far as this type science goes, the promised DNA results have as far as i can tell have not been published which is very telling but thats only a start,

as much as hoaxer showmen like Jaime Maussan would like "his" examiners to have final say it doesnt work that way, results would have to be published and accepted and samples provided to other labs that could conduct their own DNA tests to remove possibility of biases, or other mistakes and collaborate or denounce the findings,

so this threads mummy would just be thought provoking if not for the fact many others have stepped in and debunked it it doesnt change the debunking results just because blind true believers refuse to accept the results, these are the same believers who call others closed minded, they need to let it sink in and grasp anything presented in this for profit video are just claims not collaberated outside their camp.

so without holding my breath and likely mostly forgetting about it as i doubt it will ever come i will wait and see if proper DNA tests are conducted and results are made available to the scientific community, but for now its a dedunked hoax.

and I am respecting the opinions of the scientists in the video as more important than bats' opinion.

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Night Walker said:

Who/what is Gaia? They are into entertainment not peer review, right? 

If this is an update from Gaia then it only shows what the original propaganda claimed and does not add anything new or even deal with the problems raised by the debunking. It is not new and you seem to acknowledge that there are no actual updates or rebuttals to the debunking - is that correct? The issue seems to be that you have reservations about the debunking - is that correct? If so, what are those reservations?

For example:

What makes you think head researcher Konstantin Korotkov qualifies as a real scientist (ie someone with recognized qualifications in the natural sciences)? Doesn't his colourful history raise some concerns over his authenticity for you? Gaia have also featured many of Korotkov's other sensational and unsubstantiated claims - but they are in the entertainment industry. So what makes you think the Gaia Inc. is a more accurate and reliable source of up to date science information than peer review or even Google Scholar?

 

 

I also consider how a certain materialist group coalesce on anything suggesting the paranormal/alien/crypto. The purpose of the video was only to give an overview of their scientists' observations. 

2 hours ago, Night Walker said:

 

From Gaia's own press release Nov 5, 2018: Gaia, Inc., formerly Gaiam, Inc., is a global digital pseudoscience and yoga video streaming service and online community delivering curated media to 515,000 subscribers in over 185 countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia,_Inc.

 

LOL...LOL...If you can show me were Gaia referred to themselves as 'pseudoscience' I will be impressed.

By the way, Wikipedia is just a user-edited source that has been edited by Guerilla Skepticism on Wikipedia. I consider them a bit of a biased source.

Edited by papageorge1
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the13bats
6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

phew... at least I escaped bats negative judgment as a true believer as I was only at 66% the last I posted.

and I am respecting the opinions of the scientists in the video as more important than bats' opinion.

you certanly are obseesed over a subject you claim to only have a "sideline interest" in.

nice clever cherry picking to derail and avoid facts.

its not about negative judgement or any "judgement" for that matter no matter how you try to askew it with smoke and mirrors you have made it clear you are a blind true believer, you ignore anyone who tags you that way but lots of folks here see you that way.

and pg you so grandly missed not only mine but so many things in this thread, "bats" opinions are based on those of real legitimate researchers and scientists who years back debunked your mummy.

your ego is so huge yet fragile that you will accept only your own personal opinion on any topic doesnt matter if that opinion you formed is based on information you gather from shady wesites, known hoaxers of no interigrity or from dead people you claim contact you.

pg alien mummy=epic fail.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Piney said:

When they finally banned the possession of human remains in New Jersey the advo guys were ratting out the pot hunters right and left. One guy had a attic room full of remains. There is still much we haven't recovered. 

 There are other states where you can own Indian remains found on private land. Just not White remains. :hmm:

Yeah the Feds busted somebody in Oregon a few years back  with a house full of artifacts and remains.  He was looking on Forest Service and BLM  public land and they came down hard.  I won't say too late, but not soon enough.  He had been doing it for years.  When I worked for Weyerhaeuser, we had private security on the timber patches, mostly for timber thieves, but they would report suspicious activity and diggers when they came across them.

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the13bats

as this drifts a little, the story of Elmer J. McCurdy is a bit interesting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_McCurdy

 

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Night Walker
4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I also consider how a certain materialist group coalesce on anything suggesting the paranormal/alien/crypto. The purpose of the video was only to give an overview of their scientists' observations. 

You are now moving into conspiracy theory territory but I am not exactly following you - care to elaborate?. I appreciate that you posted the video for discussion but you didn't answer any of my questions. If this is some sort of conspiracy then wouldn't your attempts at obfuscation put you on the wrong side of it? 

How did you come to the conclusion that Gaia Inc.'s purpose for this video was "only to give an overview of their scientists' observations"? That would seem to be at odds with Gaia Inc.'s own stated goals...

 

LOL...LOL...If you can show me were Gaia referred to themselves as 'pseudoscience' I will be impressed. 

You are correct - Gaia Inc. describe themselves as "a conscious media and community company" and "a global video streaming service and community that provides curated conscious media in four primary channels—Seeking Truth, Transformation, Alternative Healing and Yoga—to its subscribers in 185 countries with approximately 8,000 titles. Over 90% of its library is exclusive to Gaia, and approximately 80% of the views are generated by content produced or owned by Gaia."

Perhaps Gaia Inc. bought the rights to this story from the original Russian media outlet and that is why there are no other newer sources for these claims - given the paucity of information we cannot know for certain...

Gaia Inc.'s own stated goals are not about promoting science of the peer review kind. "Seeking Truth" is very different to the process of building true knowledge...

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Tatetopa
9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I also consider how a certain materialist group coalesce on anything suggesting the paranormal/alien/crypto. The purpose of the video was only to give an overview of their scientists' observations. 

Greetings and best wishes papageorge1.  I may be part of that group of materialists or skeptics. I believe there may be some things out there that we are not yet aware of or do not currently understand.  I do look at the reports avidly.  I watched the video.

But like the little boy who was promised a real live pony and was given a picture clipped out of a magazine, I am now wary of promises and claims.  I dig into them always looking for the pony, but so far all I have found is pictures.

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papageorge1
9 hours ago, the13bats said:

 you have made it clear you are a blind true believer, 

,,,and you have made it clear to me that you don't really even grasp what I say. To you, any oxygen on a paranormal/crypto/alien subject makes a 100% believer. You are a crude black and white thinker in my appraisal.

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the13bats
5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

,,,and you have made it clear to me that you don't really even grasp what I say. To you, any oxygen on a paranormal/crypto/alien subject makes a 100% believer. You are a crude black and white thinker in my appraisal.

and your biased delusinal opinions do not change the fact you are a blind true believer with trollish tendencies

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papageorge1
5 hours ago, Night Walker said:

You are now moving into conspiracy theory territory but I am not exactly following you - care to elaborate?. I appreciate that you posted the video for discussion but you didn't answer any of my questions. If this is some sort of conspiracy then wouldn't your attempts at obfuscation put you on the wrong side of it? 

How did you come to the conclusion that Gaia Inc.'s purpose for this video was "only to give an overview of their scientists' observations"? That would seem to be at odds with Gaia Inc.'s own stated goals...

You are not understanding my position. I am not claiming to know everything there is to know about this. And I am saying the same thing about you.

At this point judging the cast of characters in society today and all the information I've seen, my opinion at this point is that this has a good chance of being a legit mystery. In your vehement dislike of this case, you are trying to turn me into its full-fledged proponent that this 'IS REAL". You are moving my goal posts because that is what you want to attack.

5 hours ago, Night Walker said:

You are correct - Gaia Inc. describe themselves as "a conscious media and community company" and "a global video streaming service and community that provides curated conscious media in four primary channels—Seeking Truth, Transformation, Alternative Healing and Yoga—to its subscribers in 185 countries with approximately 8,000 titles. Over 90% of its library is exclusive to Gaia, and approximately 80% of the views are generated by content produced or owned by Gaia."

Perhaps Gaia Inc. bought the rights to this story from the original Russian media outlet and that is why there are no other newer sources for these claims - given the paucity of information we cannot know for certain...

Gaia Inc.'s own stated goals are not about promoting science of the peer review kind. "Seeking Truth" is very different to the process of building true knowledge...

Well thanks at least for admitting I was correct. My opinion is that Gaia is a decent company dealing with very leading edge things. These are just the type of things a certain segment of society vehemently dislikes and the internet will of course be inundated with attacks against them. Hearing attacks like the one you now corrected does not overly impress me. I consider everything but I am skeptical of skeptics too.

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papageorge1
29 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Greetings and best wishes papageorge1.  I may be part of that group of materialists or skeptics. I believe there may be some things out there that we are not yet aware of or do not currently understand.  I do look at the reports avidly.  I watched the video.

But like the little boy who was promised a real live pony and was given a picture clipped out of a magazine, I am now wary of promises and claims.  I dig into them always looking for the pony, but so far all I have found is pictures.

Well an open-minded skeptical position is the correct one in my opinion. As an open-minded skeptic myself, I have determined that there are those of a vehement type that will claim every pony is just a false picture. We must think for ourselves and consider everything.

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papageorge1
20 minutes ago, the13bats said:

and your biased delusinal opinions do not change the fact you are a blind true believer with trollish tendencies

and your own posts confirm again my above appraisal of you....

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