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Nazca bird geoglyphs depict 'exotic' species

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the13bats

the gate was a great example, until it needed repairs from wear from use it was hailed all impossible to exist type thing, yet it had to do with balance and an old vehicle wheel bearing,

just because the guy was illiterate didnt mean he wasnt very clever.

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Jarocal
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

I remember reading somewhere(see link)where somebody hypothesized that they had hot air balloons they used when drawing the lines. I never took it too seriously but it was always more plausible to me than aliens and planes.

 

https://worldhistory.us/latin-american-history/nazca-lines-the-worlds-first-hot-air-balloon-a-theory-of-ancient-flight-in-peru-nazca-desert-mystery.php

That was actually reproduced as an experiment using appropriate textiles in an attempt to show the feasibility. Unfortunately they did not take into account wind speeds at altitude and the tether line snapped.

There is a publication of it somewhere but the most common recounting. Of it I am aware of is in "1491" by Charles Mann. The source may be in the notes/bibliography to his book.

Or the source may be in one of the citations in your link. I do know there was a publication of it prior to the citations in your link. I read in while in school.

Edited by Jarocal
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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, the13bats said:

the gate was a great example, until it needed repairs from wear from use it was hailed all impossible to exist type thing, yet it had to do with balance and an old vehicle wheel bearing,

just because the guy was illiterate didnt mean he wasnt very clever.

yup, I remember them explaining that. They never could it to work as good as he had it working. He was quite a guy. Skinny, short, light weight, but he was sharp. knew his Egyptology to some degree, too.

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Jarocal
55 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

yup, I remember them explaining that. They never could it to work as good as he had it working. He was quite a guy. Skinny, short, light weight, but he was sharp. knew his Egyptology to some degree, too.

Illiterate? I thought he self published some books on magnetism?

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the13bats
46 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

yup, I remember them explaining that. They never could it to work as good as he had it working. He was quite a guy. Skinny, short, light weight, but he was sharp. knew his Egyptology to some degree, too.

not sure it never worked as good?

 

44 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Illiterate? I thought he self published some books on magnetism?

that might be subjective, if it wore enough to need repairs then they fixed it and built a fence so its no longer visitor friendly to play with,

i didnt get to test it before and after, i belive the point is so many said it was impossible and it wasnt and wasnt magic just great engineering.

jarocal, i believe i posted he was "illiterate" but i meant immigrant, and that he had no formal  education, so illiterate in incorrect and just my typing wrong word thinking about right word.

here is an olded write up,

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4149

then a newer one 

https://www.disclose.tv/coral-castle-mystery-100-solved-with-1930s-film-352663

in the video above he shows a still of edward obviously hand cranking the genarator that ive read many times he showed off to tour guests lighting a bulb for as long as he kept cranking, i have no idea if i agree 100% with the video but it was worth including, as its really intriguing.

and the universal clip

 

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skliss
11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@skliss  too

This is an issue (non issue, to me) that crops up in these Nazca Lines threads (and on Ancient Aliens too!) that I find is amusing. It is not difficult *at all* to draw these huge depictions on the ground with great accuracy without viewing it from above. In fact it is simpler than one would normally believe.  And I learned this is grammar school!  lol - oh, those nuns were clever :) 

You draw your depiction on a piece of paper with gridwork on it. Then you draw an enlarged grid on the ground. Then you find all the places on the grid where the depiction goes through that piece of the grid and make your "mark" or your line on the ground. Then do your best to freehand connect the marks you drew. Depending on how many gridlines you have will determine how accurate you would be. 

But there really is no mystery here, not as I see it, anyway. But either way, ya gotta like those Nazca Lines. very beautiful

 

 

Is there proof that the ancient Nazca people knew what a grid system is? I get what you are saying but did they even have a written language, writing instruments and something to write on? Those are the things I think aboit.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Posted (edited)

@the13bats - that video was great!  True 1950's stuff. The announcer, that's how they talked back then. Fast and terse.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, skliss said:

Is there proof that the ancient Nazca people knew what a grid system is? I get what you are saying but did they even have a written language, writing instruments and something to write on? Those are the things I think aboit.

There is no proof that they knew of a grid system. Good point about writing or scribing techniques and instruments, this is from wiki:
"The Nazca, like all other Pre-Columbian societies in South America including the Inca, had no writing system, in contrast to the contemporary Maya of Mesoamerica."  So no. But they do not need a written language to use a grid. They had plenty of artwork so somehow, they could sketch out their subjects.

I don't know for sure what they did, of course, but I don't feel we have to think "exotic" about their technique to lay the lines down. My opinion.

To me, the mystery is, the tremendous amount of earth removed from the tops of those mountains to make them flat top. According to Ancient Aliens (groan) the location where that earth was deposited is unknown. It is not at the bottom of the mountains. weird. 

 

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Jarocal
5 hours ago, skliss said:

Is there proof that the ancient Nazca people knew what a grid system is? I get what you are saying but did they even have a written language, writing instruments and something to write on? Those are the things I think aboit.

  Possible. But as far as I know unattested.

  Later, Maya north of them have tic tac toe looking grids carved in spots. Some academics believe they were used to do calculations with the Mayan math system. Different culture I know, but not unreasonable to fathom that they may have used it to make large projects like the glyphs manageable.

 

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Harte
9 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

There is no proof that they knew of a grid system. Good point about writing or scribing techniques and instruments, this is from wiki:
"The Nazca, like all other Pre-Columbian societies in South America including the Inca, had no writing system, in contrast to the contemporary Maya of Mesoamerica."  So no. But they do not need a written language to use a grid. They had plenty of artwork so somehow, they could sketch out their subjects.

I don't know for sure what they did, of course, but I don't feel we have to think "exotic" about their technique to lay the lines down. My opinion.

To me, the mystery is, the tremendous amount of earth removed from the tops of those mountains to make them flat top. According to Ancient Aliens (groan) the location where that earth was deposited is unknown. It is not at the bottom of the mountains. weird.

There were no mountaintops removed. The lines and drawings are on a plain, not in the mountains. The plain is eroded.

Harte

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Harte said:

There were no mountaintops removed. The lines and drawings are on a plain, not in the mountains. The plain is eroded.

Harte

Harte, am I mixing it up with something else that you can think of?

Here is what it says in AtlasObsura "The Nazca Lines are legendary. Stretching across nearly 200 square miles of high arid plateau,"

I thought they (AA) showed that the plateau was actually mountain tops at one point. Perhaps I'm wrong

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/nazca-lines-peru

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Harte
48 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Harte, am I mixing it up with something else that you can think of?

Here is what it says in AtlasObsura "The Nazca Lines are legendary. Stretching across nearly 200 square miles of high arid plateau,"

I thought they (AA) showed that the plateau was actually mountain tops at one point. Perhaps I'm wrong

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/nazca-lines-peru

They lied. Happens all the time on that show.

Harte

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Earl.Of.Trumps
18 minutes ago, Harte said:

They lied. Happens all the time on that show.

Harte

And I can accept that Harte, no problem.  Now, the link I provided saying it was a plateau, is that correct? Because if it is, there is obviously a big diff between a plateau and "plains". 

Not a burning issue but thanks in advance

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Posted (edited)

I did find this source, Harte (and others)

"Some of the mountain tops look as if they were completely cut off as if someone sliced off the top of the mountain with a near perfect cut. The surrounding mountains have their peak as any normal hilltop or mountain would. But the ones that have been seemingly cut off have what appear to be landing strips on top of the mountain. They look like runways were paved for some aircraft to land there."

Also,  "Another mystery of Nazca is the flat-topped mountain a few miles away from the lines. High above the plain, and containing some of the thicker lines, there is an enormous mountain with a perfectly flat top. It's very possible that the top of this mountain was completely sheared off by something (or someone) to make this level surface to carve more lines on. But no debris from this earth movement is found scattered around the mountain..."

The source is sketchy but it does back up AA.  Link  It's a blog post. Hmmm 

Also, check these pics.. Link to pics of flat mountain tops

 

 

 

nazca 2.png

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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lightly
Posted (edited)

To me, that picture ^^^ looks like the flat areas are what is left of a Much earlier plain...or plateau?   Which eroded into it's current condition?

....maybe those areas are harder,for somereason, than the eroded areas?

Edited by lightly
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Harte
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I did find this source, Harte (and others)

"Some of the mountain tops look as if they were completely cut off as if someone sliced off the top of the mountain with a near perfect cut. The surrounding mountains have their peak as any normal hilltop or mountain would. But the ones that have been seemingly cut off have what appear to be landing strips on top of the mountain. They look like runways were paved for some aircraft to land there."

Also,  "Another mystery of Nazca is the flat-topped mountain a few miles away from the lines. High above the plain, and containing some of the thicker lines, there is an enormous mountain with a perfectly flat top. It's very possible that the top of this mountain was completely sheared off by something (or someone) to make this level surface to carve more lines on. But no debris from this earth movement is found scattered around the mountain..."

The source is sketchy but it does back up AA.  Link  It's a blog post. Hmmm 

Also, check these pics.. Link to pics of flat mountain tops

 

 

 

nazca 2.png

A plateau has a plain on the top.

When the plateau erodes, you get remains like small plateaus. With small plains on top.

Now, what I've stated are facts. I'm not gonna argue them .

Believe what you want, even the lies of that inane television show.

 

Harte

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Hanslune
13 minutes ago, Harte said:

A plateau has a plain on the top.

When the plateau erodes, you get remains like small plateaus. With small plains on top.

Now, what I've stated are facts. I'm not gonna argue them .

Believe what you want, even the lies of that inane television show.

 

Harte

Interesting observation: Some years ago I investigate this question. I looked for images from people who have been on top of those mountains - to see how flat they actually are. I have two flat topped mesa's near my home and they look 'flat' in photographs but the on the ground experience shows they are deeply rutted and uneven. So anyway why are there no close up photographs of these sites?  I mean with close up's of the lowland designs you see they were formed by moving darker rocks off a lighter surface - how are the 'airports' made?

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khazarkhum
9 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I did find this source, Harte (and others)

"Some of the mountain tops look as if they were completely cut off as if someone sliced off the top of the mountain with a near perfect cut. The surrounding mountains have their peak as any normal hilltop or mountain would. But the ones that have been seemingly cut off have what appear to be landing strips on top of the mountain. They look like runways were paved for some aircraft to land there."

Also,  "Another mystery of Nazca is the flat-topped mountain a few miles away from the lines. High above the plain, and containing some of the thicker lines, there is an enormous mountain with a perfectly flat top. It's very possible that the top of this mountain was completely sheared off by something (or someone) to make this level surface to carve more lines on. But no debris from this earth movement is found scattered around the mountain..."

The source is sketchy but it does back up AA.  Link  It's a blog post. Hmmm 

Also, check these pics.. Link to pics of flat mountain tops

 

 

 

nazca 2.png

Looks like your typical mesa.

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skliss

So I caught part of an "Unearthed" today about the Nazca lines.  The archeologists brought up the idea of drawings being graph blocked as an answer to spacing out the glyphs but they showed in 3D how many of them are asymmetrical.  As an alternative it was suggested the Nazca used a central line and they paced out the drawings and the archeoligists tried making a simple design. The fact that people have different lengths in their strides accounted in their opinion, for the lack of symmetry. They also definitively said there is no high place/mountain where they Nazca could have looked at their designs. Any way,  thought that was interesting...wish I could have watched the rest.

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Harte

8.27.13-3-800x531.jpg

Harte

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Kenemet
1 hour ago, skliss said:

So I caught part of an "Unearthed" today about the Nazca lines.  The archeologists brought up the idea of drawings being graph blocked as an answer to spacing out the glyphs but they showed in 3D how many of them are asymmetrical.  As an alternative it was suggested the Nazca used a central line and they paced out the drawings and the archeoligists tried making a simple design. The fact that people have different lengths in their strides accounted in their opinion, for the lack of symmetry. They also definitively said there is no high place/mountain where they Nazca could have looked at their designs. Any way,  thought that was interesting...wish I could have watched the rest.

What I wonder is if anyone's used superposition to figure out which parts were laid down first... and second, etc.  It could be that whoever did each design group essentially ignored other designs (much as gang sign will overwrite or ignore other gang sign in tagging... or even deliberately overwrite it.)

...this is based on my informal study of rock art.

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skliss
1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

What I wonder is if anyone's used superposition to figure out which parts were laid down first... and second, etc.  It could be that whoever did each design group essentially ignored other designs (much as gang sign will overwrite or ignore other gang sign in tagging... or even deliberately overwrite it.)

...this is based on my informal study of rock art.

Like I said, I wish I could have watched the whole thing. They also showed how they could have used line of sight, cordage and sticks to make the almost perfectly straight lines. Very interesting.

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Mellon Man
On 28/06/2019 at 5:30 AM, Manwon Lender said:

I think that the scientists have left to much to personal interpretation and haven't based enough of their finding on proven facts. For me there is too much speculation without hard facts.

Although only one is an archaeologist, archaeology is based on personal interpretation. 

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Kenemet
1 hour ago, Mellon Man said:

Although only one is an archaeologist, archaeology is based on personal interpretation. 

(insert very skeptical and somewhat offended tone) ...and you know this... HOW?

 

(asking for an archaeologist... and an archaeologist's dig crew member (me))

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