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Inversion5

Did Nazis nuke 400,000 American soldiers?

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Obviousman
6 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

They were civilians, not soldiers.  How is that justifiable?  Even if it saved a few american lives it is not justifiable.

I have to disagree. It saved a lot of lives and was justifiable; regrettable yes but militarily justifiable.Let's not forget that many (most?) of these civilians were going to be ready to launch themselves at invading troops, were preparing traps, bombs, etc.

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Desertrat56
12 minutes ago, Obviousman said:

I have to disagree. It saved a lot of lives and was justifiable; regrettable yes but militarily justifiable.Let's not forget that many (most?) of these civilians were going to be ready to launch themselves at invading troops, were preparing traps, bombs, etc.

As any civilian who is able, facing invasion, wouldn't you? it sounds like propaganda justification to me. 

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Obviousman
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

As any civilian who is able, facing invasion, wouldn't you? it sounds like propaganda justification to me. 

Then they are not non-combatants.

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Farmer77
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

As any civilian who is able, facing invasion, wouldn't you? it sounds like propaganda justification to me. 

IDK Im about as anti war as it gets but when you have to fight you fight to win. They would have starved and worked our entire nation to death if given the chance.

Something I think many of us forget too is they believed their emperor was divine so there was religious fanaticism keeping the population raging on top of the racism and nationalism

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joc

I think we should all get down on our knees and thank god and truman for the shortest, longest and only nuclear war in history.  It brought about great things for the Japanese and the United States and the world at large.

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freetoroam
47 minutes ago, joc said:

I think we should all get down on our knees and thank god and truman for the shortest, longest and only nuclear war in history.  It brought about great things for the Japanese and the United States and the world at large.

Not this god thing again. 

Can't we just thank man for being the created of war and murder and destruction and hate and fanatics and greed and want of power at any expence, instead? 

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toast
4 hours ago, joc said:

I think we should all get down on our knees and thank god and truman for the shortest, longest and only nuclear war in history.  It brought about great things for the Japanese and the United States and the world at large.

If there is a being we have to thank on our knees for the events happened, and this being is above all and absolute but did not prevented humanity from the events, then Sir, this specific being is a big a$$/h, a very very big a$$/h or better said, the biggest a$$/h ever.

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Helen of Annoy
18 minutes ago, toast said:

If there is a being we have to thank on our knees for the events happened, and this being is above all and absolute but did not prevented humanity from the events, then Sir, this specific being is a big a$$/h, a very very big a$$/h or better said, the biggest a$$/h ever.

In short, free will. Not to digress into saving your soul :lol:  

 

 

Back on topic, what is the topic of this thread? The Americans testing nukes was not American fault or what? Someone help me out with that, I'm stupid. 

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Alchopwn

So to summarise Inversion5, your actual claim is that well after WW2 during the nuclear testing era of the 1950s, that the US military's atomic scientists, including rehabilitated ex-Nazis from Operation Paperclip subjected US servicemen to ionizing radiation after nuclear detonations.   

Yes, this happened.  Atomic Veterans  You are only partially underestanding what happend however.  Allow me to explain.

The US military were incautious with their servicement during nuclear tests, and they were not alone.  So were the French, the UK, and the USSR.  You need to remember that many people thought that radioactive materials were harmless, and even had health giving properties: Examples of radioactive "health" products from the early 20th Century.  Marie Curie herself died of radiation because she wouldn't admit her discovery was dangerous.  Despite increasing scientific evidence about how dangerous ionizing radiation was, many people refused to believe it, just as they refused to believe that smoking was a health hazard.  In fact, John Wayne died from cancer he got from the filming of his movie "Ghengis Khan" in the Los Alamos bomb site, in co-operation with the US military who wanted to quash the stories about nuclear material being dangerous, only to have the cast and crew of the movie slowly rot and die.  Oops.

As to Paperclip Nazis in the nuclear program, there must have been a couple, but not as many as you are suggesting, and never in positions of authority.  The main value the USA derived from Paperclip Nazis was in aerospace technologies such as rocketry and jet engine designs.  You see, the Nazis never developed an atomic weapon, while the USA did, and without Nazi involvement (but not without Communist involvement as the Rosenbergs showed).  In short the Nazis had nothing much to teach the USA about nukes other than how to put them on rockets.  It was a good idea for the USA to grab Nazi nuclear scientists, but 95% to stop the USSR getting them. 

This was a time when the President himself couldn't even pronounce "Nuclear" (Truman said "new-cue-lar", not "new-clear", and idiots today are still copying his mistake).  In short, those stupid and incautious acts  of nuclear were conducted by a US military that was in public denial about the effects of ionizing radiation, and while it might be convenient to blame Nazis, it just ain't so.  I would be the first to level the accusation if there were any truth to it, but there isn't.  This was bonafide 100% US made lethal nuclear stupidity, and not as bad as the USSR's shenannigans in the same discipline, in the same era. 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy

The German nuclear programme was very far from producing anything useful at a time when the US was assembling the first nuclear bomb. The Germans were advanced in some areas, but in others they were behind. Nuclear technology and electronics are good examples of areas where the allies were ahead.

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Alchopwn
12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

So to summarise Inversion5, your actual claim is that well after WW2 during the nuclear testing era of the 1950s, that the US military's atomic scientists, including rehabilitated ex-Nazis from Operation Paperclip subjected US servicemen to ionizing radiation after nuclear detonations.   

Yes, this happened.  Atomic Veterans  You are only partially underestanding what happend however.  Allow me to explain.

The US military were incautious with their servicement during nuclear tests, and they were not alone.  So were the French, the UK, and the USSR.  You need to remember that many people thought that radioactive materials were harmless, and even had health giving properties: Examples of radioactive "health" products from the early 20th Century.  Marie Curie herself died of radiation because she wouldn't admit her discovery was dangerous.  Despite increasing scientific evidence about how dangerous ionizing radiation was, many people refused to believe it, just as they refused to believe that smoking was a health hazard.  In fact, John Wayne died from cancer he got from the filming of his movie "Ghengis Khan" in the Los Alamos bomb site, in co-operation with the US military who wanted to quash the stories about nuclear material being dangerous, only to have the cast and crew of the movie slowly rot and die.  Oops.

As to Paperclip Nazis in the nuclear program, there must have been a couple, but not as many as you are suggesting, and never in positions of authority.  The main value the USA derived from Paperclip Nazis was in aerospace technologies such as rocketry and jet engine designs.  You see, the Nazis never developed an atomic weapon, while the USA did, and without Nazi involvement (but not without Communist involvement as the Rosenbergs showed).  In short the Nazis had nothing much to teach the USA about nukes other than how to put them on rockets.  It was a good idea for the USA to grab Nazi nuclear scientists, but 95% to stop the USSR getting them. 

This was a time when the President himself couldn't even pronounce "Nuclear" (Truman said "new-cue-lar", not "new-clear", and idiots today are still copying his mistake).  In short, those stupid and incautious acts  of nuclear testing were conducted by a US military that was in public denial about the effects of ionizing radiation, and while it might be convenient to blame Nazis, it just ain't so.  I would be the first to level the accusation if there were any truth to it, but there isn't.  This was bonafide 100% US made lethal nuclear stupidity, and not as bad as the USSR's shenannigans in the same discipline, in the same era. 

 

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openozy

All's fair in love and war,not right but fair.

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joc
On 6/25/2019 at 6:42 AM, freetoroam said:

Not this god thing again. 

Can't we just thank man for being the created of war and murder and destruction and hate and fanatics and greed and want of power at any expence, instead? 

oh please...

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Alchopwn

To clarify my position, I was not condoning anything that happened, merely stating the history as I am aware of it.  I think the treatment of the atomic veterans on all sides of the Cold War by their respective governments and the callousness with which their lives were endangered was criminal.  There was enough evidence that they were being endangered in a way commensurate to subjecting them to poison gas without protection.  The military and governments involved should have shown proper regard for their servicemen's lives, and they should be held culpable for their illnesses.

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Desertrat56
6 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

To clarify my position, I was not condoning anything that happened, merely stating the history as I am aware of it.  I think the treatment of the atomic veterans on all sides of the Cold War by their respective governments and the callousness with which their lives were endangered was criminal.  There was enough evidence that they were being endangered in a way commensurate to subjecting them to poison gas without protection.  The military and governments involved should have shown proper regard for their servicemen's lives, and they should be held culpable for their illnesses.

That kind of behaviour was still going on in the U.S. Army in the 70's.  I was subjected to an experiment and our unit was chosen often because it was only attached to a battalion and moved around from base to base.  Luckily the experiment I was subjected to seemed to involve injecting some kind of tracking device that they were using to test the satellite equipment that was being developed back then.  It was somewhat benign as far as those types of experiments go.  We were not told why we were there and when we asked we were given an obvious lie.  The person in charge was a civilian wearing a uniform fresh out of a PX package, still had the creases on it.  I suspect those kinds of things are still going on.

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third_eye

Too bad the LSD tests were discontinued, plenty of volunteers available these days, heck, I bet they'd find a solution to end all wars in no time... 

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Earl.Of.Trumps

400,000??   what did the US lose in total (European theater and pacific theater)  240,000?

something don't look quite right :blink:

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Cookie Monster
On ‎22‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 4:08 PM, Inversion5 said:

Nazis Nuked 400,000 American Soldiers

Mostly, people with a leap in technology seem to take advantage of the situation and play on people's ignorance. For what, I don't know... pleasure? curiosity? grandiose-ness? safety? some sort of advancement for civilization?. There was a thermal nuclear explosion conducted (see movie title below) that "they" acknowledged at that time that yielded more than originally thought. Those guys were super smart. They knew there was a margin of error +/-, and for sure from the start of testing the first nuke. Their underlying principles of physics were there, expressing that probability varies. I want to see the math where they made their errors (there should be no errors of alternative possibilities arising from the variations found in probability, which again, they had). "They" ordered men to take a hit, most likely without their consent, as they did with a total of 400,000 American soldiers, below rank of scientists, including German scientists... Nazi (project paper clip) scientists, I would imagine. When did the atomic soldiers' tests start? "These nuke guys/generals & scientists" just are coming off so bad right now I want to smack them, if they are still alive. I also want to see what happened to our soldiers that took these nukes to the face. You know they have that on camera. I am sure some men were vaporized.

See Also: "Trinity and Beyond The Atomic Bomb Movie 1995"

I feel sorry for those guys who were nuclear lab rats along with those who it was later admitted were injected with Plutonium and viruses.

But the current generation of morons who let themselves be vaccinated against everything going makes me laugh. The unquestionable trust they show towards people in authority is deeply concerning.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

400,000??   what did the US lose in total (European theater and pacific theater)  240,000?

something don't look quite right :blink:

I doesn't look right because it never happened.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I feel sorry for those guys who were nuclear lab rats along with those who it was later admitted were injected with Plutonium and viruses.

But the current generation of morons who let themselves be vaccinated against everything going makes me laugh. The unquestionable trust they show towards people in authority is deeply concerning.

This is not an anti vaxer thread. We have plenty of those all ready.

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Golden Duck
On 11/07/2019 at 12:13 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

400,000??   what did the US lose in total (European theater and pacific theater)  240,000?

something don't look quite right :blink:

US Civil War fits better.

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Alchopwn
On 7/11/2019 at 12:31 AM, RabidMongoose said:

I feel sorry for those guys who were nuclear lab rats along with those who it was later admitted were injected with Plutonium and viruses.

Agreed.  I was somewhat stunned to discover that people had been injected with plutonium.  Here is a list of unethical human experiments for general perusal:  Unethical Human Experimentation in the USA

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Alchopwn
On 7/11/2019 at 12:13 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

400,000??   what did the US lose in total (European theater and pacific theater)  240,000?

something don't look quite right :blink:

Amen.  The figures are blown out of all proportion.  Of course not everyone would have died from it, (or not quickly at least).  Idk how many civilians were subjected to fallout from the Los Alamos blasts, or the Pacific tests for that matter.

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toast
3 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Agreed.  I was somewhat stunned to discover that people had been injected with plutonium.  Here is a list of unethical human experiments for general perusal:  Unethical Human Experimentation in the USA

I always remember this movie when its about human guinea pigs in connection to military testing.

Quote "Minutes after the blast the troops are moving toward to Ground Zero to see for themselves the effects of nuclear devices, this first hand experience is one which will be embedded in the memory of every man".  This cannot be healthy I would say.

The sequence I`m talking about starts at 23:00

 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, toast said:

Quote "Minutes after the blast the troops are moving toward to Ground Zero to see for themselves the effects of nuclear devices, this first hand experience is one which will be embedded in the memory of every man".  This cannot be healthy I would say.

One of those in the video could be my grandfather. His unit had to go to nuke testing.  I dont recall the whole story but I do vividly recall him telling me the light was so bright he swore he saw the bone of the forearm he was using to block his eyes at the detonation.

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