France most skeptical about science, vaccines

[+OverSword]

Quote

 

Quelle surprise. France, cradle of the Concorde, the face transplant, and the first isolation of HIV, is more wary of vaccines and the economic value of science than more than 140 other countries, according to a global survey of public attitudes toward science and health released this week. But French scientists say the skepticism is familiar and doesn’t affect their work; some suggest it instead reflects a deep-seated mistrust of institutions. “We think there’s a problem of trust in government, in particular in health authorities,” says Pierre Verger, an epidemiologist who studies vaccine hesitancy at the French biomedical research institute INSERM in Marseille.

When asked whether vaccines are safe, one-third of the 1000 French respondents to the survey disagreed—far more than in other nations. (In the United States, 11% disagreed.) The mistrust didn’t vary much across age, gender, or education, according to the survey

 

Link

[+Desertrat56]

Interesting.  I have that same mistrust of government and health authorities and I do not get vaccinated for flu or any of the new stuff, but I will get a tetanus shot when I need it (like the time I cut myself on a rusty nail).

Edited June 26, 2019 by Desertrat56

[Duke Wellington]

37 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Interesting.  I have that same mistrust of government and health authorities and I do not get vaccinated for flu or any of the new stuff, but I will get a tetanus shot when I need it (like the time I cut myself on a rusty nail).

I`m British not French, but it seems that just like them I dont trust someone just because they are wearing a white coat or have letters after their name.

With myself its because I have been through University twice (I have letters after my name too!) and I realise that the positions of all experts can be questioned and criticised for the whole of science. Every theory and every model in every science is underpinned by assumptions and biases. Every theory and every model in every science has its inconsistencies and flaws.

My favourite un-intellectuals are those who are adamant that how things work can be described using maths and algebra. Try asking them what the area of a circle is and then point out their answer has infinite decimal places. Then point out area comes in discrete units that cannot be divided any further. So if they get an answer with 50 decimal places (as an example) then their answer is incompatible with reality. Obvious areas of circles are worse than that because they have infinite decimal places.

Other popular un-intellectuals with me are those who insist a human being is nothing more than a complicated biological robot. They think if a machine can mimic human behaviour it is conscious. Well sorry, no it isn't, its just a computer executing lines of computer code designed to mimic human behaviour.

My personal advice is decline all drugs, all medicines, all vaccinations, and all operations, unless they are absolutely needed. If you dont you are placing your health in the hands of 21st century science. While things are better than in the Middle Ages I would wait another 5000 years before accepting anything any expert tells you as being the truth.

 

[+OverSword]

28 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

My personal advice is decline all drugs, all medicines, all vaccinations, and all operations, unless they are absolutely needed. If you dont you are placing your health in the hands of 21st century science. While things are better than in the Middle Ages I would wait another 5000 years before accepting anything any expert tells you as being the truth

You say unless absolutely needed,  as if it's a last play of the game hail Mary pass to the end zone when down 14-20 (American football reference) but as far as placing your health in the hands of 21st century science I feel it must be said that I know several people who were diagnosed with different types of deadly cancer that put themselves in the hand of 21st century science who lived through what was a certain death sentence just a decade or two ago and are now perfectly healthy and happier than ever because of it.

[+Desertrat56]

17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You say unless absolutely needed,  as if it's a last play of the game hail Mary pass to the end zone when down 14-20 (American football reference) but as far as placing your health in the hands of 21st century science I feel it must be said that I know several people who were diagnosed with different types of deadly cancer that put themselves in the hand of 21st century science who lived through what was a certain death sentence just a decade or two ago and are now perfectly healthy and happier than ever because of it.

Yeah, and I  know 3 people who were diagnosed with cancer and put their life in the hands of 21st century doctors that still use 20th century treatments and they all died horrible deaths.  Just because it is the 21st century doesn't mean the alopathic doctors are using 21st century medical treatments.  I also know someone who refused the chemo, radiation and other abuse and is living a good life 3 years after her diagnosis.  There is more to it than just the doctor or medicine.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Desertrat56

[+OverSword]

11 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I also know someone who refused the chemo, radiation and other abuse and is living a good life 3 years after her diagnosis

And will probably live another 3 years as the disease takes it's course, the last year spent in unspeakable constant agony.  God bless your friend.

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And will probably live another 3 years as the disease takes it's course, the last year spent in unspeakable constant agony.  God bless your friend.

She didn't refuse the checkups and tests.  She is cancer free.  The doctor did not want to know what she did but said, "keep doing what you are doing."  I also did not say she wasn't doing anything, I said she refused chemo, radiation and other abuse, which is "accepted alopathic therapies".

Edited June 26, 2019 by Desertrat56

[+OverSword]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

She didn't refuse the checkups and tests.  She is cancer free.  The doctor did not want to know what she did but said, "keep doing what you are doing."

Probably a misdiagnosis from the beginning. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Probably a misdiagnosis from the beginning. 

RIght, anything to justify your belief in alopathic medicine.  It's ok.  We all do what we need to be ok in this crazy world.

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

RIght, anything to justify your belief in alopathic medicine.  It's ok.  We all do what we need to be ok in this crazy world.

So what did you friend do to cure cancer?

[Imaginarynumber1]

8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

RIght, anything to justify your belief in alopathic medicine.  It's ok.  We all do what we need to be ok in this crazy world.

You're the dangerous kind of person that end up spreading diseases we had already or almost  eradicated 

[Duke Wellington]

54 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You say unless absolutely needed,  as if it's a last play of the game hail Mary pass to the end zone when down 14-20 (American football reference) but as far as placing your health in the hands of 21st century science I feel it must be said that I know several people who were diagnosed with different types of deadly cancer that put themselves in the hand of 21st century science who lived through what was a certain death sentence just a decade or two ago and are now perfectly healthy and happier than ever because of it.

No one is suggesting it cannot fix illnesses or diseases.

I`m sure you can even find a Witch Doctor capable of curing your headache.

[+Desertrat56]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So what did you friend do to cure cancer?

She changed her diet, started meditating regularly, exercising regularly, quit using the microwave to cook her food and I don't know what else.  There is a book she recommends that helped her.  Radical Remission  I don't remember the author.

[+Desertrat56]

3 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

You're the dangerous kind of person that end up spreading diseases we had already or almost  eradicated 

No, I wash my hands regularly, I stay home when I am sick, I never tell someone not to go to the doctor and I never tell someone not to do what the doctor says.  I do what I think is right for myself and I let others decide for themselves.  It takes common sense and if what the doctor tells you to do makes you less healthy instead of more healthy are you going to continue to use that doctor's advice?  I could accuse you of being fearful of anything that does not come with some authority recommending it.  Are you?  Do you always need some authority to tell you what to do and how to think?

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

She changed her diet, started meditating regularly, exercising regularly, quit using the microwave to cook her food and I don't know what else.  There is a book she recommends that helped her.  Radical Remission  I don't remember the author.

[+Desertrat56]

If that is what it is, at least she did not go through the pain and suffering that chemo and radiation cause.  I actually don't think any doctor can take credit for anyone surviving those treatments.  If they survive and thrive it is because they had the right mental aspect to do it in spite of the doctors trying to kill them.  More modern therapies are out there but insurance companies don't pay for them.  Why is that? 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Desertrat56

[XenoFish]

The placebo effect is the closest thing to magick that I dare believe in. However it is not 100% fail proof. It's strange and odd, plus it's not exactly know how it works. But it's not recommend as a "cure all". 

[+OverSword]

20 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

No one is suggesting it cannot fix illnesses or diseases.

I`m sure you can even find a Witch Doctor capable of curing your headache.

So a witch doctor and a neurosurgeon, pretty much the same thing then eh?

[+Desertrat56]

18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The placebo effect is the closest thing to magick that I dare believe in. However it is not 100% fail proof. It's strange and odd, plus it's not exactly know how it works. But it's not recommend as a "cure all". 

Right.  When it works there are factors that "modern medicine" ignores.  And when it doesn't work the doctors use it as proof that those factors don't need to be included. 

[Imaginarynumber1]

29 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Do you always need some authority to tell you what to do and how to think?

I don't know. Let me ask my mom

[Duke Wellington]

16 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So a witch doctor and a neurosurgeon, pretty much the same thing then eh?

Pretty much, wait until you are and old man/woman and watch what chances between now and then.

[Setton]

34 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, I wash my hands regularly, I stay home when I am sick,

To quote:

"If people were only contagious after the onset of symptoms, at some point, cavemen would have figured out to kill the one with the runny nose."

By refusing vaccinations, you knowingly put those who can't be vaccinated at risk. Proud of yourself? 

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right.  When it works there are factors that "modern medicine" ignores.  And when it doesn't work the doctors use it as proof that those factors don't need to be included. 

No actually. Modern medicine has been investigating the placebo effect for a long time now. If there as any argument for belief, the placebo effect is it. If the actual medicine is effective, believing in the effectiveness of that medicine would only amplify the effectiveness. Depending on the mindset, a cup of coffee will have a low effect, same effect, or greater effect. All because of one's belief in the "Kick" it gives. If there is one thing I'm almost obsessed over is the placebo/nocebo effect. Spontaneous remission does happen, it's just not magic. And it doesn't mean the illness is every gone either. It's a gamble. 

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

To quote:

"If people were only contagious after the onset of symptoms, at some point, cavemen would have figured out to kill the one with the runny nose."

By refusing vaccinations, you knowingly put those who can't be vaccinated at risk. Proud of yourself? 

I didn't say I refuse vaccinations.  I refuse the new ones and the flu shot.

[Setton]

12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I didn't say I refuse vaccinations.  I refuse the new ones and the flu shot.

So you trust the older, less researched vaccinations than the newer ones? 

If you refuse any vaccinations, you put others at risk. Plain and simple.