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Ironside

Advanced Aerial Vehicle Theory

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Ironside
Posted (edited)

Hi Guys, First of all i'm a long time lurker first time poster.
I've recently been sucked backed into thinking about UAP's lately due to the stir in the media and the recent documentary on Bob Lazar by Jeremy Corbell.
I've always taken Bob's story with a grain of salt as i am a skeptical person by nature but now i am leaning on the side of believing most aspects of his story.
Quick recap of his story:

Bob is a Physicist.
in 1989 Bob acquired a contract to work for a private company performing research and development for the US Goverment
He worked at a supposed area near the Nellis AFB in Nevada called S-4
He Was Briefed on Reverse engineering an advanced propulsion system they had their hands on.
At first he believed it was a man made yet saucer shaped fighter jet until he entered the craft
He claims they obtained the craft through an archaeological dig (or several)

We will leave it there for now. take what you want from the story.

Where my theory begins goes way back to the supposed Vimana's of Hindu religious doctrine. They are said to be silent aircraft used by ancient india's wealthy and elite. A lot of lore and scripture says these craft are powered by a kind of mercury furnace/vortex to simulate, not create its own gravity.

Hypothetically lets say archaeologists uncovered a few of these at some point. Realized this was a technology we are unaware of. The US Government classified these finds and captured the craft.

They are interested and try to figure out how it works (Reverse engineering) 

Bob and others are employed with the task to emulate this technology.

Bob goes public and is taken off the project

The US does obtain some knowledge of how these craft operate (Mercury/Other Metal Pressurized in a vortex configuration) in the following years.

The next few years after this marks the start of the Belgian UFO wave comprising of all Delta shaped silent craft (aesthetically similar to the aurora/blackbird stealth planes) before this most sightings were of round ''saucer shaped'' objects

TL:DR: I Believe the US (Even Russia) did obtain an advanced craft through archaeology.
These craft are not ET but a lost human technology that was lost over time 
The US managed to figure out the basics of how these fly and manufactured
Recreate them and test several over years in the late 80's early 90's

I hope this make sense. I have a lot more data on my theory but don't want to drop it all out at once haha
What do you think? I feel like its a much more grounded theory than proposing these are in fact Alien Spacecraft but who knows right?

Thanks,
Ironside.
EDIT: A Few references (I know you guys hate youtube. sorrrrrry)
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-mercury-vortex-engine-work
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/esp_vimanas_9.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana

 

Edited by Ironside
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Kenemet
19 minutes ago, Ironside said:

Bob is a Physicist.

We can stop there.  He has an undergrad degree in electronics, but he's no physicist.  No scientist remembers working with him or encountering him (you couldn't shut up that many people)

How do I know?  Quite simple.  He claimed a number of properties for "Element 115."  IF he HAD worked with it/on it/encountered it, he would have been able to properly describe its properties.  In addition, he says it was formed in the core of stars... but stars don't work that way. (physicist on this site basically rips apart Lazar's pronouncements: https://web.archive.org/web/20040901202032/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm )

Quote

in 1989 Bob acquired a contract to work for a private company performing research and development for the US Goverment
He worked at a supposed area near the Nellis AFB in Nevada called S-4

The story was originally that he worked at Area 51.  

Quote

He Was Briefed on Reverse engineering an advanced propulsion system they had their hands on.
At first he believed it was a man made yet saucer shaped fighter jet until he entered the craft
He claims they obtained the craft through an archaeological dig (or several)

That story is plausible... but only if you've never been on an archaeological dig.  It would take a huge number of people to dig up something that size; a project that couldn't be easily ignored and would take years to complete.  There would be hundreds of papers on it.

Quote

Where my theory begins goes way back to the supposed Vimana's of Hindu religious doctrine. They are said to be silent aircraft used by ancient india's wealthy and elite. A lot of lore and scripture says these craft are powered by a kind of mercury furnace/vortex to simulate, not create its own gravity.
 

"vimana" is another name for "temple roof."   See Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana_(architectural_feature)

The elite did not travel on them; demons used them.  No lore or scripture says they were powered by anything other than the ability of the rider to levitate.  Gods used chariots or giant flying birds.

Quote


Hypothetically lets say archaeologists uncovered a few of these at some point. Realized this was a technology we are unaware of. The US Government classified these finds and captured the craft.

First, archaeologists are only familiar with the technology of the cultures they're studying.  Archaeologists aren't, for instance, familiar with jet plane technology.  They would know that they were digging up something unusual -- and then they'd call in others to look at it.  Now we're talking about hundreds of scholars and engineers looking at these objects, along with papers about the pieces and discussions of what went where.

So you'd have thousands of people looking at them and aware of them.

Quote

They are interested and try to figure out how it works (Reverse engineering) 

Bob and others are employed with the task to emulate this technology.

Bob goes public and is taken off the project

If that had happened, there'd be papers that he could point to and a lot of other scientists in many disciplines that knew about bits and pieces of the technology.   The government would have subcontracted pieces of technology to retrofit and there would be a lot of subsequent advances in our military technology (military technology in particular) taking place very quickly over a very short period of a few years.

...which didn't happen.  

So, no.  If someone had discovered several alien crafts, we'd have flying cars long before now.

 

 

 

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Piney
1 hour ago, Ironside said:

Where my theory begins goes way back to the supposed Vimana's of Hindu religious doctrine. They are said to be silent aircraft used by ancient india's wealthy and elite. A lot of lore and scripture says these craft are powered by a kind of mercury furnace/vortex to simulate, not create its own gravity.

Except there would be pollution residue on BMAC and Andronovo sites. There isn't. 

1 hour ago, Ironside said:

TL:DR: I Believe the US (Even Russia) did obtain an advanced craft through archaeology.

I was on those Russian Andronovo Horizon sites and although they were the top metallurgists in the Bronze Age they didn't having machines let alone flying vehicles. 

 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

So, no.  If someone had discovered several alien crafts, we'd have flying cars long before now.

and you and I would be stupendously wealthy! :yes:

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Piney said:

and you and I would be stupendously wealthy! :yes:

Let me get the mandatory tin foil hat on for a moment, My counter argument to this is that electric cars have been theorized since the conception of the motor car. (My references here will have to be dug up which might take some time) the point is electric cars were suppressed due to the fact that many high profile figures in the early 20th century had huge stakes in the oil extraction and processing industries. electric vehicles = no money in oil except for maybe lamps and lubrication

 

41 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

We can stop there.  He has an undergrad degree in electronics, but he's no physicist.  No scientist remembers working with him or encountering him (you couldn't shut up that many people)

How do I know?  Quite simple.  He claimed a number of properties for "Element 115."  IF he HAD worked with it/on it/encountered it, he would have been able to properly describe its properties.  In addition, he says it was formed in the core of stars... but stars don't work that way. (physicist on this site basically rips apart Lazar's pronouncements: https://web.archive.org/web/20040901202032/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm )

 

Again the doco brings forward many colleagues that he worked with at Los Alamos (not trying to promote the documentary btw) their names escape my mind currently EDIT: Dr Robert Krangle.

 

41 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

 

The story was originally that he worked at Area 51.  

 

 

Everything single piece of media i have seen he has stated it was 12-15 miles south of area 51 at S-4 if you can find me an audio clip or video which contradicts please share :)

Edited by Ironside
spelling sucks

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Piney said:

Except there would be pollution residue on BMAC and Andronovo sites. There isn't. 

I was on those Russian Andronovo Horizon sites and although they were the top metallurgists in the Bronze Age they didn't having machines let alone flying vehicles. 

 

Who said it was that site though?

I'm just speculating but it could have a been a find from a more recent era i.e 1bc - 1000ad roughly

Edited by Ironside

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Piney
1 minute ago, Ironside said:

Let me get the mandatory tin foil hat on for a moment, My counter argument to this is that electric cars have been theorized since the conception of the motor car. (My references here will have to be dug up which might take some time) the point is electric cars were suppressed due to the fact that many high profile figures in the early 20th century had huge stakes in the oil extraction and processing industries. electric vehicles = no money in oi except for maybe lamps and lubrication

The oil industry stomped them along with propane vehicles.

My point is pollution. The earliest signs of pollution is found around copper refining sites. The Jordan River was the worlds first polluted river.

Where there is technology, there is pollution and there would be a lot from a mercury turbine. 

1 minute ago, Ironside said:

Who said it was that site though?

That's where the stories took place. The Proto-Iranians fought the Proto-Indus people. 

Andronovo was a Horizon. Not a "site" It stretched across the steppe from Russia to China all the way up to Siberia. They were the Proto-Iranians. 

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Ironside

@Piney thanks for clearing that up! But hypothetically a self enclosed reactor not operating on combustion would have little to no emissions?

Quote

The oil industry stomped them along with propane vehicles.

Exactly my point

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Ironside

Anyway i was trying to propose an alternative way of looking at anomalous phenomena rather than looking to the stars or into the ''hollow crackpot theory'' simply delve deeper into the past. Thats what i'm trying to make people think about , people assume we were far less intelligent 1000 to 2000 years ago but i really dont believe thats the case :)

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Piney
4 minutes ago, Ironside said:

@Piney thanks for clearing that up! But hypothetically a self enclosed reactor not operating on combustion would have little to no emissions?

Quote

You would still find mercury. Pieces of the machinery. The alloys it was made from.

Al that was found was copper, tin and arsenic. Those stories took place during the Bronze Age. They didn't even have the casting technology to make a turbine. 

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Ironside
53 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

 

How do I know?  Quite simple.  He claimed a number of properties for "Element 115."  IF he HAD worked with it/on it/encountered it, he would have been able to properly describe its properties.  In addition, he says it was formed in the core of stars... but stars don't work that way. (physicist on this site basically rips apart Lazar's pronouncements: https://web.archive.org/web/20040901202032/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm )

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_nucleosynthesis ?

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Piney
4 minutes ago, Ironside said:

Anyway i was trying to propose an alternative way of looking at anomalous phenomena rather than looking to the stars or into the ''hollow crackpot theory'' simply delve deeper into the past. Thats what i'm trying to make people think about , people assume we were far less intelligent 1000 to 2000 years ago but i really dont believe thats the case :)

No, I was a experimental archaeologists and stone tool technology is very complicated. Knapping can't be done by your average smoe. :lol:

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Kenemet
14 minutes ago, Ironside said:

Let me get the mandatory tin foil hat on for a moment, My counter argument to this is that electric cars have been theorized since the conception of the motor car. (

Electric cars were around since the first days of the automobiles.  

Quote

MAgain the doco brings forward many colleagues that he worked with at Los Alamos (not trying to promote the documentary btw) their names escape my mind currently EDIT: Dr Robert Krangle.

Everything single piece of media i have seen he has stated it was 12-15 miles south of area 51 at S-4 if you can find me an audio clip or video which contradicts please share :)

Checked, and you are correct.  He broke the "news" on Area 51 but was at a different facility.  Lazar was listed as a contractor and is in their phone directory.  However... he ain't no physicist.

 

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Ironside
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

You would still find mercury. Pieces of the machinery. The alloys it was made from.

Al that was found was copper, tin and arsenic. Those stories took place during the Bronze Age. They didn't even have the casting technology to make a turbine. 

''Mercury was found in Egyptian tombs that date from 1500 BC.[17]

In China and Tibet, mercury use was thought to prolong life, heal fractures, and maintain generally good health, although it is now known that exposure to mercury vapor leads to serious adverse health effects.[18] The first emperor of China, Qín Shǐ Huáng Dì—allegedly buried in a tomb that contained rivers of flowing mercury on a model of the land he ruled, representative of the rivers of China—was killed by drinking a mercury and powdered jade mixture formulated by Qinalchemists (causing liver failure, mercury poisoning, and brain death) who intended to give him eternal life.[19][20]Khumarawayh ibn Ahmad ibn Tulun, the second Tulunid ruler of Egypt (r. 884–896), known for his extravagance and profligacy, reportedly built a basin filled with mercury, on which he would lie on top of air-filled cushions and be rocked to sleep.[21]

In November 2014 "large quantities" of mercury were discovered in a chamber 60 feet below the 1800-year-old pyramid known as the "Temple of the Feathered Serpent," "the third largest pyramid of Teotihuacan," Mexico along with "jade statues, jaguar remains, a box filled with carved shells and rubber balls."[22]

The ancient Greeks used cinnabar (mercury sulfide) in ointments; the ancient Egyptians and the Romans used it in cosmetics. In Lamanai, once a major city of the Maya civilization, a pool of mercury was found under a marker in a Mesoamerican ballcourt.[23][24] By 500 BC mercury was used to make amalgams (Medieval Latin amalgama, "alloy of mercury") with other metals.[25]

Alchemists thought of mercury as the First Matter from which all metals were formed. They believed that different metals could be produced by varying the quality and quantity of sulfur contained within the mercury. The purest of these was gold, and mercury was called for in attempts at the transmutation of base (or impure) metals into gold, which was the goal of many alchemists.[16]

The mines in Almadén (Spain), Monte Amiata (Italy), and Idrija (now Slovenia) dominated mercury production from the opening of the mine in Almadén 2500 years ago, until new deposits were found at the end of the 19th century.[26]''

 

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Electric cars were around since the first days of the automobiles.  

Checked, and you are correct.  He broke the "news" on Area 51 but was at a different facility.  Lazar was listed as a contractor and is in their phone directory.  However... he ain't no physicist.

 

ill try and find the Dr Robert Krangle stuff. he himself is a physicist and worked with him. or so he says... like i said im not 100% sold on all of this but some of it does ring true to me, Once again sorry about the youtube links :(

 

Edited by Ironside
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Piney
2 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Checked, and you are correct.  He broke the "news" on Area 51 but was at a different facility.  Lazar was listed as a contractor and is in their phone directory.  However... he ain't no physicist.

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Robert_Lazar  A liar to boot.

1 minute ago, Ironside said:

''Mercury was found in Egyptian tombs that date from 1500 BC.[17]

 

For medicine and not on any Iranian sites during the Bronze Age.

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Ironside
2 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

To quote from the article you cite, "Elements above 94 are manmade and are not included" (it's on the caption of the periodic table)

so men can create elements out of the blue yet the very thing that is the reason life exists to create man cannot?

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Piney said:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Robert_Lazar  A liar to boot.

For medicine and not on any Iranian sites during the Bronze Age.

@Piney you are one of my favorite people i have stalked on here... but come on don't cite a website specifically designed to debunk everything.. its like me posting a link from Gaia.

Edited by Ironside
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Piney
1 minute ago, Ironside said:

@Piney you are one of my favorite people i have stalked on here... but come on dont site a website specifically designed to debunk everything.. its like me posting a link from Gaia.

Wow! I don't get too many compliments. Thanks! :lol:

Although I don't agree with everything on that site it's fact accurate about Lazar. He's a lying whistlehead. :yes:

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Ironside
Posted (edited)

There is not one thing in that wiki that makes me thinks he's a liar besides the fact he they say hes a liar..

i forget who said it but ''Absence of evidence is not Evidence of Absence''

You're welcome btw ;) also most elements have several isotopic values that arent stable. Gold has 36 Unstable versions only one is stable.

Edited by Ironside
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Ironside

Everything is relative to our understanding of the universe and physics. Are we really that arrogant to think we know it all at this very young age of scientific advancement and understanding. We dont know everything about the existence of anything and probably never will

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Piney
22 minutes ago, Ironside said:

There is not one thing in that wiki that makes me thinks he's a liar besides the fact he they say hes a liar..

https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/bob-lazar.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar#Legal_problems_in_1990

The whole 115 business. There is several good scientists here who can explain the horse pucky of it all. 

 

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Kenemet
33 minutes ago, Ironside said:

so men can create elements out of the blue yet the very thing that is the reason life exists to create man cannot?

We can create lots of things that aren't found in nature.  High temperature ceramics, for one.

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Piney
Just now, Kenemet said:

We can create lots of things that aren't found in nature.  High temperature ceramics, for one.

Including my Corelle Cornflower pattern. ^_^

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