The Atlantis Research Charter

[Polar]

Dear all,

I decided to post information about the Atlantis Research Charter in order to discuss Plato's Atlantis here at Unexplained Mysteries. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Atlantis Research Charter: A defined position in the colourful world of Atlantis research

 

Thorwald C. Franke, Ulrich Hofmann, Ulf Richter (†), Christian M. Schoppe, Siegfried G. Schoppe Independent Researchers, Germany

 

ABSTRACT

The Atlantis Research Charter defines Atlantis research as a science. It defends Atlantis research against typical misunderstandings and criticism: Against the pseudo-science of non-scientists, against the dogmatism of established scientists and against the abuse of Plato's Atlantis for political and other reasons. Everybody is invited to reconsider his view on Plato's Atlantis and Atlantis research on the basis of this charter and to individually express his own views.

https://www.atlantis-scout.de/Franke_Charter_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf

 

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Also i take the opportunity to post links for the three Atlantis Conferences that took place in 2005, 2008 and 2011:

Series of Greek Atlantis Conferences 

organized by the Greek scientists 
M. Fytikas, A. Kontaratos (†2009), St. Papamarinopoulos 
under the official title 

The Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land
International Conferences

Atlantis Conference 2011

Atlantis Conference 2008

Atlantis Conference 2005

[+DieChecker]

Isn't Atlantis based on a political Dialog by Plato? Isn't it a bit like trying to prove that the adventures of Gilgamesh really happened?

If their goal is to back archaeological research, and not just try to defend the idea of a real Atlantis, then all good on them.

[Hanslune]

4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Isn't Atlantis based on a political Dialog by Plato? Isn't it a bit like trying to prove that the adventures of Gilgamesh really happened?

If their goal is to back archaeological research, and not just try to defend the idea of a real Atlantis, then all good on them.

More like trying to make people believe that Edgar Rice Burrough book's on Barsoom were based on real events.

I wonder how long it will take for 'Polar' to bring up Greenland as an island on wheels...lol

 

[Harte]

2 hours ago, Polar said:

Dear all,

I decided to post information about the Atlantis Research Charter in order to discuss Plato's Atlantis here at Unexplained Mysteries.

What a novel idea.

Harte

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, Polar said:

The Atlantis Research Charter defines Atlantis research as a science.

So what's scientific about it?

[stereologist]

Quote

The Atlantis Research Charter defines Atlantis research as a science. It defends Atlantis research against typical misunderstandings and criticism: Against the pseudo-science of non-scientists, against the dogmatism of established scientists and against the abuse of Plato's Atlantis for political and other reasons. Everybody is invited to reconsider his view on Plato's Atlantis and Atlantis research on the basis of this charter and to individually express his own views.

It claims science by definition. That simply means it is not science as we use the term today.

Let's see where this game can lead.

The <fill-in-a-word> Research Charter defines <fill-in-same-word> research as a science.

• The Santa Claus Research Charter defines Santa Claus research as a science.
• The Marvel Universe Research Charter defines Marvel Universe research as a science.
• The Elvis Research Charter defines Elvis research as a science.
• The Cleavage Research Charter defines Cleavage research as a science.

 

[Doc Socks Junior]

You laugh, @stereologist, but I know multiple people who study cleavage.  And it's very scientific.

[stereologist]

13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

You laugh, @stereologist, but I know multiple people who study cleavage.  And it's very scientific.

Is it possible that my filthy mind was thinking of a non-geological cleavage?  

[+OverSword]

I personally believe it's likely that Atlantis has some basis in fact, but also that it's biggest contribution to the world is a the grandiose mythos that has grown about it.  Atlantis I think was most likely a very wealthy seagoing nation that suffered a catastrophic volcanic/earthquake/tsunami event, and the memory of it has grown larger and grander over time.

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Harte said:

What a novel idea.

Harte

Long since beaten to death and pounded into the earth with such force as to be nearing the core.

[Harte]

40 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I personally believe it's likely that Atlantis has some basis in fact, but also that it's biggest contribution to the world is a the grandiose mythos that has grown about it.  Atlantis I think was most likely a very wealthy seagoing nation that suffered a catastrophic volcanic/earthquake/tsunami event, and the memory of it has grown larger and grander over time.

There is no ancient myth about Atlantis, or anything remotely like it.

Harte

 

[jaylemurph]

Mario, we all know this is a ham-fisted attempt to get back to your fatuous moving Greenland idea. 

And you’ll have noticed, I’m sure, the complete lack of serious conversation about it and the large number of threads closed at your own request or closed when you stamp off angrily like a toddler (but not before advertising said stomp-off for days). 

Save our time and patience and find the number of a local dominatrix. I’ll happily throw in $20 to keep you away from UM and you publicly shaming yourself.

—Jaylemurph 

[+OverSword]

42 minutes ago, Harte said:

There is no ancient myth about Atlantis, or anything remotely like it.

Harte

 

That's one view.  Most myths are based on some element of truth or another. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/architecture/has-the-original-labyrinth-been-found-1803638.html

And considering Plato is from ancient Greece, even if he entirely invented Atlantis from scratch it's ancient now making your statement provably wrong.  Just saying.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I personally believe it's likely that Atlantis has some basis in fact, but also that it's biggest contribution to the world is a the grandiose mythos that has grown about it.  Atlantis I think was most likely a very wealthy seagoing nation that suffered a catastrophic volcanic/earthquake/tsunami event, and the memory of it has grown larger and grander over time.

By highly advanced I dont think the Egyptian priests were suggesting by modern standards. I think they mean like farming, metal smelting, road building, etc.

[Doc Socks Junior]

2 hours ago, stereologist said:

Is it possible that my filthy mind was thinking of a non-geological cleavage?  

Perish the thought!

[Piney]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

I personally believe it's likely that Atlantis has some basis in fact, but also that it's biggest contribution to the world is a the grandiose mythos that has grown about it.  Atlantis I think was most likely a very wealthy seagoing nation that suffered a catastrophic volcanic/earthquake/tsunami event, and the memory of it has grown larger and grander over time.

Nope. Plato pretty much stated he made it all up. 

[Piney]

49 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That's one view.  Most myths are based on some element of truth or another. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/architecture/has-the-original-labyrinth-been-found-1803638.html

And considering Plato is from ancient Greece, even if he entirely invented Atlantis from scratch it's ancient now making your statement provably wrong.  Just saying.

Well, Greek myths were based on fact. In this case the Minoans. But Atlantis wasn't a myth. It was a political commentary. 

 

[+OverSword]

Just now, Piney said:

Well, Greek myths were based on fact. In this case the Minoans. But Atlantis wasn't a myth. It was a political commentary. 

 

Possibly based on a third party anecdote.   

 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Possibly based on a third party anecdote.   

 

Nope.....

Trust a close relative of the original translator.  I had it jammed up my ass since 12. 

[Stiff]

43 minutes ago, Piney said:

Nope.....

Trust a close relative of the original translator.  I had it jammed up my ass since 12. 

That's got to have been painful? 

[atalante]

7 hours ago, Polar said:

Dear all,

I decided to post information about the Atlantis Research Charter in order to discuss Plato's Atlantis here at Unexplained Mysteries. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Atlantis Research Charter: A defined position in the colourful world of Atlantis research

ABSTRACT

The Atlantis Research Charter defines Atlantis research as a science. It defends Atlantis research against typical misunderstandings and criticism: Against the pseudo-science of non-scientists, against the dogmatism of established scientists and against the abuse of Plato's Atlantis for political and other reasons. Everybody is invited to reconsider his view on Plato's Atlantis and Atlantis research on the basis of this charter and to individually express his own views.

https://www.atlantis-scout.de/Franke_Charter_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf

 

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According to Harold Tarrant,  https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/harold-tarrant ,

Plato, Crantor, Plutarch and Longinus all (i.e. 360 BC to 200 AD) probably considered the Atlantis theme to be a "straightforward narrative".   Then, Numenius and Origen began to consider the Atlantis theme in a different way.                                                         For details, see Tarrant's discussion on pages 75 and 80 of https://books.google.com/books?id=B-Prycbk-P4C&q=atlantics#v=snippet&q=crantor&f=false

Edited June 28, 2019 by atalante

[Harte]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

That's one view.  Most myths are based on some element of truth or another. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/architecture/has-the-original-labyrinth-been-found-1803638.html

And considering Plato is from ancient Greece, even if he entirely invented Atlantis from scratch it's ancient now making your statement provably wrong.  Just saying.

There's no Atlantis tradition in ancient Greece. There is, however, a tradition of critiques and monologues about other people's works.

If you want to substitute the word "myth" for "story," then fine. But you're cutting out all the culture involved with something like a myth when you do that.

A myth arises from a culture, not out of thin air.

Harte

[Kenemet]

7 hours ago, Polar said:

Dear all,

I decided to post information about the Atlantis Research Charter in order to discuss Plato's Atlantis here at Unexplained Mysteries. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Atlantis Research Charter: A defined position in the colourful world of Atlantis research

 

Thorwald C. Franke, Ulrich Hofmann, Ulf Richter (†), Christian M. Schoppe, Siegfried G. Schoppe Independent Researchers, Germany

 

ABSTRACT

The Atlantis Research Charter defines Atlantis research as a science. It defends Atlantis research against typical misunderstandings and criticism: Against the pseudo-science of non-scientists, against the dogmatism of established scientists and against the abuse of Plato's Atlantis for political and other reasons. Everybody is invited to reconsider his view on Plato's Atlantis and Atlantis research on the basis of this charter and to individually express his own views.

https://www.atlantis-scout.de/Franke_Charter_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf

 

Well, it's kind of a noble effort but it's clearly written by people who haven't had much of an encounter with science-as-it's-practiced.

Declaring something a science does not, as others point out, make it a science.  They don't help at all with the sentence, "We base our research on scientific methods. This includes – among others – rationality, objectivity, verifiable documentation, clarity, up-to-dateness and expert research as well as working in different disciplines and the ability to address knowledge gaps and open issues as such." because none of the things listed are actual research methods.

They then declare that any straight translation is "pseudo-science." ("Against Pseudo-Science We reject the approach which takes Plato's Atlantis dialogues literally word for word.")

And so forth.  An interesting effort but aimed only at legitimizing whatever they feel is correct and not terribly objective, IMHO.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

That's one view.  Most myths are based on some element of truth or another. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/architecture/has-the-original-labyrinth-been-found-1803638.html

It's hard to reconcile your statement of "myths based on some element of truth or another" when you look deeply into a lot of myths.  Here's a rather lengthy (but missing much material from the Americas and from parts of Africa) collection of myths and legends and the number which are based on some truth is not legion: https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/folktexts.html

[+OverSword]

13 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

and the number which are based on some truth is not legion

That you know of.