Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #101 Share Posted June 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, docyabut2 said: Atlantis was also destroyed by earthquakes, is there any records in that area of earthquakes? 5 minutes ago, Hanslune said: Well no, but there is Vole marinara Just had to...... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted June 30, 2019 #102 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, RoofGardener said: OooooooKAY..... A little earlier on, there was a brief discussion about Altantis being a myth, and myths often having a grain of truth to them, and therefore Atlantis might have a grain of truth. It is important to remember something here. Atlantis is NOT a myth, any more than Sauron, Gandalf and Hobbits where myths. Just as Tolkein invented the world of Middle Earth, so Plato invented Atlantis as a narrative device to illustrate a phillisophical idea. So whenever you create elaborate theories to 'explain' the existence of a real-world Atlantis, recall that you may as well be arguing for the existence of Mordor. Middle Earth is real ! I have seen and read a long and detailed travel log from there. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skulduggery Posted June 30, 2019 #103 Share Posted June 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: Its a beautifull country and due to its history, size and geography there is something for everyone. In three weeks I'll be going to Austria on vacation, previously I have only passed through it. I’d go to Spain for the Gaudi architecture alone. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted June 30, 2019 #104 Share Posted June 30, 2019 23 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Doc Socks Sounds like a very hands-on type of research. jmccr8 You certainly have to get up close and personal. One thing leads to another and then you have to find the bedding, see if the cleavage was the product of spreading or thrusting. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted June 30, 2019 #105 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Recommend removal of the overburden to look for other clefts. If the bedding is columnar, don't go back to that bar. Harte 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalante Posted June 30, 2019 #106 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, docyabut2 said: Atlantis was also destroyed by earthquakes, is there any records in that area of earthquakes? If I recall corectly, Argar "A" society ended at the time of a strong earthquake near Lorca, Spain ca. 1550 BC. Argar society was centered on the Guadalenten river (an Arabic name that means "river of mud or sludge"), which flows into the Mediterranean sea. (The Guadalenten river flows into the Segura river, as shown on the following map.) The Argar "A" society had been a powerful militant society (ca. 2200 BC to 1550 BC), with connections to Minoan Crete. https://minoanatlantis.com/Minoan_Spain.php But the Argar "B" was a weaker society, presumably without support from Crete. Edited June 30, 2019 by atalante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted June 30, 2019 #107 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, atalante said: If I recall corectly, Argar "A" society ended at the time of a strong earthquake near Lorca, Spain ca. 1550 BC. Can you provide a source for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalante Posted June 30, 2019 #108 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said: Can you provide a source for this? quote from: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/gea.21505/abstract An archaeoseismological study of Tira del Lienzo (Totana, Spain) was undertaken. The site belongs to the Argar archaeological group (2200–1550 cal. B.C.; Bronze Age). It is located on the trace of the reverse left-lateral Alhama de Murcia fault (AMF) that was responsible for the 5.1 Mw 2011 Lorca earthquake. The constructive typology of the site consists of mortar-free irregular natural boulders (dry-set masonry) and differs from earlier archaeoseismological sites built on regular masonry constructions in the Betic Cordillera. Four Earthquake Archaeological Effects (EAEs) were identified as follows: (1) an apparent surface rupture (c. 18 cm left-lateral offset), (2) the differential coseismic uplift of several centimeters affecting the main building of the settlement, (3) the widespread development of fractures on the ground surface (ground cracks) in a NE-SW direction consistent with the kinematics of the AMF, and (4) fractures in boulders that constitute the remains of the dry stone walls at the site. Structural analysis of the two fracture types reveals two nearly orthogonal sets (NE-SW and NW-SE), matching the strike-slip kinematics of the AMF in the zone. Archaeoseismic evidence and related radiocarbon dates of the different building phases of the Bronze Age site indicate the probable occurrence of at least one strong seismic event (6.3–6.5 Mw; IX ESI-07) around 1550 cal. B.C., or soon after, triggering the destruction and probably the eventual abandonment of the site. We have identified an ancient lost earthquake from the Bronze Age and report the first archaeoseismological evidence of surface rupture in the Iberian Peninsula. This study also provides the first numerical data in the Totana-Alhama segment of the AMF based on the recorded archaeoseismic displacements. These data allowed us to characterize the related slip rates (0.05 mm/yr) to define the seismic potential of the analyzed fault segment of the AMF, which was poorly defined by previous seismic and geological data. endquote The estimated strength of that 1550 BC earthquake is similar to the 1994 AD Northridge earthquake (6.7 Mw) which hospitalized 1600 people in a densely populated area of the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake Edited June 30, 2019 by atalante 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted June 30, 2019 #109 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Apparently, the destruction of Barad-dur caused significant seismic events all across Mordor. Ergo, Barad-Dur was Atlantis. I mean, it's obvious, innit ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted June 30, 2019 #110 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Hanslune said: What T. invented is far more believable than P.'s A.. At least T created a language, map and back history for most of his created nations. Rupert has joked that Atlantean's actually spoke Esperanto. @Hanslune, I assume you ARE aware that the ONLY source for the entire Atlantis story was a couple of STORIES by Plato ? There is ZERO historical, geological, or ethnological evidence of Atlantis beyond these two stories ? You ARE aware of this ? Edited June 30, 2019 by RoofGardener 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #111 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, RoofGardener said: You ARE aware of this ? He's a international archaeologist so I sure as hell hope so. The Academic Cabal just has inside jokes which your are not privileged to. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #112 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, RoofGardener said: I mean, it's obvious, innit ? Tolkien did base one of his stories on Atlantis but it's been so long I don't remember where. The running joke with British classicalists and Greek scholars around Oxford and Bradford was the American idiots who believed it true. My family, the Jowetts, who are famously tied with it believed it just a allegory but it was still discussed and read a lot in our household. All my mother's idiot Pagan-Druidic idiot friends talked about it but even though she believed all kinds of that batty Gibb woman's Druidic woocrap she never believed in Atlantis. It's why I hate everything about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted June 30, 2019 #113 Share Posted June 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Piney said: Tolkien did base one of his stories on Atlantis but it's been so long I don't remember where. The running joke with British classicalists and Greek scholars around Oxford and Bradford was the American idiots who believed it true. My family, the Jowetts, who are famously tied with it believed it just a allegory but it was still discussed and read a lot in our household. All my mother's idiot Pagan-Druidic idiot friends talked about it but even though she believed all kinds of that batty Gibb woman's Druidic woocrap she never believed in Atlantis. It's why I hate everything about it. The island of Numenor from the Sylmarillion. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #114 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Wistman said: The island of Numenor from the Sylmarillion. Well, it has been 35 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted June 30, 2019 #115 Share Posted June 30, 2019 21 hours ago, RoofGardener said: Just as Tolkein invented the world of Middle Earth, so Plato invented Atlantis as a narrative device to illustrate a phillisophical idea. Maybe not the best analogy. JRR lifted a bunch of his background from Northern European mythology, even some of his character's names. But he did add a huge amount to the groundwork, not taking anything away from his creativity. You can't be a Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford without taking a bit of your work home. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted June 30, 2019 #116 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Maybe not the best analogy. JRR lifted a bunch of his background from Northern European mythology, even some of his character's names. But he did add a huge amount to the groundwork, not taking anything away from his creativity. You can't be a Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford without taking a bit of your work home. Nevertheless, Tateopa, it was a work of fiction. Just like Plato's parable of Atlantis. If you believe in the real existence of Atlantis, then you must believe in Mordor. Or Earthsea. Or Tatooine. Edited June 30, 2019 by RoofGardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #117 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Maybe not the best analogy. JRR lifted a bunch of his background from Northern European mythology, even some of his character's names. But he did add a huge amount to the groundwork, not taking anything away from his creativity. You can't be a Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford without taking a bit of your work home. Like we were discussing.Tolkien lifted the Atlantis (Numenor) concept from Oxford and at the same token my grandfather lifted a lot of Anglo-Saxons theories from T. I wonder if my grandfather's theory that the Saxons were running from Frankish hostilities which I related to @jaylemurph came from Tolkien because they did communicate. Although many of his notes were lost when his library was moved to Philadelphia. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #118 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, RoofGardener said: Just like Plato's parable of Atlantis. Except your preaching to the choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalante Posted June 30, 2019 #119 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) On 6/29/2019 at 8:38 AM, Kenemet said: ...which would have done nothing other than destroy one area of a continent. But tsunamis aren't Intercontinental Guided Ballistic Missiles. Tsunamis don't smack down a town and then suddenly emerge everywhere, carefully sweeping away all traces of that town on other continents and in other countries (while leaving everything else intact.) Tsunamis that hit Tokyo did not also reach across to California and New York and Cincinnati and Denver and simultaneously wipe out everything with "made in Japan" on it and all the Japanese steakhouses in one fell swoop. Kenemet, I agree that the Guadalquivir river basin did not export Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, ca, 2500 BC. A lot of the exported output of this region was mineral (similar to what the Critias dialogue states). Nearby, there is spectacular mineral region, called the Iberian Pyrite Belt, which has been exporting huge amounts of minerals for the last 5000 years. https://www.proexmin.com/trip-reports/iberian-pyrite-belt/ Bell Beaker culture established its headquarters (i.e. the chalcolithic Villa Nova San Pedro culture) on the "northwest side" of the Iberian Pyrite Belt, and exported Bell Beaker copper items to the north, by means of roving peddlers. But during 2800-2200 BC, exports to the "eastern side" of the IBP were dominated by a powerful chalcolithic Los Millares culture. Based on the available archaeological evidence. Los Millares culture disintegrated near the time of the 2100 BC tsunami that caused havoc at Cadiz Bay. Thus it seems likely that Los Millares had been receiving copper and other minerals from the IBP through a sea route to Cadiz Bay. However, it is well-established that beginning 2200 BC, the Argar culture superseded Los Millares. A trade route between Argar and the IBP could have been a predecessor for Rome's famous Via Agusta, which traveled upstream along the Guadalquivir basin, then through a saddle in the mountains, where the route began descending toward the Mediterranean sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Augusta Headwaters of the Guadalquivir river and the Guadalentin river (i.e. initial headquarters of Argar culture) are very close together. In fact, a huge Cazorla natural park, today, contains the headwaters of BOTH the Guadalquivir river and the Segura-Gualentin-rivers. https://www.spanish-web.com/andalucia/cazorla-natural-park/ Edited June 30, 2019 by atalante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted June 30, 2019 #120 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Piney said: Like we were discussing.Tolkien lifted the Atlantis (Numenor) concept from Oxford and at the same token my grandfather lifted a lot of Anglo-Saxons theories from T. I wonder if my grandfather's theory that the Saxons were running from Frankish hostilities which I related to @jaylemurph came from Tolkien because they did communicate. Although many of his notes were lost when his library was moved to Philadelphia. Anything brought into Philadelphia is subject to pilfering being misplaced... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #121 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Jarocal said: Anything brought into Philadelphia is subject to pilfering being misplaced... This was pre-Italian when it was still under Quaker rule. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted June 30, 2019 #122 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Piney said: This was pre-Italian when it was still under Quaker rule. Quakers just cloak their evil agendas like the Academic Cabal. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted June 30, 2019 #123 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, RoofGardener said: @Hanslune, I assume you ARE aware that the ONLY source for the entire Atlantis story was a couple of STORIES by Plato ? There is ZERO historical, geological, or ethnological evidence of Atlantis beyond these two stories ? You ARE aware of this ? I certainly hope so. lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted June 30, 2019 #124 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jarocal said: Quakers just cloak their evil agendas like the Academic Cabal. I'm using a Adena giant's femur for a stool as we speak. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted June 30, 2019 #125 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Piney said: I'm using a Adena giant's femur for a stool as we speak. Bought it from the Smithsonian eh? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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