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darkmoonlady

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

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Herr Falukorv

 a perfect way for the church to gather wealth...
The greatest thief in history is the church.. 
Can anyone imagine just how much wealth and land the church have accumilated/stealed through the ages by visiting old and dying people on their deathbed...
It sickens me and infuriates me....

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Iilaa'mpuul'xem

I loose interest in any post when I see the word, Jesus, God, religion.... blah blah blah. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Herr Falukorv said:

 a perfect way for the church to gather wealth...
The greatest thief in history is the church.. 
Can anyone imagine just how much wealth and land the church have accumilated/stealed through the ages by visiting old and dying people on their deathbed...
It sickens me and infuriates me....

My last stepfather's mother and sister gave thousands to the Catholic Church and his sister was a nasty thief but everything's OK because she bought a place in Heaven. 

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XenoFish
Just now, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

I loose interest in any post when I see the word, Jesus, God, religion.... blah blah blah. 

They do get old and quite repetitive don't they.

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

If Jesus were a comic book character, knowing he was the son of God and immortal, doesn't that make him dying on the cross meaningless? He knew he couldn't really die. Whatever pain he experienced he chose to experience, as a god he is capable of healing himself and just getting off the cross. I'm a skeptical pagan so call me biased but this has bothered me. I don't believe in the Bible and don't see it as real but even as a concept it seems like a problem. His death is always framed by his believers as a sacrifice or that he died for the sins of others but him knowing he could not die or die and come back makes that not a death FOR anything. More like a trick. 

If Jesus was God he would have magicked himself off the cross.

Why would a God need to die for our sins? A God can do anything. He was a man, an extremely intelligent one, but still a man at the end of the day with some important insights into the nature of reality.

And the Romans put him to death.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Iilaa'mpuul'xem
Just now, XenoFish said:

They do get old and quite repetitive don't they.

Hell yes... lets just get real and accept life for what it is.

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XenoFish
Just now, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

Hell yes... lets just get real and accept life for what it is.

You have no idea how many times I've said "Nah" when I wanted to respond to a thread.

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Iilaa'mpuul'xem
Just now, XenoFish said:

You have no idea how many times I've said "Nah" when I wanted to respond to a thread.

Ohhh I can, trust me, I have done the same :tu:

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GoldenWolf
3 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

If Jesus was God he would have magicked himself off the cross.

Why would a God need to die for our sins? A God can do anything. He was a man, an extremely intelligent one, but still a man at the end of the day with some important insights into the nature of reality.

And the Romans put him to death.

All he did was parrot a bunch of stuff from other religions and threw some misdirection in revenge for being "sacrificed".  I don't know see much intelligence in him.

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Herr Falukorv
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

My last stepfather's mother and sister gave thousands to the Catholic Church and his sister was a nasty thief but everything's OK because she bought a place in Heaven. 

I cant find the words.....
Its worse than stealing when you exploit weak  scared and vulnerable people...
Can you imagine a person on his/her deathbed and the anguish he/she must feeel knowing its the final hours of their life,,
The anxiety... what will happen after??? 
When a charlatan offer them salvation and everlasting life in the name of their so called god if they just offer their earhtly belongings to the church,,,
It´s so sick I cant find the words.
Wish I had an emoji that puked instead of (thanks haha confused and sad)
And still to this day people defend it.... 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Herr Falukorv said:

Wish I had an emoji that puked instead of (thanks haha confused and sad)

@Stiff

Whatcha got??? 

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Stiff
11 minutes ago, Piney said:

@Stiff

Whatcha got??? 

puke.gif

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Stiff said:

puke.gif

:lol:

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Stiff
1 minute ago, Piney said:

:lol:

thumb.gif

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)

My position is that Jesus was a super genius on the same level as the likes of Plato and Aristotle.

In fact, if you put aside the conspiracy theories about the last supper painting then the hand signals come from Plato and Aristotle. One believed the world has descended from God (pointing up) and the other that the upper reality cannot perfectly manifest in our reality so we have imperfect representations of perfect forms (pointing down).

It doesnt help that almost all Gnostic books were kept out of the Bible.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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lightly

I'm not a religious scholar, but I see the whole Jesus thing as a mish mash of earlier religious beliefs?   I don't really see where we get the idea that Jesus was God...or a God.  Ya, I've heard of the trinity...but to me Jesus seems to be presented as an example of Us or maybe what we could be.  Only a man could take on the sins of the world and be sacrificed on our behalf?

i mean ya can't go around killing God...then where would we be?!   Kidding.   

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Tatetopa
37 minutes ago, Piney said:

My last stepfather's mother and sister gave thousands to the Catholic Church and his sister was a nasty thief but everything's OK because she bought a place in Heaven. 

The perfect Heaven model for capitalists.  If you are rich enough, you can leverage your cash, buy a bunch of places with deposits or even buy Heaven futures  and sell them all at a tidy profit.  Now that's heaven.

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Orphalesion

I never even got that the bible tried to portray it as a purposeful sacrifice as a kid, even while being raised in a Catholic household and going to religious education. Somehow I had always assumed the crucifixion was not something planned by God but just something bad that happened to Jesus which he then turned around to be something good. 

And honestly I still think the story works much better if you take Jesus as a divinely inspired human/demigod and not an aspect of God, and the crucifixion as Satan's blow against him that then backfired because it caused Jesus to assume his Powered Up Form with the harrowing of hell and resurrection and all that stuff. Much more dramatic and, imho more satisfying story that way. Plus it allows for Jesus to be fallible.
And I don't think that interpretation is blasphemy either, Jesus still has all those divine powers, but refuses to use them to save himself, because he's standing for peace. 

And that whole thing with the Original Sin is pretty problematic by itself. So we had it because Adam bit in an apple and now it's automatically removed because Jesus sacrificed himself? Seems like God should be capable of forgiving people for something their distant ancestor did with outgoing through the whole incarnation-bloody and torturous death plan.

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sci-nerd

Jesus is not a historical person. Everything written about him is written long after his supposed death. No contemporary writers noticed him, if he existed.

What we do know, is that what is written about him has a lot to do with ancient gods and their legends and with astrology, and a few verses from the Jewish Tanakh.
Buddhism even.

It is in fact very unlikely that the person we read about in the gospels ever existed as written.
There might have been a person similar to it, but most probably not anywhere near the actual gospel version.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, darkmoonlady said:

If Jesus were a comic book character, knowing he was the son of God and immortal, doesn't that make him dying on the cross meaningless? He knew he couldn't really die.

This iseems to be  sacrifice by the second part of the definition, sacred rite.

A sacrifice is a loss or something you give up, usually for the sake of a better cause. ... Though no longer used only in a religious context, sacrifice comes from the Latin sacra and facere, meaning "to perform sacred rites."

 

The whole sacred rite thing seems to be based on some pretty primitive sympathetic magic.  Offer something to a god, say the right words, do the proper gestures and the god is bound to fulfill your desire.  Not much different than putting a horse femur in a cave bear's skull forty thousand years before.

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Captain Risky

 

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RabidMongoose
27 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'm not a religious scholar, but I see the whole Jesus thing as a mish mash of earlier religious beliefs?   I don't really see where we get the idea that Jesus was God...or a God.  Ya, I've heard of the trinity...but to me Jesus seems to be presented as an example of Us or maybe what we could be.  Only a man could take on the sins of the world and be sacrificed on our behalf?

i mean ya can't go around killing God...then where would we be?!   Kidding.   

Well yes, there is nothing new or original in the Bible.

And if you even look at people like Moses then you can find the 10 commandments existing far earlier than him. The first civilizations that had writing (Babylon, Sumer, Egypt, etc) all have the 10 commandments. And Noah`s Ark too, although with Sumerians it was an underground vault that they put two of every animal in to protect them from a coming flood. The Bible has a lot of stuff taken from Egyptian Sun God worship in it too.

What we have is what can be figured out by the geniuses (the universe coming from Non-Duality) and then a load of speculation added on top from priesthoods speculating on what is moral. The prophets are the geniuses. They are the people who using carefully thought out philosophical arguments managed to figure out that the universe has come into existence from a creator (the Non-Duality). And many have been able to figure out further stuff about the nature of reality that now exists too.

People wrongly assume people like Bishops are just the blind faithful. A lot of them are highly intelligent people with physics and engineering degrees. If you ever get the opportunity to talk to one then I would advise doing so. What they are like isn't what you expect, and what they come out with will surprise you.

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