If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

[Orphalesion]

Personally i think that moral relativism only goes so far and that an objective good and evil exist and, no a person telling themselves that it's for some nebulous "greater good" or some crap doesn't excuse ****.

But at the same time the very idea of eternal punishment for temporal crimes doesn't make a lick of sense. I mean eternity is literally all time ever, so no matter what a person has done, eternal punishment doesn't make sense in a cosmology where there will be no more tears and all of that stuff. Trillions of years, maybe, the ludicrous amounts of time Buddhist hell mentions to the point that it might as well be eternity, yeah, but infinite time, not so much.
What's the worst amount of suffering if it is literally less than a wink of an eye in your eternal, never ending existence that Christianity assumes?

Plus taking Biblical Law as a measure for sin would be hugely problematic, considering the severe opinions the ancient Hebrews had on several topics and the laughably mild views they had on others (from our cultural POV). That stuff worked for their society, and their mythology, but not all of it works for today.

[pbarosso]

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

If Jesus was God he would have magicked himself off the cross.

Why would a God need to die for our sins? A God can do anything. He was a man, an extremely intelligent one, but still a man at the end of the day with some important insights into the nature of reality.

And the Romans put him to death.

its about relativity

[Will Due]

11 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Sin is an ancient Jewish invention. Anyone who believes it that today, is a pure idiot.

 

You might be right in a religious context but how about addressing sin in terms of an everyday meaning spiritually today?

Have you ever knowingly and deliberately done something wrong? (Which of course, wouldn't be what you personally consider being a part of the doing of God's will.) Have you ever done that?

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Will Due

[pbarosso]

22 minutes ago, Herr Falukorv said:

So if I know its wrong to let a woman in bikini walk by me without raping her Im sinning?
Because where I come from a woman in bikini is free to rape??

this is why we have these debates, you dont even understand what sin is.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

Have you ever knowingly and deliberately done something wrong?

like what?

[+Desertrat56]

9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Same thing. 

But you're not going to be tricked into believing a lie without thouroughly looking for the truth about it all are you?

In other words, you're not somebody who shrinks to the realization that the work involved in getting the job done is personally more demanding than you would like it to be are you?

 

 

I am not sure what you are getting at.  No, I did enough research to know it is a lie. 

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Personally i think that moral relativism only goes so far and that an objective good and evil exist and, no a person telling themselves that it's for some nebulous "greater good" or some crap doesn't excuse ****.

But at the same time the very idea of eternal punishment for temporal crimes doesn't make a lick of sense. I mean eternity is literally all time ever, so no matter what a person has done, eternal punishment doesn't make sense in a cosmology where there will be no more tears and all of that stuff. Trillions of years, maybe, the ludicrous amounts of time Buddhist hell mentions to the point that it might as well be eternity, yeah, but infinite time, not so much.
What's the worst amount of suffering if it is literally less than a wink of an eye in your eternal, never ending existence that Christianity assumes?

Plus taking Biblical Law as a measure for sin would be hugely problematic, considering the severe opinions the ancient Hebrews had on several topics and the laughably mild views they had on others (from our cultural POV). That stuff worked for their society, and their mythology, but not all of it works for today.

Thou shalt not kill...except those people over there. -God-

[zep73]

Just now, Will Due said:

You might be right in a religious context but how about addressing sin in terms of an everyday meaning spiritually?

Have you ever knowingly and deliberately done something wrong? (Which of course, wouldn't be what you personally consider being a part of the doing of God's will.) Have you ever done that?

In my youth I did commit crimes, I knew was a bad idea. But I never hurt anyone.

Sin in this context is doing wrong in the eyes of God. And thinking you need his forgiveness. That is idiotic.

[Orphalesion]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Thou shalt not kill...except those people over there. -God-

Pretty much, eh? Also don't wear mixed fabrics, apparently.

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I am not sure what you are getting at.  No, I did enough research to know it is a lie. 

 

Which lie are you talking about?

 

 

[XenoFish]

@Desertrat56 Here's another angle. What if the kid was never told about the cookie jar. Would they natural be tempted? Doubtful. If they don't know the cookie jar exist, no temptation.

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

Pretty much, eh? Also don't wear mixed fabrics, apparently.

Leviticus was a Phoenician medical guidebook for soldiers on the march.

Wet wool and leather rotted each other. 

Red tides, hence no shellfish.

Desert rabbits will kill you. In all countries including the U.S.

Then there was some more crap........

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Sin in this context is doing wrong in the eyes of God. 

 

What about in your eyes?

What is deliberately and knowingly doing something wrong in your eyes, if it isn't sin in a religious context?

 

 

[Orphalesion]

Just now, Piney said:

Leviticus was a Phoenician medical guidebook for soldiers on the march.

Wet wool and leather rotted each other. 

Red tides, hence no shellfish.

Desert rabbits will kill you. In all countries including the U.S.

Then there was some more crap........

Oh, Phoenician interesting.

And yeah, like I said, all that stuff made sense for that society (more or less) and the way they thought the universe works, but it doesn't work today anymore. 

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Which lie are you talking about?

 

 

You asked the question.  I told you I did  not understand what you meant.  The OP is

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifice

 

I am saying that the idea that Jesus is god AND that Jesus scarificed himself to redeem our sins are both lies.  I know you will want to go on and on about how I am wrong, and it doesn't matter.   I have read enough of your aguements on this subject to know you need to convince someone for some reason.  You can't convince me so don't bother.

 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

Oh, Phoenician interesting.

And yeah, like I said, all that stuff made sense for that society (more or less) and the way they thought the universe works, but it doesn't work today anymore. 

Canaanite in general. The Phoenicians just wrote it down.  

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

@Desertrat56 Here's another angle. What if the kid was never told about the cookie jar. Would they natural be tempted? Doubtful. If they don't know the cookie jar exist, no temptation.

LOL my kids would find the cookie jar even if it was well hidden and no one told them about it.   Once I was house sitting for a friend and my teenage daughter came to visit at the house, which was a new one for this friend.  My daughter had never been in that house before but somehow she knew there was chocolate hidden in the cupboard over the stove behind the spices.  I didn't even know it was there but she went right to it and helped herself. 

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

What about in your eyes?

What is deliberately and knowingly doing something wrong in your eyes, if it isn't sin in a religious context?

Violence and murder, or destroying peoples lives financially or with slander. That is not sin but evil. And it has nothing to do with Elohim or Yeshua.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

You asked the question.  I told you I did  not understand what you meant.  The OP is

 

 

What I mean is that almost everything about God and especially Jesus has been turned on its head. 

But that doesn't mean the truth can't be discovered. 

 

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

LOL my kids would find the cookie jar even if it was well hidden and no one told them about it.   Once I was house sitting for a friend and my teenage daughter came to visit at the house, which was a new one for this friend.  My daughter had never been in that house before but somehow she knew there was chocolate hidden in the cupboard over the stove behind the spices.  I didn't even know it was there but she went right to it and helped herself. 

You ladies and chocolate. I honestly think you've got esp just for that. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

But that doesn't mean the truth can't be discovered. 

Who's truth? 

(this'll be fun to watch)

[Dejarma]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Who's truth? 

(this'll be fun to watch)

yep

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

What I mean is that almost everything about God and especially Jesus has been turned on its head. 

But that doesn't mean the truth can't be discovered. 

 

 

Right.  In what way do you think it has been turned on it's head?  And what truth are you referring to?

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

What I mean is that almost everything about God and especially Jesus has been turned on its head. 

But that doesn't mean the truth can't be discovered. 

 

 

the truth has been discovered= it's all BS!!! but that's 'my' truth.. the fact that there are no facts after 2 thousand years is more than good enough for me. but hey, what do i know

[zep73]

Jesus, this thread is getting long...