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darkmoonlady

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

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Inversion5
11 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'm pretty sure I saw him in El Centro last winter.   Or, it might have been just south of there in Imperial.

:P All because he came back does not mean he lived forever silly :)

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GoldenWolf
3 hours ago, third_eye said:

JC is a all or nothing kinda God... 

~

7C087461ADF0B9E8FFC3D076BA854F8DAF1110E0

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Will Due

 

One time he said:

"He who is not against me, is with me."

 

 

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danydandan
51 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

One time he said:

"He who is not against me, is with me."

 

 

That statement pretty much sums up the whole stupidity of the Bible. 

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Golden Duck
On 07/07/2019 at 10:32 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

And you have risked nothing, so how much is your 'charity' actually worth?

And the 'dying for the sins of the world, never sat well with me, for it makes no sense.

In North Korea, if a person is convicted of a crime and sent to prison, the next two generations of that person, and their family, are also convicted. That means that the grandchild of someone who committed a crime is also held responsible for that crime. Nonsensical, yeah?

But Christians are perfectly ok with accepting the notion of a scapegoat, one man who somehow absorbed the inequity of all men's 'sins', even those that wouldn't be born for centuries. But they will scoff & jeer and other primitive religions that practiced human sacrifice to appease their gods.

The "scapegoat" dates to Abraham.

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Golden Duck
On 08/07/2019 at 2:36 AM, cormac mac airt said:

And therein lies the distinction that I think is being missed. If one risks nothing then their 'sacrifice' is rendered moot.

cormac

In a Hindu home I read a comic that explained, in English, what sacrifice was.

Even though it was obviously aimed at children, I still struggled to understand the concept.

I think that this Hindu comic was saying that if an act included some motive then it wasn't true sacrifice. I was left wondering, in that system, could anything ever be a sacrifice. Lent or Ramadan didn't seem to fit (my interpretation of) the Hindu explanation. 

There really seems to be a motive for everything we do.

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Golden Duck
4 hours ago, odas said:

If Jesus would come back, he would end up again on the cross, for the second coming would be way to early cause there is so much more sin to commit.

 

 

Lord, make me pure;

But not yet!

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danydandan
59 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

In a Hindu home I read a comic that explained, in English, what sacrifice was.

Even though it was obviously aimed at children, I still struggled to understand the concept.

I think that this Hindu comic was saying that if an act included some motive then it wasn't true sacrifice. I was left wondering, in that system, could anything ever be a sacrifice. Lent or Ramadan didn't seem to fit (my interpretation of) the Hindu explanation. 

There really seems to be a motive for everything we do.

Conscious or unconscious motive? 

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

In a Hindu home I read a comic that explained, in English, what sacrifice was.

Even though it was obviously aimed at children, I still struggled to understand the concept.

I think that this Hindu comic was saying that if an act included some motive then it wasn't true sacrifice. I was left wondering, in that system, could anything ever be a sacrifice. Lent or Ramadan didn't seem to fit (my interpretation of) the Hindu explanation. 

There really seems to be a motive for everything we do.

What, exactly, is the Hindu definition of sacrifice? 

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Jodie.Lynne
4 hours ago, lightly said:

I'm pretty sure I saw him in El Centro last winter.   Or, it might have been just south of there in Imperial.

I saw him in a piece of toast I made, but I was really hungry, so I ate it.

 

Is that a sin?

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Golden Duck
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

What, exactly, is the Hindu definition of sacrifice? 

Like I said I read some religious instruction comic book. In it, the student would present some scenario and the pundit would show how he was gaining something in return so it wasn't sacrifice. I find this idea hard ti understand. 

The closest I can find is:

yajna is not just means to attain some desired end, but the 'end itself'

https://zenodo.org/record/47749#.XSUiCVOuadM

I was only married to a Hindu.  I don't profess to understand Hinduidm, nor was I ever expected to.

I couldn't understand the practice of giving God an ultimatum - committing to so many poojas if a desirable outcome occurs. Furthermore, it seems to conflict with what I mentioned earlier.

Maybe, when you sit on the periphery of a culture it's natural for the apparent contradictions to jump out at you. It doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem with those practices more than the is a problem with my understanding of them. 

I wonder if I ever knew sacrifice at all.

Edited by Golden Duck
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Golden Duck
2 hours ago, danydandan said:

Conscious or unconscious motive? 

If you attempt to rationalise something in the cold light of day,  what's the difference? 

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Like I said I read some religious instruction comic book. In it, the student would present some scenario and the pundit would show how he was gaining something in return so it wasn't sacrifice. I find this idea hard ti understand. 

The closest I can find is:

yajna is not just means to attain some desired end, but the 'end itself'

https://zenodo.org/record/47749#.XSUiCVOuadM

I was only married to a Hindu.  I don't profess to understand Hinduidm, nor was I ever expected to.

I couldn't understand the practice of giving God an ultimatum - committing to so many poojas if a desirable outcome occurs. Furthermore, it seems to conflict with what I mentioned earlier.

Maybe, when you sit on the periphery of a culture it's natural for the apparent contradictions to jump out at you. It doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem with those practices more than the is a problem with my understanding of them. 

I wonder if I ever knew sacrifice at all.

Just another religious mystery we'll never understand, or if we ever do, will drive us mad.

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third_eye
  • Sacrifice someone / something / oneself 
  • Sacrifice the past / present / future
  • Sacrifice for someone / something / oneself 
  • Sacrifice for the past / present / future

Give it a good shake and mix well then let it settle in cool and calm environment. 

 

~

 

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DieChecker
3 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I saw him in a piece of toast I made, but I was really hungry, so I ate it.

 

Is that a sin?

I saw one piece of toast with Jesus on it sold on eBay for hundreds of dollars. Perhaps the sin is in not selling it?

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, third_eye said:
  • Sacrifice someone / something / oneself 
  • Sacrifice the past / present / future
  • Sacrifice for someone / something / oneself 
  • Sacrifice for the past / present / future

Give it a good shake and mix well then let it settle in cool and calm environment. 

 

~

 

Take a vow that removes something you enjoy for 112 days. Do it for 'spiritual' reason. Then let me know how the impulse control war goes. Because the conscious and subconscious will battle it out. 

Such things show a firm resolve.

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DieChecker

One other point is that Jesus was fulfilling prophecy when he died. He knew he had to die as part of his work here on Earth. 

https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/prophecies-fulfilled-by-the-crucifixion-of-jesus-christ-faq.htm

More on why Jesus' death was a sacrifice and necessary.

https://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/why-was-jesus-a-sacrifice-faq.htm

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DieChecker
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Take a vow that removes something you enjoy for 112 days. Do it for 'spiritual' reason. Then let me know how the impulse control war goes. Because the conscious and subconscious will battle it out. 

Such things show a firm resolve.

Heck, ask some people to go off video games, or Facebook, or their phone, for 48 hours and they'll FREAK.

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Heck, ask some people to go off video games, or Facebook, or their phone, for 48 hours and they'll FREAK.

I took a 'spiritual vow' before. Depending on the reason, intention, or purpose. It can have either a maddening effect, cultivate determination, or build up an expectation. But if successful in one's resolve, there is a profound feeling of personal power. 

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Jodie.Lynne
17 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I saw one piece of toast with Jesus on it sold on eBay for hundreds of dollars. Perhaps the sin is in not selling it?

But I was H-U-N-G-R-Y! 

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third_eye
14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Take a vow that removes something you enjoy for 112 days. Do it for 'spiritual' reason. Then let me know how the impulse control war goes. Because the conscious and subconscious will battle it out. 

Such things show a firm resolve.

Heck... 

Quote

 

~

:yes:

 

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lightly
14 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I saw him in a piece of toast I made, but I was really hungry, so I ate it.

 

Is that a sin?

Nope, that's a sacrament.   ;

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third_eye

Someone forgot the wine, where's the gawd dammit wine... HIC^

*burp*

Why is Jesus hanging... Hey Jesus, watcha doing hanging up there like that, come on down 'ere

Did you bring any wine? 

~

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The Wistman

I think of the notion of Jesus's self-sacrifice, and the sacrament of the Last Supper, to be afterthoughts, probably cooked up by Paul as a way of keeping the flock together and energized, after the calamity of the crucifixion (if we take it that all these things actually happened.)  By the time he had his 'conversion', the movement was vulnerable and lackluster, it needed a 'hook' like the good old, tried and true 'sacrifice the lamb or chicken' cruelty.  It also helped divert emphasis away from Jesus's challenging prescriptions of forgiving one's enemies, compassion for the disadvantaged, castigating the greedy rich, responsibility for one's personal relationship with God, personal responsibility for one's actions toward others, etc.  Much easier, and cleaner, to practice prayer supplication and weekly sacrifice (of the Mass of course), only not even with messy blood and guts from an innocent creature, but with nice clean bread and wine, called a sacrifice but really a cheap dinner party.  Sacrifice, schmacrifice.

(apologies to my noble Christian friends, but that is how I view this bit of history.)

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

I think of the notion of Jesus's self-sacrifice, and the sacrament of the Last Supper, to be afterthoughts, probably cooked up by Paul as a way of keeping the flock together and energized, after the calamity of the crucifixion (if we take it that all these things actually happened.)  By the time he had his 'conversion', the movement was vulnerable and lackluster, it needed a 'hook' like the good old, tried and true 'sacrifice the lamb or chicken' cruelty.  It also helped divert emphasis away from Jesus's challenging prescriptions of forgiving one's enemies, compassion for the disadvantaged, castigating the greedy rich, responsibility for one's personal relationship with God, personal responsibility for one's actions toward others, etc.  Much easier, and cleaner, to practice prayer supplication and weekly sacrifice (of the Mass of course), only not even with messy blood and guts from an innocent creature, but with nice clean bread and wine, called a sacrifice but really a cheap dinner party.  Sacrifice, schmacrifice.

(apologies to my noble Christian friends, but that is how I view this bit of history.)

Interesting, and in addition to that it takes the guilt and puts it on Judas and off of the Romans, which Paul was still a Roman at heart, you can tell by his diatribes in his letters that he wrote from all those prisons he ended up in.  And what was that about?  He could not walk in to a city without getting thrown in jail.  He must have been quite an annoying reprobate.

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