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darkmoonlady

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

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Habitat
14 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's crazy religious talk though Hab. What you're actually describing there is self delusion. Read it again. 

Nope, not crazy talk at all, it is in fact the only avenue of approach, in the same way that the ability to think rationally is inbuilt, so is the ability to apprehend knowledge in other ways, the insistence that this is not so, is simply a reflection of a one-sidedness in your psyche. Is the appreciation of music or even melodious bird songs, a matter of rational apprehension ? Of course not, to imagine the rational is supreme, is simply a prejudice, and one that is high-maintenance, judging by the post count of the career sceptics, aka, "The Team".

 

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hetrodoxly
5 hours ago, joc said:

Whatever...I don't even care really...He died.  Didn't come back to life.  Isn't coming back to life.  And if I have to believe in voodoo to go to Heaven...which doesn't exist ..then I'd just soon take my chances in Hell...which doesn't exist either.

That's fine, no one's forcing you to believe it.

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Habitat

Joc does give the impression of world-weariness.

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psyche101
35 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Nope, not crazy talk at all,

The stuff about inbuilt receptors is, that's an obvious attempt at rationalising divine contact you don't seem to realise that as a species we naturally look for patterns. This is what you are doing here. It's crazy talk Hab. Throwing darts with a blindfold on. And yet you constantly accuse others of being guessers? Have you never evaluated your own behaviour? 

35 minutes ago, Habitat said:

it is in fact the only avenue of approach, in the same way that the ability to think rationally is inbuilt, so is the ability to apprehend knowledge in other ways, the insistence that this is not so, is simply a reflection of a one-sidedness in your psyche.

What you think is one sidedness is simply rationality where it should be. I'm not trying to shoehorn a godlike figure where it doesn't belong. You're not being open minded, but the very opposite by scrambling to hold onto old ideas that you have embraced. Your approach constantly remind me of fire and brimstone preachers. 

35 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Is the appreciation of music or even melodious bird songs, a matter of rational apprehension ? Of course not, to imagine the rational is supreme, is simply a prejudice,

Yes it is. I can't explain why bird song is, but it is. Music has structure, scales and melody. Have you never heard someone trying to learn an instrument? Those horrid screeches are irrational music. Without scales, without structure. Music without rational structure is just noise. 

35 minutes ago, Habitat said:

and one that is high-maintenance, judging by the post count of the career sceptics, aka, "The Team".

Not as high maintenance as chasing skeptics around chastising them and trying to bend them to your personal conclusions, and especially so when your conclusions are based in what amounts to old wives tales.your post count from hounding skeptics is mounting rapidly Hab. Your tenure here is a fraction of mine, yet your precense seems to almost be 24/7 and you still don't seem to have convinced yourself, let alone drag any converts down with you. Is not your record with other posters waving any red flag's for you? The only posters who seem to see merit in your personal religion are those who have even whacker tales to tell. Why do you think that might be Hab? 

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Habitat
32 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Is not your record with other posters waving any red flag's for you?

No, I've noticed the worse the materialist obsession is, the bigger the likes, there is a lesson to be drawn from that, and it isn't the one you propose, it simply reflects the mutual support group mentality of the "team", who appear to want to project a united front against "woo", and can never explain why it bothers them, it simply doesn't exist, right ? what is there to be frightened of ? Nothing surely, nothing more than fiction that ought to just lumped in with all other fiction. But for some strange reason, they treat is very seriously !

 

32 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Music without rational structure is just noise. 

There is plenty of music with as much "rational structure" as any other, that no-one would want to listen too, simply because it does not resonate with the listener. That is the key point, the religious intuition can identify that which resonates with it. Even you have it, but are trying very hard to suppress it, because of rationalist extremism. Vital, indispensable, but only part of the suite of human sensibilities. (rational thinking, I mean)

Edited by Habitat

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XenoFish

Why do I sense jealousy? 

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Habitat
15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why do I sense jealousy? 

Who ? What ? Where ? 

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XenoFish

I find it funny that you invest so much energy attacking 'the team' instead of creating better arguments. Then you try to find a sliver of a crack that you can pick at. Just to dig into someone. Because of reasons. 

 

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Habitat
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Because of reasons. 

Reasons of jealousy ? I'd have never have guessed you'd think that. What am I jealous about, do you think ? 

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Reasons of jealousy ? I'd have never have guessed you'd think that. What am I jealous about, do you think ? 

That's something you'll have to ask yourself. 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's something you'll have to ask yourself. 

You were the one who came up with the idea, and I was asking why, but I am not a jealous type in any situation. 

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XenoFish
14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You were the one who came up with the idea, and I was asking why, but I am not a jealous type in any situation. 

Then why do you persist in this 'team' nonsense? 

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Will do
9 hours ago, Piney said:

There is no historical documentation of Jesus whatsoever

 

I understand that but my point is that there seems to be a certain amount of acceptance of the validity of the early Christian writings as historical documents by scholars.

For example, @eight bits who is a respected scholar said he is "willing to take Paul at his word". 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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psyche101
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

No, I've noticed the worse the materialist obsession is, the bigger the likes, there is a lesson to be drawn from that, and it isn't the one you propose, it simply reflects the mutual support group mentality of the "team", who appear to want to project a united front against "woo",

Your jealousy is very transparent. Your imaginary team is as real as any of the imaginary gods discussed here. Only yours is like one of the more stupid gods. 

Anyone with half a brain, even that much is probably not required, can quite plainly that see this team are very independent from each other and don't agree on many aspects. Are you capable of recognising the plainly obvious lower common denominator here? It's you. Theists, agnostics, atheist alike all conclude that you default to the whacky. This is without question where you get those doubts you are constantly projecting on others. 

We can all see that you're putting in in overtime to try and pump up your likes. The large counts from tenures exceeding a decade are no indicator here of who is posting on an almost constant basis. 

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

and can never explain why it bothers them,

What total poppycock. 

Many times posters have explained why we see garbage information in a dim light. There's even been a thread on it!! You, and woo in general, undermine science. An enemy of reason. An assault on logic and common sense. Woo in its extreme leads to idiot groups like YECs and anti vaxxers. That affects everyone. Your support of superstition is an enabler for these slow moving minds who try to drag others down with them to feel equal. This forum exists to examine these claims in a critical light, hence the name of said forum. Your badgering others to stop doing so and accept arguments from ignorance (basically God of the gaps) is what is plainly questionable behaviour. Preaching in a sense. What is even stranger is that you seem to think your character is all that is required to dismiss known science's for your knock knock jokes! Can you explain that? 

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

it simply doesn't exist, right ?

No it doesn't.

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

what is there to be frightened of ? Nothing surely, nothing more than fiction that ought to just lumped in with all other fiction. But for some strange reason, they treat is very seriously !

This is a skeptics forum, that's what this place exists for. You know this, we all do. What is very wierd behaviour is chasing critical thinkers around preaching like you do. Again, there's an obvious lower common denominator. Perhaps you can't see it because you're it. 

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

There is plenty of music with as much "rational structure" as any other, that no-one would want to listen too, simply because it does not resonate with the listener.

Preference has nothing to do with it. All music is based on a certain structure. A person learning to play a saxophone hitting all the wrong notes is not making music. You don't seem to understand music theory. I played lead guitar in several bands up and down the East Coast for 15 years, and taught it for 5. What is your experience and what examples can you provide to support what you have stated? 

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

That is the key point, the religious intuition can identify that which resonates with it.

That's personal choice. Some find it's spirituality some organised religion, cults scientology, or just make stuff up like you do. Look at Will. Stating incorrect ideas about evolution, astronomy, physics, genetics, you name it, and then says silly things like, we have to catch up, blindly stating the same mistakes time and again. Yet still blindly running with that invested conclusion regardless of any facts. You do the same thing. Your outright refusal of known physics and lack of argument is more telling than you seem to want to admit. Again, surely this too is contributing to the doubts that you project onto others, and I feel explains your need to focus on skeptics, as you would so charmingly put it 'like a dog to vomit'. 

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

Even you have it, but are trying very hard to suppress it, because of rationalist extremism. Vital, indispensable, but only part of the suite of human sensibilities. (rational thinking, I mean)

There's no such thing as rationalist extremism. That's a made up concoction like 'micro evolution' and 'macro evolution'. Hell, why don't you go the whole hog and put the word 'quantum' in there somewhere. 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Then why do you persist in this 'team' nonsense? 

Well, it does strike me that there is a group of very like-minded people here, and it also strikes me they are not here out of  academic interest, but rather to fortify a particular mindset.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Well, it does strike me that there is a group of very like-minded people here, and it also strikes me they are not here out of  academic interest, but rather to fortify a particular mindset.

And what makes you think that your coven is any different? 

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Habitat

 

6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

We can all see that you're putting in in overtime to try and pump up your likes.

If you can prevail on the mod to get my "like" count down to zero, I won't complain !

7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

This is a skeptics forum,

Stop being such a pedant.

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

And what makes you think that your coven is any different? 

There may be the odd one who think a little like me, but they don't hang around long.

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XenoFish

So what are your actual intentions hab? It seems that you spend the bulk of your time complaining. Is there a great purpose to that? 

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Habitat

Complaining ? I don't think that is quite how I'd see things ! But you know what that poet said.....

O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!

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eight bits
35 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I understand that but my point is that there seems to be a certain amount of acceptance of the validity of the early Christian writings as historical documents by scholars.

For example, @eight bits who is a respected scholar said he is "willing to take Paul at his word".

First, thank you for the kind words; I really do appreciate them.

However, Paul's letters aren't much rebuttal to what @Piney wrote. Paul shows little interest in Jesus' natural life (Jesus' mother was Jewish, he was a servant of some kind to the Jewish people, but then Isaiah wrote about a suffering Jewish servant, too, those and a few verses that maybe refer to earthly events, and maybe not - Paul had, after all, personally toured the heavens and saw many things there, but is reluctant to say which things).

For 1st century documents, it's really the Gospels-Acts, and yes, many scholars see them as "historical" documents, and Luke and John even make a few statements to encourage speculation that they used historical sources (nothing as tasteless as plainly named sources, but sources kinda). Very little of what the Gospels focus on, John the Baptist, quotations of wise sayings, drawing huge crowds, healing, feeding, exorcising, selecting a small group of followers, training those elite disciples to carry on the mission after his death ... none of this is in Paul's letters.

Example: Paul says repeatedly that Jesus ended up dead on a cross or stake (the Greek word could be the same either way, and either is historically possible if Jesus were crucified), but Paul never actually says crucifixion was the cause of his death. Paul even quotes a Torah passage that he said governed Jesus' situation, and that passage describes gibbeting after death when the cause of death is stoning (also a historically possible way for a rabble-rouser to have died in Paul's time). Paul also never says the Romans had any part in Jesus' death, and the authenticity of the one verse where he blames the Jews explicitly is disputed.

Nevertheless, the canonical Gospels are unanimous that Jesus died in a Roman-supervised lawful crucifixion at the urging of Jewish officials. You will have no problem assembling any number of Jesus historians who will say something like "Jesus' crucifixion is one of the most certain facts of ancient history," the other often being his baptism by John, another subject on which Paul is silent.

What's on the page is on the page: Paul simply cannot be cited as a primary source for the historical character of Jesus' natural life and career. He can be "harmonized" with the later Gospels, but he's not on the hook for that.

 

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psyche101
55 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Well, it does strike me that there is a group of very like-minded people here, and it also strikes me they are not here out of  academic interest, but rather to fortify a particular mindset.

And we agree with the science and data gathered by the best of the best who have dedicated entire lifetimes in the pursuit of said knowledge. 

That's the only common ground. Does that put the top scientists on the planet as being on this fantasy you imagine too? 

Do you have any idea how childish and immature you appear right now? 

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

If you can prevail on the mod to get my "like" count down to zero, I won't complain !

You're the one who gives a hoot. And your attendance ratio must be up there in the top 3.

Quote

Stop being such a pedant.

You have got to be joking me right? Can you read the thread titles? 

You're the one who is exhibiting strange behaviour and you seem to be the only one who disagrees.

There's a reason for that. 

At times its almost like you're trying to get a mystic cult of the ground as grand mystic.

 

Edited by psyche101
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third_eye
9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

At times its almost like you're trying to get a mystic cult of the ground as grand mystic.

"TEAM" Magic... 

:yes:

~

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Habitat

Oh, I think the hostile reaction to the notion there is a team here of a very similar mentality, is more than a little telling !

 
 
 
Edited by Habitat

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