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darkmoonlady

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

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Jodie.Lynne
3 minutes ago, and then said:

Freely sharing the truth but demanding nothing from anyone.

Nothing but obedience to the laws of their creed.

Oh, and if this truth is given freely, why don't churches pay any taxes in the US, instead of relying on the dutiful to pay their way?

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6 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Please explain why the "son of God" was tolerant of slavery, to the point of instructing 'slaves obey your Masters, even the cruel ones."

My belief is that He wasn't here to start a slave rebellion or any other kind of violent rebellion against the world order.  He also knew that this life is so fleeting that suffering here isn't the most important thing for a soul that would be around forever.  That's why I view this life as a kind of education and a means to evolve to the next step in our consciousness through Him.  Of course, for those who reject the idea of our spirit continuing past physical death, the ONLY thing that matters is justice in this life and human history proves that it doesn't exist and never has.  

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and then
Just now, Jodie.Lynne said:

Oh, and if this truth is given freely, why don't churches pay any taxes in the US, instead of relying on the dutiful to pay their way?

You'd need to ask Congress members about that.  I believe members of churches SHOULD be all the support they get.  

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darkmoonlady
1 minute ago, and then said:

Excellent question.  We believe that He IS God but that He chose to be born into human form and to live among us.  He then allowed Himself to suffer the humiliation and horrific death by crucifixion to be the blood sacrifice that we needed.  Remember that He was an earthly Jew and followed their customs.  Blood was required for the covering or remission of the penalties of those laws that they broke.  His choice to suffer crucifixion doesn't mean less because He is God, it means MORE.  Even today, there is no execution worse than what He endured.  He did it willingly.  It wasn't His crucifixion that removes the condemnation for the lawbreaking we ALL do.  It was our acceptance of His gift that does that.  It was for people everywhere, of all time.  But only those who believe and claim it are forgiven and guaranteed life after this one.  It doesn't make believers better in any way than other people.  If anything it should just make them more humble.  A really good description of what it is to hear the gospel and believe is that it's like a starving person who finds food, then tells others about it.  Freely sharing the truth but demanding nothing from anyone.

What gift? He bled blood which as someone who cannot die is not really any sacrifice. He felt a bit woozy? He died knowing he would just wake up three days later and ascend fully restored to heaven. So again how exactly is that a sacrifice on his part? A sacrifice of something usually means you lose something important. He obviously didn't need blood, you said he chose to be human. He wasn't. Humans don't die and return 3 days later. Even if he allowed himself to be put through all that he experienced a violent death yes, but so what? It proves what kind of devotion to believers if you knew no matter what was done to you, you would be whole again AND leave all your followers behind. It just sounds like a trickster God. 

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Jodie.Lynne
Just now, and then said:

My belief is that He wasn't here to start a slave rebellion or any other kind of violent rebellion against the world order. 

So the Messiah was OK with people owning people? It seems to me that he could have at least said something like "Hey, my dad overlooked this one, but DON'T OWN PEOPLE, OK? It ain't cool!"  But he never said a word.

 

1 minute ago, and then said:

He also knew that this life is so fleeting that suffering here isn't the most important thing for a soul that would be around forever.

Really? Do you consider your life to be 'fleeting'?  Ever spend a night in hospital, watching over your gravely ill child?  I have, and I will tell you, that night lasted a thousand years.

Life may be 'fleeting and gone in a flash' to some celestial being, but that means damn all to someone who is suffering in this life.

 

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Jodie.Lynne
5 minutes ago, and then said:

You'd need to ask Congress members about that.  I believe members of churches SHOULD be all the support they get.  

Do you have any idea of the value of the properties owned by churches is? The Catholic church, for example, owns prime real estate on Manhattan island that is worth millions! Taxes on those properties alone could house the homeless across the US!

I once knew an old man who owned a parking garage on 56th street in Manhattan. A sweet old man. He was also an ordained Minister, and his 4 story garage was classed as a "church". He didn't collect parking fees, but rather, had a list of suggested "donations" based on the amount of time you were parked there.  On Sundays, he could be found on the buildings roof, preaching to the pigeons.

 

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2 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

It just sounds like a trickster God. 

Do you believe God exists?

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Rlyeh
8 hours ago, and then said:

It does, for all who choose not to believe.  It's just a choice.  We all make it, one way or another.  An interesting point from scripture is that when the last few years of human government on the earth come, (the Tribulation) there will be uncountable numbers who will believe and be willing to die for that belief.  I guess those alive at that time will have a chance to finally see things that were predicted coming true in every detail.  

And willing to kill.

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2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So the Messiah was OK with people owning people? It seems to me that he could have at least said something like "Hey, my dad overlooked this one, but DON'T OWN PEOPLE, OK? It ain't cool!"  But he never said a word.

 

Really? Do you consider your life to be 'fleeting'?  Ever spend a night in hospital, watching over your gravely ill child?  I have, and I will tell you, that night lasted a thousand years.

Life may be 'fleeting and gone in a flash' to some celestial being, but that means damn all to someone who is suffering in this life.

 

I'll ask you the same question - do you believe God exists?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

And willing to kill

When have humans been shy about that?  And you are well versed in scripture.  Where does Christ ask His followers to kill anyone?

Edited by and then
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Rlyeh
5 hours ago, Will Due said:

That there is objective truth about God.

Where can I find this objective truth?

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Rlyeh
3 minutes ago, and then said:

When have humans been shy about that?  And you are well versed in scripture.  Where does Christ ask His followers to kill anyone?

He doesn't.  God on the other hand...

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3 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Nothing but obedience to the laws of their creed.

If they are, they are breaking His word.  You folks can't get past the failings of other people who are as human as you are.  Just because they call themselves by Christ's name, even if they are working toward truly being like Him, they're still human.  Always will be.  Humans will never be perfect but because those who claim Him fail, you seem ready to deny His existence or accept their humanity.  The way I see it, that's a personality flaw for you, not them.  Judge who you wish to judge.  Your choice.

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1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

He doesn't.  God on the other hand...

Do you approach any other topic in your life with as much absolute certitude that you understand completely and that you could not ever be wrong in your analysis?  

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Rlyeh
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, and then said:

Do you approach any other topic in your life with as much absolute certitude that you understand completely and that you could not ever be wrong in your analysis?  

You're free to disprove my statement.  Might be hard as the Bible has Yahweh telling his followers who to kill, but you can try.

Edited by Rlyeh

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1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

You're free to disprove my statement.  Might be hard as the Bible has Yahweh telling his followers who to kill, but you can try.

Which isn't an answer to my question.  What's the problem with it?

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Will Due
1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

Where can I find this objective truth?

 

Everywhere it's honestly looked for.

 

 

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third_eye

I am reminded of the time I saw a duck drowning, it kept going around and around in a tightening circle until it was just flapping on the water, then slowly sinking, wasn't sure if it was sick or injured or was waiting on a quack God to save it... 

~

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danydandan
41 minutes ago, and then said:

Which isn't an answer to my question.  What's the problem with it?

His first response answered your question,

But the old testament has loads of examples of God commanding deaths. 

Samuels 15: something, Numbers 21, 31 or 11 or some odd number.

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danydandan
Just now, third_eye said:

quack God to save it... 

:lol: made my day.

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, and then said:

Which isn't an answer to my question.  What's the problem with it?

If you think I'm wrong then counter my statement.

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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, and then said:

Do you approach any other topic in your life with as much absolute certitude that you understand completely and that you could not ever be wrong in your analysis?  

I approach the flat earth and creationism the same way.  At least Creationists see a problem with rejecting the literal creation story, without original sin, the death of Jesus was completely pointless.

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

without original sin, the death of Jesus was completely pointless.

Another interesting way to put it is, like a logical argument.

If Jesus died for my sins and if I don't sin. Then his death would be pointless if I didn't sin. Thus for his death to be meaningful I must sin and that means I must sin to be a good Christian.

Edited by danydandan
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Rlyeh
Just now, danydandan said:

Another interesting way to put it is, like a logical argument.

If Jesus died for my sins and if I don't sin. Then his death would be pointless if I didn't sin.

The defence is usually; everyone sins because of original sin.  Yet many modern Christians acknowledge the creation story didn't happen.  I don't see how they don't have cognitive dissonance, their beliefs are inconsistent.

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Tatetopa
8 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Gravity is not like a rubber band. It only has a certain reach.

It's like if you put a bowling ball on a very huge trampoline. Only things close to the middle would fall into the notch.

Gravity is a very weak force. The weakest of the four. To think it could reverse the big bang is very unlikely.

Help me out here. Inverse square law, yes?  Gravity is a weak force, but there is a lot of mass.  isn't the amount of mass calculated for steady state, expansion, and contraction.  I think Einstein liked steady state that's why he threw the constant in there. 

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