Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
darkmoonlady

If Jesus was a god his death wasn't a sacrifi

1,676 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Stiff
22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What if it was baby Hitler?

Or Kanye West.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
43 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

There is really not much difference between you and the bad guy commiting a crime.

It would depend, I think, on what you are classifying as a crime.

- eating meat? Some folk think it a heinous act.

- working on the Sabbath?

- lying on your Income Tax? Some people think its a requirement...

- taking another's property without permission?

Or do you honestly believe that there is no difference between you and a guy who robs a convenience store at gunpoint?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
13 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

It would depend, I think, on what you are classifying as a crime.

- eating meat? Some folk think it a heinous act.

- working on the Sabbath?

- lying on your Income Tax? Some people think its a requirement...

- taking another's property without permission?

Or do you honestly believe that there is no difference between you and a guy who robs a convenience store at gunpoint?

I mean I'm just getting pointlessly far into the nitty gritty of philopshy.

I'm saying if you were born with the same parents, in the same place, with the same genetics as the guy robbing a store, I see no reason why you wouldn't be doing the same thing.

When I say "not much difference" I mean in the sense that we have different morals just because of where we were born and the genetics we have. We could all be the criminal if born into the same circumstances, have the same expierences, and with the same genetics.

 

I guess im just musing about the concept of free will and moral relativity. Don't pay me any mind lol

 

 

Edited by spartan max2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I guess im just musing about the concept of free will and moral relativity.

I wasn't aware that morals were a genetic trait.

Please enlighten me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
12 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I wasn't aware that morals were a genetic trait.

Please enlighten me.

Some people seem to possess more impulse control than other. 

Tell a kid they can have 1 cookie now or 2 cookies after dinner. It's a neat experiment.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
25 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I wasn't aware that morals were a genetic trait.

Please enlighten me.

Temperment influences the decisions people make. Alot of your temperment is genetic. 

How easily someone is angered, impulse control, alcoholism, etc.

(Which in science terms can come down to how sensitive your body is to dopamine, how much of a hit you get out of it. The idea is that people who have the genetics that make them get a greater kick out of dopamine are more likely to act on impulses)

On the extreme end there is even correlations between infidelity and genetics, though it's only a correlation lol

Edited by spartan max2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

Self-control can be cultivated and strengthened.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
27 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Temperment influences the decisions people make. Alot of your temperment is genetic. 

How easily someone is angered, impulse control, alcoholism, etc.

(Which in science terms can come down to how sensitive your body is to dopamine, how much of a hit you get out of it. The idea is that people who have the genetics that make them get a greater kick out of dopamine are more likely to act on impulses)

On the extreme end there is even correlations between infidelity and genetics, though it's only a correlation lol

So, in a nutshell, criminals are criminals because their ancestors were criminals? Is that your position, or am I misreading your intent?

And now you've mentioned temperament, and genetic weaknesses (such as susceptibility to alcohol), but I fail to see how moral behavior is genetic.

Edited by Jodie.Lynne
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habitat
2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I suppose thats how we all decide. But my point is it's relative.

We all have different ideas of what right is.

The only difference between you, me, and the person throwing a stone at a public stoning of a women who committed adultery is the circumstances we were raised in. The stone throwers believed they were right and justified because she committed a crime.

We see it as barbaric.

In the future people may see things we see as right as wrong.

 

For me this perspective gives me more humility and compassion. There is really not much difference between you and the bad guy commiting a crime. It just happens 

 

 

 

It is always hard to separate out genetic predispositions from social conditioning, but what can be said is that every "evil" impulse that is openly expressed by criminals, is present in even the most mild-mannered of humans, though normally unexpressed. I don't think too many people walk this Earth, that have not at one time or another, wished harm on another. In many cases, it is impulse control that is the difference between "good" and "bad".

Edited by Habitat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habitat
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Or do you honestly believe that there is no difference between you and a guy who robs a convenience store at gunpoint?

That person is a desperate character who is taking a huge risk for minimal return, so basically, more stupid than "bad", certainly their way of life is "bad", and the person most likely to suffer from it, themselves. Whilst it isn't acceptable, it is better understood in terms of poor life choices, than inherent immorality. Unless you want to park yourself in the space allotted to "good guys", and need these "bad guys" for the purposes of contrast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
justin3651
11 hours ago, lightly said:

I'll decide.   Strangling a baby is wrong.  Any argumement?   ;)

What if the baby was suffering an extremely painful drawn out death where no relief can be given at all? You could make an argument letting it suffer instead of giving it the least painful quickest death that you can is wrong in such a situation.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
7 minutes ago, Habitat said:

and the person most likely to suffer from it, themselves.

Sure, unless he is nervous or strung out and puts a round or three into the clerk....

You want to say that you and he are no different from one another, that's fine.

As for me, yeah, I'm quite comfortable in labeling that person the 'bad guy'

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habitat
3 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Sure, unless he is nervous or strung out and puts a round or three into the clerk....

You want to say that you and he are no different from one another, that's fine.

As for me, yeah, I'm quite comfortable in labeling that person the 'bad guy'

It is serious criminal behaviour, but utter stupidity and a lack of impulse control sums up many who end up in jail. But the same applies to people who become addicted to drugs. Their "badness" is expressed when they seek to finance their habit by illegal means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

It is always hard to separate out genetic predispositions from social conditioning, but what can be said is that every "evil" impulse that is openly expressed by criminals, is present in even the most mild-mannered of humans, though normally unexpressed. I don't think too many people walk this Earth, that have not at one time or another, wished harm on another. In many cases, it is impulse control that is the difference between "good" and "bad".

You are all getting stuck on the genetics lol.

My original statement was that morals are relative because we each individually decide what is right and wrong.

Our idea of what is right and wrong comes from a combination of influences: our parents, our culture, our life expierences, and our genetics. 

Because of this, ideas of right and wrong change over time. It's relative.

The difference between us and a person stoning someone in the past is simply the different influences. Being born in a different time, in a different culture, with different parents and genetics. 

So we have different morals but it's only because of all the happenstance influences we were born into.

Edited by spartan max2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jmccr8
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So, in a nutshell, criminals are criminals because their ancestors were criminals?

Hi Jodie

I have to laugh when people try to use this type of analogy as over the years I have known many criminals that were the sons and daughters of preachers, social workers, and cops.:lol:

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
spulling
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

and our genetics.

Please cite the source that indicates morals are genetic.

 

As far as I am aware, what constitutes moral behavior can vary according to society and time period.

Once, it was A-OK to own slaves, because the societies involved said it was OK. Where does genetics enter into this?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Jodie

I have to laugh when people try to use this type of analogy as over the years I have known many criminals that were the sons and daughters of preachers, social workers, and cops.:lol:

jmccr8

I know. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habitat

Genetics certainly enters into it, some people are reckless and impulsive from an early age, whilst others are timid, even as very young children. More criminals are found in the former group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jmccr8
1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Where does genetics enter into this?

Hi Jodie

Duh, because slaves are genetically inferior.:lol::whistle:

jmccr8

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
6 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Please cite the source that indicates morals are genetic.

 

As far as I am aware, what constitutes moral behavior can vary according to society and time period.

Once, it was A-OK to own slaves, because the societies involved said it was OK. Where does genetics enter into this?

You are making a black and white statement. I did not assert that morals are genetic. 

I'm asserting that genetics are one of a combination of factors that influence someone's morals.

I want to clarify, are you disputing that genetics influence morals all together?

Or are you disputing the black and white claim you made that morals come from genetics?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So, in a nutshell, criminals are criminals because their ancestors were criminals? Is that your position, or am I misreading your intent?

And now you've mentioned temperament, and genetic weaknesses (such as susceptibility to alcohol), but I fail to see how moral behavior is genetic.

No I'm saying genetic predisposition influences how people make decisions , which leads to how they behave, which leads to morals.

As I stated in other post, I said genetics as one of a combination of factors. 

Someone is a criminal because of their upbringing, parents, society,  life expierences , and genetics. 

Edited by spartan max2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
15 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

You are making a black and white statement. I did not assert that morals are genetic. 

I'm asserting that genetics are one of a combination of factors that influence someone's morals.

I want to clarify, are you disputing that genetics influence morals all together?

Or are you disputing the black and white claim you made that morals come from genetics?

 

I am disputing that your assertion regarding morals having a genetic link at all.

Moral codes of behavior are a societal construct, and not a function of biology, or DNA.

You keep asserting that genetics plays a part in morality. It is not outlandish to request that you back up your claim.

The Bolded part: It was YOU who made the claim, not me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jodie.Lynne
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Nice article, but does not address moral behavior per se.

I have a friend who has OCD, along with Intrusive Thought Compulsion about self harm, and a couple of other Mental Health concerns.

Intrusive thoughts are had by everyone, like "what if I drove my car through that shopping plaza", destructive thoughts that most people will shake their head and say "WTF did that come from?" and move on.  In my friends situation, when she gets these thoughts, it is difficult for her to dismiss them, and she struggles with trying not to hurt herself. Her situation though, would be classed as abnormal behavior. So, in her case, you could say that her 'bad' behavior was due to a genetic flaw, i.e.: her mental health issues.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
15 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I am disputing that your assertion regarding morals having a genetic link at all.

Moral codes of behavior are a societal construct, and not a function of biology, or DNA.

You keep asserting that genetics plays a part in morality. It is not outlandish to request that you back up your claim.

The Bolded part: It was YOU who made the claim, not me.

I didn't make the black and white claim that your morals are decided by your genes, I was claiming your morals are influenced by them along with a combination of other factors. But I'll chalk it up to miscommunication on my part.

 

https://www.jwatch.org/na43092/2016/12/19/do-genes-shape-your-morality

First study that popped up lol. I UM on my phone so I hate finding alot of links but if you Google morality and genes many will pop up.

 

Which to me seems reasonable.

Genetics affects how we are physically.

Genetics affect how intelligent we can be (what we do effects it but genetics sets the range, think mentally slow people and Einstein)

Genetics effect our mind and emotions (bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression)

Genetics effect our personality ( introverted/extraverted, etc)

For me its not too far of a leap to think that genetics effect our morals or how we think, our predisposition to how we make choices.

Genetics affect everything else lol

And then of course how we think has an effect on our morals. 

Edited by spartan max2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.