Faith?

[danydandan]

27 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I'm saying there are more meanings to the word than "complete trust", in the general usage of the word. And I have little faith that this thread will end with agreement !

It's not about ending in agreement. 

But do you think there should be another description of what faith means? 

[Will Due]

7 hours ago, danydandan said:

Not the question Will, the question is do you have certainty in your Faith. Yes or No!.

 

Yes 

 

 

[danydandan]

46 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes 

 

 

Complete Certainty?

[Will Due]

Just now, danydandan said:

Complete Certainty?

 

Yes

 

 

[+Sherapy]

7 hours ago, Habitat said:

I'm saying there are more meanings to the word than "complete trust", in the general usage of the word. And I have little faith that this thread will end with agreement !

Habbies, Post your definition of faith. 

I would agree if we were talking truth values, but I not faith it specifically is the avenue to lend certainty to someone or something that has no evidence.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, danydandan said:

Complete Certainty?

Dan, I have a need for clarification, in regards to “faith” the certainty is one’s strength of conviction where as “Faith” is trust denoted based  on evidence?

Am I following? 

[+Sherapy]

9 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Absolutely. It could go that way around also. 

And not just religious faith, but any kind of non-thinking unbacked trust.

I love this Die, even though I would use the word trust as it carries with it the unspoken or explicit understanding that there are facts to support whatever it is I trust in. 

With that been said, I once used the faith construct in the context (of even though I knew it isn’t really true as a way to cope with losing patients as an end of life caregiver, on a recommendation of an intensive care nurse friend that if I spun a tale using faith that the universe ( couldn’t make myself believe god) had drawn me to those that I care for because I am the best fit, it would be easier on me when they die.

I know this isn’t really factual but it didn’t  matter it helped  me in that situation to define embrace the actuality which was accepting that hospice work is short term, the patient would die and it would benefit me to go in with a mindset of acceptance and a willingness to let go, and my contribution to the Die is person would be compassion, making the most of what time they had left in whatever way suited them. 

 

In this sense, faith served as a bridge to help me find a way to cope Ina way that served my well being too, not that is was a fact. 

 

[Habitat]

8 hours ago, danydandan said:

It's not about ending in agreement. 

But do you think there should be another description of what faith means? 

I reject the idea that "faith" is either total, or none. People are spoken of as having undergone a "crisis of faith", often, but not always, in a religious context, that does not sit well with the idea they are either 100% rock solid in their faith, or have no faith whatever, that is what might be the case after their crisis, but in the meantime they are in a state of doubt, their faith is "shaken", they don't have the same conviction as before. In any case, it is just a word, and words morph, vary in meaning from place to place, time to time, and sub-cultural context. Look at what has happened to the word "awesome", if proof of this be required ! In any case, "total trust and confidence" makes no sense, how can totality be assigned, when the proposition is clearly recognized as still uncertain, unknown, and unpredictable. It is nothing but a veneer. The words "trust and confidence" have within them the assumption of doubt, of an assessment that could change with further information. Otherwise, it would be knowledge. People who are uncomfortable with doubt, face a difficult life, the black and white may be more attractive to them, but much grey remains.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Habitat

[+joc]

I voted for 'Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.'.

There is a plethora of other ways to use the word but I think this is mostly thought of as Faith.  

 

[zep73]

In Danish, faith/belief is "tro", and it is a word I rarely use. Perhaps because it means "I think I know".
When I trust (da: tillid) someone, it has nothing to do with faith. It is just a trust that a certain person means me no harm.

For me faith is a word you use figuratively and loosely in the daily language. If you use it any other way, it's religious.
Trust is something you replace with faith, if you talk about people you are very close to.

That makes faith mainly religious in my POV. Option #2.

Edited July 7, 2019 by sci-nerd

[+Pettytalk]

Let us be honest about it. Unless one is the top expert in all fields, and can verify the matter personally, anyone falling short of that will have to rely on faith. Trust is just another way to express faith. Faith in others that we trust and believe to know more than we do.

Anyone that cannot grasp the concept of faith, will just trust themselves to others just as faithful as themselves. Trust me, as I have faith in what I say, and do.

There are too many lost sheep around here.

[+Pettytalk]

10 hours ago, Habitat said:

I reject the idea that "faith" is either total, or none. People are spoken of as having undergone a "crisis of faith", often, but not always, in a religious context, that does not sit well with the idea they are either 100% rock solid in their faith, or have no faith whatever, that is what might be the case after their crisis, but in the meantime they are in a state of doubt, their faith is "shaken", they don't have the same conviction as before. In any case, it is just a word, and words morph, vary in meaning from place to place, time to time, and sub-cultural context. Look at what has happened to the word "awesome", if proof of this be required ! In any case, "total trust and confidence" makes no sense, how can totality be assigned, when the proposition is clearly recognized as still uncertain, unknown, and unpredictable. It is nothing but a veneer. The words "trust and confidence" have within them the assumption of doubt, of an assessment that could change with further information. Otherwise, it would be knowledge. People who are uncomfortable with doubt, face a difficult life, the black and white may be more attractive to them, but much grey remains.

What is knowledge? knowledge if free of doubts, you say?

Once you come to terms with what is knowledge, in essence, when does the essence of knowledge become free of doubt? Only absolute knowledge can be free of doubt. And that can only happen when someone knows all things, in absolute. And that someone can only be an entity that is outside our own reachable absolutes, which are not really absolutes, in absolute. In other words, an absolute someone outside our own existence and our physical universe, and who has no outward or inward limits. Our physical universe, which is infinite only to those of us who exist within its infinity, is one which has clear limit demarcations observable only to that one entity with absolute knowledge, and absolute range. 

Absolute knowledge belongs only to that entity that can know all things, and is outside of all things. In other simpler terms, the buck stops there absolutely, in the absolute of our and all other absolutes possible.

But perhaps we should have more surveys on meanings of words. How about we continue the survey with the terms "knowledge" and "absolute?"

Can we rule out the possibility that all we think we know, see, feel, touch, hear, and taste is truly reality? And within the realm of possibility I include the case where there is only the smallest fraction possible of a doubt we cannot assert, in absolute, that we are sensing and knowing reality.

 

 

[+DieChecker]

On 7/7/2019 at 4:57 AM, XenoFish said:

Faith is an unwavering trust in something/someone. Having that type of trust is just asking to be disappointed.

Unless what is to be disappointed about happens after you die, and thus you can't know if you were wrong. But you would know if you were right.

If you have faith in this life, like the people who only pray, and do not seek doctors/medicine, then they might just as well just pass away. Since the same philosophy should mean God will provide food, money and shelter.

That was never the deal. Jesus told his Apostles to go out and not bring even sandals, but that was for those on mission, not the average believer. 

Having faith in God and your fate is fine, but that doesn't mean doing nothing to improve yourself. God helps those who first seek to help themselves.

[XenoFish]

9 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Unless what is to be disappointed about happens after you die, and thus you can't know if you were wrong. But you would know if you were right.

If you have faith in this life, like the people who only pray, and do not seek doctors/medicine, then they might just as well just pass away. Since the same philosophy should mean God will provide food, money and shelter.

That was never the deal. Jesus told his Apostles to go out and not bring even sandals, but that was for those on mission, not the average believer. 

Having faith in God and your fate is fine, but that doesn't mean doing nothing to improve yourself. God helps those who first seek to help themselves.

I still don't see a point in having faith in God or heaven. 

[+Hammerclaw]

Hmmm, Faith. A sequence of letters representing a spoken sound. A symbol of a word in spoken language. Faith. A word, an abstraction, pregnant with meaning evoking thoughts, memories, connections, a curious sensation of longing. Faith, feelings, desires, emotions wash over me, redolent with unspoken expression. Bright Sunday mornings, wooden pews, organ and piano and voices fuse into a sweet, slightly discordant sound of Faith and Devotion, a sense of community, belonging, comfort and security. Faith, like an agora of the heart, surrounded by plenty and the warmth and love of one's kin. Faith, in the love of one's mother, of one's sister. of one's wife. Shoulder to shoulder with brothers and one's friends, standing together like a rock against all misfortune and the sorrows and vicissitudes of life and death. Faith, the armor of the soul, solid and resolute to withstand the inclement weather of uncertainty, doubt and the myriad fears that lurk within and without. Faith is to stand on the bridge of life and say, none may pass. Faith is to cradle an infant in one's arms, and hear it's first vocalizations in the dewy dawn of it's life. Faith encompasses and yields not to mere transient definition. Faith is to open one's eyes every morning and say: I'm alive. Faith is the light in a lover's eyes, glowing like candles in the warm embrace of night. Faith abides.

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

That was never the deal. Jesus told his Apostles to go out and not bring even sandals, but that was for those on mission, not the average believer. 

So what were the conditions expected of the 'average believer'?

[XenoFish]

27 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Hmmm, Faith. A sequence of letters representing a spoken sound. A symbol of a word in spoken language. Faith. A word, an abstraction, pregnant with meaning evoking thoughts, memories, connections, a curious sensation of longing. Faith, feelings, desires, emotions wash over me, redolent with unspoken expression. Bright Sunday mornings, wooden pews, organ and piano and voices fuse into a sweet, slightly discordant sound of Faith and Devotion, a sense of community, belonging, comfort and security. Faith, like an agora of the heart, surrounded by plenty and the warmth and love of one's kin. Faith, in the love of one's mother, of one's sister. of one's wife. Shoulder to shoulder with brothers and one's friends, standing together like a rock against all misfortune and the sorrows and vicissitudes of life and death. Faith, the armor of the soul, solid and resolute to withstand the inclement weather of uncertainty, doubt and the myriad fears that lurk within and without. Faith is to stand on the bridge of life and say, none may pass. Faith is to cradle an infant in one's arms, and hear it's first vocalizations in the dewy dawn of it's life. Faith encompasses and yields not to mere transient definition. Faith is to open one's eyes every morning and say: I'm alive. Faith is the light in a lover's eyes, glowing like candles in the warm embrace of night. Faith abides.

Faith is just a word. Assign whatever emotional value to it ya want.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Faith is just a word. Assign whatever emotional value to it ya want.

I just did, duh.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

I just did, duh.

Faith is a hope and expectation that always leads to disappointment. There is nothing to put faith in, except false hope. Some like to give it a flowery meaning, I guess it tickles their neither regions to do that. 

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Faith is a hope and expectation that always leads to disappointment. There is nothing to put faith in, except false hope. Some like to give it a flowery meaning, I guess it tickles their neither regions to do that. 

That's your tale--I sit on mine. Right now, I really don't feel like pandering to your manic-depressive cycle, so just b***** off. I could find more cheer at a funeral.

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's your tale--I sit on mine. Right now, I really don't feel like pandering to your manic-depressive cycle, so just b***** off. I could find more cheer at a funeral.

Oh I'm sorry princess. You'll have to excuse me for voicing my own opinion. 

[Habitat]

I thought it was more a depressive continuum ? 

[+Hammerclaw]

49 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Oh I'm sorry princess. You'll have to excuse me for voicing my own opinion. 

Why? You never excuse anyone else. Other people have lives, too, full of their own sadnesses and sorrows. Your negativity isn't welcome, right now, in mine.

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So what were the conditions expected of the 'average believer'?

Live as best you can like Jesus. Knowing all of us fall short.

[Jodie.Lynne]

Just now, DieChecker said:

Live as best you can like Jesus. Knowing all of us fall short.

Ahhh, so an impossible standard to meet, guaranteed to fail then?

And, of course a horrendous punishment for failure, yes?