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danydandan

Faith?

Faith, a question!  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. When you hear, see or read the word faith. What is your first interpretation that pops into your head?

    • Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
    • Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
    • A particular religion.
    • A strongly held belief.
    • An amalgamation of either two or all of the above.


227 posts in this topic

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Mr Walker
16 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'd tend to agree. It doesn't always lead to disappointment.

If we assume an afterlife, but completely different then any ideas we currently have, then I could see everyone having disappointment in the end.

Many times faith keeps people happy till the very end, and then after.

I've never been disappointed after putting my faith in anyone or any body

The act of faith both alters the relationship in positive ways,  and gives me peace of mind 

if my faith is misplaced, the benefits still accrue until it is broken 

Nothing is lost  if my faith is misplaced because, i gave it freely in the first place with no exception of gain or return on that investment. 

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I've never been disappointed after putting my faith in anyone or any body

The act of faith both alters the relationship in positive ways,  and gives me peace of mind 

if my faith is misplaced, the benefits still accrue until it is broken 

Nothing is lost  if my faith is misplaced because, i gave it freely in the first place with no exception of gain or return on that investment. 

You really should just write a book. Get over with, write the book on your life and experiences, make it compelling though and true. 

Edit: I didn't mean that as a joke I was being sincere. Why don't you start a blog, a blog post per chapter then combine them all together as a novel.

Edited by danydandan
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Well yes Thats what i said.  He had trust i would pass the driving test,  for the  very reasons you outline

However he had faith that i would get up on skis the first time i tried it 

It would have been trust if he had evidences to support that trust. 

You earn trust, but faith is given freely. 

It is harder to give/have faith in another, than to trust them,  but more powerful because of that 

As a parent MW, we know that our kid will get up on the skis the first time because most do, it isn’t faith as much as it is that your Dad had accrued some life experiences, that he knew how to get a read on ya. 

I am certain you think getting up on the skis the first time is some kind of Wally athletic prowess, but I am here to tell you it is like riding a bike the first time. We all got on the bike and peddled and stayed on. Getting up on the skis isn’t any tougher. 

Of course, we tell our little cubs we had no doubt they could. Aw shucks, hell we knew we were once kids too. 

Faith isn’t needed you can trust a person implicitly too, you are trying to make a case for thin air. 

And, you know there are some kids who do things without any belief in them at all. I bet J.M. was one such kid. 

Faith is only magical in Wally World.:P

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, danydandan said:

You really should just write a book. Get over with, write the book on your life and experiences, make it compelling though and true. 

Edit: I didn't mean that as a joke I was being sincere. Why don't you start a blog, a blog post per chapter then combine them all together as a novel.

He had a blog, not enough readers.

One would have to be one hell of a writer to pull off a novel about his life. 

 

I am not being mean I just don’t see much to write about.

Maybe he could be a ghost writer, write about someone else’s life, like yours Dan.

 

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danydandan
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

He had a blog, not enough readers.

One would have to one hell of a writer to pull off a novel about his life. 

I am not being mean I just don’t see much to write about.

Maybe he could be a ghost writer, write about someone else’s life, like yours Dan.

 

Nah, nothing interesting has happened to me really. 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Nah, nothing interesting has happened to me really. 

Well, if I had to pick off the shelf I would be picking yours. Your health victory, the miracle of your kids, the way you earned getting your PH.D, growing up in Ireland, your mom...

Your  wit and incredible insight. 

Edited by Sherapy
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danydandan
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Well, if I had to pick off the shelf I would be picking yours. Your health victory, the miracle of your kids, the way you earned getting your PH.D, growing up in Ireland, your mom...

Your  wit and incredible insight. 

Most Irish folk have wit, as for insight.....well I have in very specific topic that no one bloody knows about lol. 

All kids are miracles, loads of people have a PhD, Ireland is/was an easy place to grow up in. 

Again, I haven't spoke to God, nor do I know if he/she/it has spoken to me. Or saved me from something a strong will would overcome. I can't read 5,000,000 letters a second and remember everything I've ever read. I haven't travelled to outer space, met different intelligent species..... etcetera. That's why MrWalker should write a book.

Edited by danydandan
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Most Irish folk have wit, as for insight.....well I have in very specific topic that no one bloody knows about lol. 

All kids are miracles, loads of people have a PhD, Ireland is/was an easy place to grow up in. 

Again, I haven't spoke to God, nor do I know if he/she/it has spoken to me. Or saved me from something a strong will would overcome. I can't read 5,000,000 letters a second and remember everything I've ever read. I haven't travelled to outer space, met different intelligent species..... etcetera. That's why MrWalker should write a book.

News flash Dan dahling, I am thinking neither has Walker. :P

He has enough trouble getting anyone to believe him, and it isn’t for his lack of trying or lack of his efforts at begging for faith, credibility counts, right?

 

Edited by Sherapy
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danydandan
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

News flash Dan dahling, I am thinking neither has Walker. :P

He has enough trouble getting anyone to believe him, and it isn’t for his lack of trying or his efforts at begging for faith, credibility counts, right?

 

I can't believe anything he says anymore, unfortunately.

But his story, fake or real, is still interesting.

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Mr Walker
47 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

As a parent MW, we know that our kid will get up on the skis the first time because most do, it isn’t faith as much as it is that your Dad had accrued some life experiences, that he knew how to get a read on ya. 

I am certain you think getting up on the skis the first time is some kind of Wally athletic prowess, but I am here to tell you it is like riding a bike the first time. We all got on the bike and peddled and stayed on. Getting up on the skis isn’t any tougher. 

Of course, we tell our little cubs we had no doubt they could. Aw shucks, hell we knew we were once kids too. 

Faith isn’t needed you can trust a person implicitly too, you are trying to make a case for thin air. 

And, you know there are some kids who do things without any belief in them at all. I bet J.M. was one such kid. 

Faith is only magical in Wally World.:P

If that is your own experience so be it,  but then i suspect no one showed much faith in you a s a child, and you try your best to avoid using the word.  Maybe you really dont understand the nature of faith in another person 

You CANNOT know  in advance if a  person will succeed at anything. Thus you either have faith or you do not.

So tell me, the first time you went WATER skiing  did you manage to get up and stay up 

Snow skiing is a bit easier, although also more difficult. With water skiing you use the power of the boat and physics, and the hardest part is holding onto the grip while your body is being dragged a t high speed through the water.  The faster you can get up on the skis the easier it becomes  Then you just have to lean back and let physics do the rest   However  in snow skiing  gravity provides momentum  While you can water ski a long distance in a straight line; (at least in Australia) snow ski runs require you to manoeuvre more,  making it more difficult. 

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Sherapy
4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

If that is your own experience so be it,  but then i suspect no one showed much faith in you a s a child, and you try your best to avoid using the word.  Maybe you really dont understand the nature of faith in another person 

You CANNOT know  in advance if a  person will succeed at anything. Thus you either have faith or you do not.

So tell me, the first time you went WATER skiing  did you manage to get up and stay up 

Snow skiing is a bit easier, although also more difficult. With water skiing you use the power of the boat and physics, and the hardest part is holding onto the grip while your body is being dragged a t high speed through the water.  The faster you can get up on the skis the easier it becomes  Then you just have to lean back and let physics do the rest   However  in snow skiing  gravity provides momentum  While you can water ski a long distance in a straight line; (at least in Australia) snow ski runs require you to manoeuvre more,  making it more difficult. 

I understand that you are trying to make a case that faith is superior, you haven’t succeeded in convincing me, yet it is your preference. I accept this works for you.

I am adding that one can do just fine with trust or without faith. 

I know people who are motivated by people not believing in them, they love a challenge. 

 

 

 

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RAyMO
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Ireland is/was an easy place to grow up in

depending on time and place of course - it could be harder in some than others but relative to some other countries - yes I agree with you. 

As the title of this is faith (something that passes me by admittedly) but a comment made me to in passing by a colleague the other day seems relevant to a discussion of faith.

Ireland doesn't get the credit it should for 'protecting / saving' Christianity in the first millennium.

Edited by RAyMO
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Mr Walker
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

I understand that you are trying to make a case that faith is superior, you haven’t succeeded in convincing me, yet it is your preference. I accept this works for you.

I am adding that one can do just fine with trust or without faith. 

I know people who are motivated by people not believing in them, they love a challenge. 

 

 

 

Oh dear I was really not going to say anything about this anymore but you see this statement typifies your error

NO NO NO  it has nothing to do with the "superiority"  of faith. ALL humans have faith (with a small f ) just as we all have fingers (well most of us do) 

faith is an evolved cognitive construct like logical thinking. 

it is not a matter of superiority. Humans use ALL the tools in their cognitive tool box for particular purposes. Faith evolved as a psychological requirement for dealing with a growing awareness of things like the nature of life and death,  empathy, love,   pain and suffering. It also gave us ways to cope with not knowing the future  No you cannot do well without faith  it is just that you deny the nature of your faith and try to use other words for your faith in yourself, in others and in your future. But it is FAITH, that ancient evolved cognitive/psychological construct which gets you through the day  You are a self aware animal, not one acting on instinct, so you NEED faith to compensate for that awareness of life  A monkey doesn't fear that the y might die, so the y dont need a construct to overcome that fear.  It doesn't fear loss or abandonment or grief, so it doesn't need faith that all will be well.  

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

depending on time and place of course - it could be harder in some than others but relative to some other countries - yes I agree with you. 

As the title of this is faith (something that passes me by admittedly) but a comment made to in passing by a colleague the other day

Ireland doesn't get the credit it should for 'protecting / saving' Christianity in the first millennium.

Absolutely. My Dad is from Kerry and my Mom is from Donegal. We had to (well not really had to but it was the fastest route) travel through the North to get to Donegal. So yeah I see that some places are more difficult. Also I'm from Leixlip so I see some of the places that you would not leave if you tried to walk past. You know the places. 

But yeah Ireland kept Christianity alive and the Book of Armagh is a great source. Have you ever listened to this?; 

It's the Irish history podcast. It's brilliant.

 

Edited by danydandan
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RAyMO
13 minutes ago, danydandan said:

It's the Irish history podcast. It's brilliant.

I will listen later - but thanks for the link in advance.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Oh dear I was really not going to say anything about this anymore but you see this statement typifies your error

NO NO NO  it has nothing to do with the "superiority"  of faith. ALL humans have faith (with a small f ) just as we all have fingers (well most of us do) 

faith is an evolved cognitive construct like logical thinking. 

it is not a matter of superiority. Humans use ALL the tools in their cognitive tool box for particular purposes. Faith evolved as a psychological requirement for dealing with a growing awareness of things like the nature of life and death,  empathy, love,   pain and suffering. It also gave us ways to cope with not knowing the future  No you cannot do well without faith  it is just that you deny the nature of your faith and try to use other words for your faith in yourself, in others and in your future. But it is FAITH, that ancient evolved cognitive/psychological construct which gets you through the day  You are a self aware animal, not one acting on instinct, so you NEED faith to compensate for that awareness of life  A monkey doesn't fear that the y might die, so the y dont need a construct to overcome that fear.  It doesn't fear loss or abandonment or grief, so it doesn't need faith that all will be well.  

Faith is a belief and a choice, one you prefer. I have thrived just fine with trust. ;)

On this and how the brain works, the neurological basis for empathy etc.  I will be consulting and concluding on the authority of the Neurologist I work for, not you. 

I say do what works for you, I am going to continue living my awesome life. 

All the best. 

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Habitat
Just now, Sherapy said:

Faith is a belief and a choice. 

On this and how the brain works I will be concluding on the authority of the Neurologist I work for, not you. 

All the best. 

With all respect, a Neurologist would not be qualified to judge that, they are more concerned with the functions of the nervous system, rather than psychological matters.

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danydandan
4 hours ago, Habitat said:

With all respect, a Neurologist would not be qualified to judge that, they are more concerned with the functions of the nervous system, rather than psychological matters.

Pretty sure they are. Psychological matters are result of functions and operations of our brain architecture, how they interact and respond to various things. 

Unless your talking solely for the nervous system, which is just the structure used to transport information to and from our brain.

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)

Do I believe in faith?

When I was a child I used to believe in something although I couldn't say what exactly. But it wasn't Christianity, although I identified with that religion because I`m British. I would say it was agnosticism because I thought the creator behind it all was ultimately knowable.

I have always required evidence, logic, and reasoning before I am willing to believe in something. I never believe in anything based on having faith. I`m also bright with a string of letters after my name (although I haven't gone as far as a research degree yet).

As I got older I realised that most arguments against religion and spirituality were negativity. Negativity coming from people who were atheists because they have issues with spirituality and religion. The kind of people who blind themselves to the peculiar things going on around us that dont add up. Or they arent intelligent enough to notice. Of course I never had faith in their non-religion so I questioned it using my critical thinking faculties.

I realised when I hit university that scientists dont understand anywhere near as much about the nature of mind and reality that those negative to religion and spirituality would have us believe. I always like to pick on those who think mathematics is reality quite a lot:

1. There are no irrational numbers in reality.

2. As there are an infinite number of irrational numbers between any two whole numbers then the relationship between variables in an equation isn`t the same as the relationship which exists between two different aspects of reality.

3. Maths assumes limited interdependence. It puts variables in a box and treats them like they are separate from the rest of the universe. In reality, no single aspect of reality can be isolated in that way so all mathematical equations are incapable of describing with 100% accuracy how something works.

After spending many years thinking about it I arrived at the realisation that maths doesnt describe the nature of things which exist. It describes the nature of non-existent things instead. Abstractions or ideas, which we have convinced ourselves are real but under closer scrutiny we discover they arent.

Take my car for example. After thinking about it I realised one day that despite the fact I could go outside and wash it, despite the fact I could drive somewhere in it, that it wasn't actually real. Thats right, my car is a non-existent object. An abstraction or idea which I convinced myself is real.

That sounds like I have just reached some crazy insane place in my mind so I best explain. My car isn't an object, its a collection of trillions upon trillions of objects called atomic particles. Cars are nothing more than an abstract idea about what a large number of objects (the atomics particles) arranged in a particular way are.

Because cars are abstract ideas then mathematical formula like f=ma appear to describe how they work. However when we realise the car is not an object, when we get down to its atomic particles that actually are the objects and start investigating how they work we find deterministic mechanics no longer describes them!!! lol.

Mathematics, logic systems, and languages, can only make deterministic predictions about the world of abstractions (the world we think we live in). So much for most of physics!!! lmao.

Now onto the odd things happening around us. I am not on drugs, I am free from mental illness, and yet I have often had the `disappearing object phenomenon` happen on me. Even worse I have had the `appearing object phenomenon` occur too right before my very eyes. In my life 3 times I have noticed an object just pop into existence right before my eyes. And the more I look into this stuff the crazier it gets. Have a go at this:

While thats an attention test, next time you go for a walk to the shops actually pay attention to notice if anything changes. It goes on more than what you think. Be conscious of what is around you, then when your attention switches focus and you realise you have switched focus, look back and see if anything changed. One reason why I picked that video is I like to do it with cars to see if after switching my focus back I can catch cars having changed colour.

While nuts it happens!! lol.

We make assumptions about how the world around us works without actually paying attention to whats going on. Anyway, after several decades on this earth I find as time goes on I seem to align more and more with religion. There are way too many odd things going on.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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danydandan
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, RAyMO said:

I will listen later - but thanks for the link in advance.

There are approx 200 episodes. From early first century onwards. Some more detailed than others simply due to sources at hand.

RTE had a great radio documentary on yesterday about John J Hanley or the Baron of Broadway. Never heard of this guy before. He made a number of attempts to buy Northern Ireland so he could present it to the Republic. He offered up to 16 or more million in the early 1940s. He used paint his car in the Tricolour colours and drive up North just to stir the shiit.

Edited by danydandan
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Habitat said:

With all respect, a Neurologist would not be qualified to judge that, they are more concerned with the functions of the nervous system, rather than psychological matters.

The study of the brain and it’s function is Neurology, she is in research also, you do get she is a Doctor with a specialty, right? 

Her focus is spinal cord injury as she is a quadriplegic.

And, this lady is also a Lawyer, very few Doctors also have law degrees.

She went to Harvard University, to go there a person is considered the top 1 percent. 

I am an employed caregiver for two Doctors (at current), the other one is a Critical Care Surgeon, with a specialty in all things Pulmonary, also a graduate of Harvard, he went on scholarships. 

And, I have a couple impressive besties one is like a Dan, difference is he has his PH.D in Chemistry, and I have another one who used to post here who is a Professor in Literature and Cultural Studies. 

I literally can ask anything in these areas and get resources and guidance, and do.

I don’t want to rude to anyone, but on very good authority, Walker is not a credible source. 

And, the folks I take on Authority are working in their respective fields. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
6 hours ago, danydandan said:

Pretty sure they are. Psychological matters are result of functions and operations of our brain architecture, how they interact and respond to various things. 

Unless your talking solely for the nervous system, which is just the structure used to transport information to and from our brain.

You would be correct Dan. 

 
Neuroscience is the scientific study of the nervous system. It is a branch of biology that deals with the anatomy, biochemistry, molecular biology, and physiology of neurons and neural circuits. It also draws upon other fields, with the most obvious being pharmacology, psychology, and medicine.
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Liquid Gardens
5 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Take my car for example. After thinking about it I realised one day that despite the fact I could go outside and wash it, despite the fact I could drive somewhere in it, that it wasn't actually real. Thats right, my car is a non-existent object. An abstraction or idea which I convinced myself is real.

That sounds like I have just reached some crazy insane place in my mind so I best explain. My car isn't an object, its a collection of trillions upon trillions of objects called atomic particles.

If a car is a non-existent object then it seems odd that I and so many other people proclaim to own one. Why wouldn't we have a different non-existent object like non-existent unicorns instead, why does the 'non-existent' manifest as cars so often and consistently in this case?

Are the trillions of atomic particles non-existent objects too?  If not and they do exist, it seems kind of odd that a specific arrangement of existing objects produces a non-existing one.

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RAyMO
4 hours ago, danydandan said:

There are approx 200 episodes. From early first century onwards. Some more detailed than others simply due to sources at hand.

RTE had a great radio documentary on yesterday about John J Hanley or the Baron of Broadway. Never heard of this guy before. He made a number of attempts to buy Northern Ireland so he could present it to the Republic. He offered up to 16 or more million in the early 1940s. He used paint his car in the Tricolour colours and drive up North just to stir the shiit.

Yeah, thanks to your post I found the home site and have been browsing through it. It'll take me a while, but I have already penciled in a few castles for visits.

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Habitat
3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

You would be correct Dan. 

 
Neuroscience is the scientific study of the nervous system. It is a branch of biology that deals with the anatomy, biochemistry, molecular biology, and physiology of neurons and neural circuits. It also draws upon other fields, with the most obvious being pharmacology, psychology, and medicine.

All of the sciences intersect, neurology intersects with psychology and psychiatry to some degree, but so does endocrinology, but you would not consult an endocrinologist about issues of beliefs or faith, this is definitely the province of the psyche, and depth psychology, neurology is more concerned with the role of the brain and nervous system in bodily functions. Dan would not be strictly correct, just technically not entirely incorrect. Some  militant atheists say that religious faith is a psychiatric problem, I'm not aware of any trying to ascribe it to neurological abnormalities.

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