Faith?

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Do you continue to converse with this being? Why not ask how it was done?

Oh sure i NOW know it is an advanced being,  from a race of aliens whose job it is to watch over and sometimes assist the development of humans   This one took a special interest in me and has protected me, guided me, and empowered me for many decades, saving the life of myself and my wife a number of times 

It's sudden appearance   goes to its technological abilty to use transmat for transport and communication.  It seems to be able to materialise and rematerialise and adopt any form, by the use of technology Thus it teleported to me, held a conversation with me, took away my addiction to nicotine using advanced medical technologies, and then dematerialised  and transported itself elsewhere  It is the material aspect of the cosmic consciousness, which spans the galaxy and connects all  self aware beings, past and present, across the galaxy 

it has the abilty to appear in any form  which it needs to, to best effect its purpose, and so it became a transmat beam  which i was familiar with  from star trek. However it has also  since manifested as  human beings, trees, animals,  and energy forms including light, heat, sound, and kinetic,  when it has needed to 

yup, sounds crazy I know, but I have lived with it for four decades now.   

But when i first encountered it in physical form i had no idea what it was Being an atheist i never thought in terms of an angel even thought that  is how many would see it. It always seemed to me to be a powerful alien being. 

ps it is possible that the whole thing is not organic, but the construction of an ancient race of aliens A sort of artefact left behind as teaching and communication tool which self aware consciousnesses can access, learn from, and communicate through  

Edited August 5, 2019 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Habitat said:

Did he ever claim to converse with the nicotine-banishing entity ? 

Well, it spoke to me briefly , explaining what it had done and what would happen next.

I never said a word to it. I was too busy trying not to panic and making observations needed to reality check if this was an external and physical event  or some form of hallucination. i was  also waiting for an alien to step out of the beam and offer me a ride somewhere, but that didnt happen   

I guess over the last 40 years it has spoken less than a  thousand words to me.  This includes direct warnings and advice as well as reassurances tha tit was protecting us and tha t all would be well even inthe greatest danger 

However it also gives me access to its consciousness for learning /teaching, communication and travel purposes, and ive learned a lot that way including linking to minds around the galaxy and watching in on their activities     

[+Sherapy]

On 8/4/2019 at 4:16 AM, Mr Walker said:

I was referencing specific and  quite clear cut personal  attacks.  Not just on my truthfulness but on my sanity and other aspects of my character  

it is not against the rules to challenge a person's   narrative but it certainly is to publicly state as fact that, based on their narrative,  they are crazy or mentally challenged or uneducated etc, ie that only someone crazy uneducated or a compulsive liar  could or would narrate such an event 

So I am speaking of direct and specific personal  attacks Attacks on my narratives can be defended, but statements made as fact about my sanity probity or intelligence are unacceptable and can not really be defended on a public forum   

I dont call others stupid or crazy no matter what they believe. Nor do i call anyone a liar except where they are lying  about me 

Ive broken the habits and discipline of a life time on this forum to become  personal   with one or two peole because that is the onyl language the y seem to understand or because every post is directed at me and not at my points.  It is counter productive in debating terms  but the only defense available to personal  attacks.   Its not an emotive response but a deliberate  strategy 

The very last point you make illustrates the problem  i have explained that there never WERE any truck headlights nor any other form of explicable light

I have explained that i used that excuse to explain to my parents what caused the intense bright light which lit up our entire front yard The point here is that light was real and seen by my parents from inside the house.  it's source was a column of light 2 metres tall and  over a metre in diameter which materialised about a metre from me, lasted a minute or two,and then dematerialised.

it had enough candle power to light up hundreds of square metres as bright as day and was  so bright you couldn't look directly at it  

So it was real phenomenon, not something generated inside my mind   

it was accompanied by a voice from inside the light and the removal of a long term addiction to nicotine( immediately and permanently )  so that, from  smoking over a packet a day for several years, i never smoked agani The voice told me it had done this and tha  ti would never have a craving for cigarettes again   Both  proved to be true over time 

Maybe you simply find this unbelievable but it is no excuse for misconstruing and mis constructing my story  to make it seem as if i saw truck headlights and conflated a story around  them . 

There was no truck   (nor any other visible source for the light)  It was a bit like a very bright hologram, although in 1972 holograms did not exist in common use in Australia)

I  believe that there was a light, I believe your parents saw the light. That the light was accompanied by a voice that also removed your nicotine addiction is clearly a spin that has been generated in your own mind. 

We call this ones private mental state, you are using language and meaning making to convince yourself of an actuality that doesn’t exist. 

And you have not provided any facts to substantiate your claims. 

I am not going to label you a liar, but I will say you are in error on the majority of your posts, and you refuse to stand corrected no matter how much it is brought to your attention. 

I do fact check everything you say and I am astonished how consistently you are in error.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I  believe that there was a light, I believe your parents saw the light. That the light was accompanied by a voice that also removed your nicotine addiction is clearly a spin that has been generated in your own mind. 

We call this ones private mental state, you are using language and meaning making to convince yourself of an actuality that doesn’t exist. 

And you have not provided any facts to substantiate your claims. 

I am not going to label you a liar, but I will say you are in error on the majority of your posts, and you refuse to stand corrected no matter how much it is brought to your attention. 

I do fact check everything you say and I am astonished how consistently you are in error.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for clarifying your position. 

Of course you believe the voice was generated in my own mind, and  that somehow this allowed me to be immediately  freed from both the physical and psychological cravings and withdrawal effects  and never smoke again, just as the voice had told me would happen 

You HAVE to believe that because any other possibility would threaten the secure world of material realism you have constructed as a defence against the world around you 

I can empathise with your scepticism as I would have been the same before such things happened to me 

but the rest of your post  is an error, and in some way you  think i am trying to impose my "delusion"  onto others.

NO i am not imposing, simply telling. Just like you, others can believe as the y need to, but for some with similar experiences it might be interesting and even comforting 

You do the same thing; trying to get others to think as you do, that such experiences occur within the mind not the external world 

In any post PROVE I am in error  On very odd occasions i have admitted to making a mistake, but generally my facts are correct and my opinions validated by academic opinions, even where there is ongoing academic debate Ie my opinion is as good as any other, and as logical and arguable.  

It is easy to say i am in error but you have yet to prove me to be so on any topic  (which is why i dont admit to being proven wrong.  You simply haven't done so)  You almost never argue facts or even opinions with me, preferring to make attempts to discredit my views, sources or authority on any matter. 

[+Sherapy]

28 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Thank you for clarifying your position. 

Of course you believe the voice was generated in my own mind, and  that somehow this allowed me to be immediately  freed from both the physical and psychological cravings and withdrawal effects  and never smoke again, just as the voice had told me would happen 

You HAVE to believe that because any other possibility would threaten the secure world of material realism you have constructed as a defence against the world around you 

I can empathise with your scepticism as I would have been the same before such things happened to me 

but the rest of your post  is an error, and in some way you  think i am trying to impose my "delusion"  onto others.

NO i am not imposing, simply telling. Just like you, others can believe as the y need to, but for some with similar experiences it might be interesting and even comforting 

You do the same thing; trying to get others to think as you do, that such experiences occur within the mind not the external world 

In any post PROVE I am in error  On very odd occasions i have admitted to making a mistake, but generally my facts are correct and my opinions validated by academic opinions, even where there is ongoing academic debate Ie my opinion is as good as any other, and as logical and arguable.  

It is easy to say i am in error but you have yet to prove me to be so on any topic  (which is why i dont admit to being proven wrong.  You simply haven't done so)  You almost never argue facts or even opinions with me, preferring to make attempts to discredit my views, sources or authority on any matter. 

Wally, it isn’t unusual to quit smoking one day after years of smoking. 

I was a smoker years ago for years and literally woke up and quit, it wasn’t hard at all, I didn’t suffer any withdrawals, not everyone does.

My hubby quit too shortly after that, he didn’t have issues either. Just an FYI, perhaps you are gifted with a robust will.

I specifically didn't use loaded language to offer my conclusion, I said you are using language and meaning making that can only be coming from your private inner world as you haven’t provided any facts to establish that this experience has an external reality. I can accept you saw a light at this point. It is not personal though. 

Let’s be fair, If you have no way to support this with facts then it is appropriate for me to conclude this is a mental representation that you assigned the meaning and significance too. 

It doesn’t mean you are nuts, or crazy, or deluded or a liar, just that to me you want to believe this and do, that the light beam helped you quit smoking and as a bonus provides friendship for you too. 

 

I will agree our approach to argumentation is worlds apart.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sherapy

[eight bits]

Seriously, Mr W: do you read your own posts?

I said that you had described the phenomenon as truck headlights. To which you replied (emphasis added):

On 8/4/2019 at 10:13 PM, Mr Walker said:

No I never did.

That is a lie  (or genuine error) begun (and propagated)  by sherapy who totally misread one of my posts to fit her own pattern of disbelief 

I said that i went in side, and when my parents  asked what has caused the bright light which lit up the whole front yard i TOLD them it was a truck turning into our driveway to reverse up the road 

You really don't see that you did in fact describe the phenomenon as truck headlights? That the two bolded statements are mutually inconsistent?

Sherapy didn't begin or propagate this, you did. She read your post just fine, "to fit her own pattern" of English-language literacy.

Edited August 6, 2019 by eight bits

[+Sherapy]

14 hours ago, eight bits said:

Seriously, Mr W: do you read your own posts?

I said that you had described the phenomenon as truck headlights. To which you replied (emphasis added):

You really don't see that you did in fact describe the phenomenon as truck headlights? That the two bolded statements are mutually inconsistent?

Sherapy didn't begin or propagate this, you did. She read your post just fine, "to fit her own pattern" of English-language literacy.

Right! 

That is how I came to know it was a truck too, he told me he told his parents the lights were from a truck backing out of the driveway. 

I wonder if this will qualify as an error that he then publicly admits to?

 

[XenoFish]

23 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Wally, it isn’t unusual to quit smoking one day after years of smoking. 

I was a smoker years ago for years and literally woke up and quit, it wasn’t hard at all, I didn’t suffer any withdrawals, not everyone does.

I think this might have something to do with a subconscious conviction. Some times you just stop doing things. I don't think its much of a conscious choice. You just do it.

[+Sherapy]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think this might have something to do with a subconscious conviction. Some times you just stop doing things. I don't think its much of a conscious choice. You just do it.

Indeed how we change, 

15% percent a plan,

30% influences relationships etc.

25% placebo

and

30% extraneous circumstances. 

It could be any of those. 

[Mr Walker]

18 hours ago, eight bits said:

Seriously, Mr W: do you read your own posts?

I said that you had described the phenomenon as truck headlights. To which you replied (emphasis added):

You really don't see that you did in fact describe the phenomenon as truck headlights? That the two bolded statements are mutually inconsistent?

Sherapy didn't begin or propagate this, you did. She read your post just fine, "to fit her own pattern" of English-language literacy.

Too weird for me

if you cant see the difference between me.

Ttelling my parents that the light was caused by truck headlights and

me knowing and describing on UM what the light was actually caused by,

then i have no hope  of effective communication 

The light was real.

It was NOT caused by headlights. 

I have never said on this forum that it was caused by headlights. Indeed i explained that it was NOT 

I told my parents it was, so the y would not worry that i was on drugs or booze

There is no inconsistency 

One thing i saw and described to you, and all other readers on Um.

The other  never happened and i made it up to keep my parents from being concerned 

The point was that they SAW the light, so it was real .

i was asked, many years ago on UM,  how i knew it was not just an hallucination, and THEN i explained how my parents had seen it an how i had told THEM it was a truck.

If you don't get this i can explain no better 

if you don't get this then i don't get your point  

I've never said on UM that it WAS headlights, only that i told my parents that it was. 

Sherapy read it as if i had seen headlights, and  then i had conflated my story around them.  She began posting that i had seen truck headlights and based my experience around that .

That is the way she always reacts ie  trying to impose as reality  what she believes is possible, on what actually happened, because that is too impossible for her to believe 

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I think this might have something to do with a subconscious conviction. Some times you just stop doing things. I don't think its much of a conscious choice. You just do it.

And when  a person stops smoking over a packet a day, for over 5 years, is it normal  for them to have no symptoms of withdrawal, and no cravings or desire  to smoke, ever again? 

I agree the human mind could do this, with will and discipline, because it is very powerful.

BUT the voice and the light occurred before this happened , told me it would happen, and then  this entity continued  (in a variety of forms) to be with me, to watch over me, educate me, empower me, and protect me, for the rest of my life  One has to take context into account as well 

[Habitat]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed how we change, 

15% percent a plan,

30% influences relationships etc.

25% placebo

and

30% extraneous circumstances. 

It could be any of those. 

The key to life is 85% proficiency in mathematics, and 25% luck.

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Right! 

That is how I came to know it was a truck too, he told me he told his parents the lights were from a truck backing out of the driveway. 

I wonder if this will qualify as an error that he then publicly admits to?

 

You see, you have just explained your misunderstanding, in your own words.

I wrote that i had told my parents it was a truck because they had seen a very bright light  (I outlined this when challenged on how i knew the light was not just in my mind)

I also posted that it was NOT a truck and had no apparent source.

YOU then assumed that the light was caused by a truck and i had conflated the rest 

You began posting that i had seen a truck, when I had posted that i had never done so ,and had simply used that to put my parents' minds at ease  

Indeed i told you the bolded bit, but i also explained, in the same post, and many others, that this was an invention to ease my parents' minds 

You just found it easy to believe i had seen a truck headlights and impossible to believe it was a god/angel /alien entity  

Understandable, but NOT what i posted 

You do get that, even if i had just told you that i told my parents it was a truck, without any further explanation why i did so,   this is NOT telling you that I saw a truck headlights. It is an account of how i explained the light to others who saw it 

[Mr Walker]

18 hours ago, eight bits said:

Seriously, Mr W: do you read your own posts?

I said that you had described the phenomenon as truck headlights. To which you replied (emphasis added):

You really don't see that you did in fact describe the phenomenon as truck headlights? That the two bolded statements are mutually inconsistent?

Sherapy didn't begin or propagate this, you did. She read your post just fine, "to fit her own pattern" of English-language literacy.

 I looked at his again

Your confusion,if genuine, seems to be regarding the two audiences. 

I told my parents it was a trucks headlights 

I never told anyone in any post on UM that it was truck headlights. indeed i explained that it was not, and why i had told my parents a lie

Here on UM,  speaking and posting to other readers, i have NEVER  described or explained the light as truck headlights. Indeed i have been clear from the start , that while i can describe the light in detail i had no idea of its physical source   

Sherapy has been claiming for some years that i posted that the light was caused by truck headlights. I did not   She just grabbed hold of tha t understanding from  my post, because it gave her a credible explanation. 

Again if people read a post carefully, without prejudice and bias, and took in the words as written, they might get a more accurate understanding 

To be pedantic. i never described the light as truck headlights, even to my parents,  I just offered that as the cause of them.  i didn't have to describe the light. The y could see it from inside our house, over 50 feet away,  with the lounge room blind drawn, it was so bright

Edited August 7, 2019 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

The key to life is 85% proficiency in mathematics, and 25% luck.

Are you retired?

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

You see, you have just explained your misunderstanding, in your own words.

I wrote that i had told my parents it was a truck because they had seen a very bright light  (I outlined this when challenged on how i knew the light was not just in my mind)

I also posted that it was NOT a truck and had no apparent source.

YOU then assumed that the light was caused by a truck and i had conflated the rest 

You began posting that i had seen a truck, when I had posted that i had never done so ,and had simply used that to put my parents' minds at ease  

Indeed i told you the bolded bit, but i also explained, in the same post, and many others, that this was an invention to ease my parents' minds 

You just found it easy to believe i had seen a truck headlights and impossible to believe it was a god/angel /alien entity  

Understandable, but NOT what i posted 

You do get that, even if i had just told you that i told my parents it was a truck, without any further explanation why i did so,   this is NOT telling you that I saw a truck headlights. It is an account of how i explained the light to others who saw it 

I went off your posts, I get the that the reason you created the truck was to establish your parents as proof that this whole tale wasn’t in your head.

You also offered your dog as an eye witness, and neighbors who all died, then changed it to your folks, at one retelling your wife was there too. 

Of course, you have arbitrarily conflated this tale.

UM is the place for it too. But why hang out in the Skeptical section? Why not Scoot on over to a section more suited to tall tales. 

Come on you goof ball it is common knowledge you like to spin a yarn.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Sherapy

[Habitat]

24 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Are you retired?

Pretty much.

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Pretty much.

What did you do? If I can ask, if not no worries. 

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

What did you do? If I can ask, if not no worries. 

I was in and around the building industry mostly, later on I became of all things, a professional gambler on racehorses, Still do a little betting, as today, for example. Not winning today, yet.

 

[+Sherapy]

48 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I was in and around the building industry mostly, later on I became of all things, a professional gambler on racehorses, Still do a little betting, as today, for example. Not winning today, yet.

 

Interesting, the professional gambler, that explains the percentage reference.

I don’t gamble, do you do well? 

Which trade were you in specifically? Construction correct? 

My hubby is an Electrician General Foreman (union). 

He has been a part of some amazing gigs. At current he is at American Airlines, they are doing millions of dollars in renovations. 

[Habitat]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

that explains the percentage reference.

That was meant to be a joke !

[+Sherapy]

27 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That was meant to be a joke !

Lol 

Well in your line of work you do need luck, and a good grasp of probability, right. 

Hmmm, the interesting things people say. 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

On 8/7/2019 at 3:36 PM, Sherapy said:

I went off your posts, I get the that the reason you created the truck was to establish your parents as proof that this whole tale wasn’t in your head.

You also offered your dog as an eye witness, and neighbors who all died, then changed it to your folks, at one retelling your wife was there too. 

Of course, you have arbitrarily conflated this tale.

UM is the place for it too. But why hang out in the Skeptical section? Why not Scoot on over to a section more suited to tall tales. 

Come on you goof ball it is common knowledge you like to spin a yarn.

 

 

 

You are confusing a number of events, especially two which occurred 20 years apart

I didn't have a dog in the first event.

in the much later one, our dogs all saw, and were barking at, a large door- shaped portal or doorway in the dark night sky. My wife saw neither event   but has seen her own unusual things in the night sky   Not sure what neighbours you are referring to, or which event .  There was a third event which was seen by my wife, and other people over 20 ks away, but i missed that one  

No, I have related my experiences as best i can. if you don't read them with an open mind, thus confusing events in your mind as it fills in imaginary gaps,  and if you confuse different stories into one,  that is a failing by you not by me .

It is you conflating several separate experiences which i have written about over the years. 

You believe as you must. That doesn't make you right 

Ps i exect skepticism and disbelief 

However that is no excuse for personal  attacks on my intelligence sanity or probity by anyone Those generally  come from people who not only don't believe but also have to construct reasons why i am wrong, such as lying,  hallucinating, or conflating,  because the thought the stories could be true is too scary to contemplate  

Eg You might have won the "Miss California"  award in your youth, and post this on UM.

  I might disbelieve you (even if it was the truth) but i wouldn't need to justify my disbelief  by attacking you in any way, I could just say, "I believe that to be highly unlikely, based on statistical probability, so i disbelieve it  " 

In reality it is more likely i would neither believe, nor disbelieve, such a story. 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

13 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

double post

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Mr Walker

[eight bits]

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Eg You might have won the "Miss California"  award in your youth, and post this on UM.

  I might disbelieve you (even if it was the truth) but i wouldn't need to justify my disbelief  by attacking you in any way, I could just say, "I believe that to be highly unlikely, based on statistical probability, so i disbelieve it  " 

In reality it is more likely i would neither believe, nor disbelieve, such a story. 

This aspect of your posting has come up so many times, that I find it very difficult to believe that the point escapes you. I'd almost suspect that you are pretending to be obtuse.

Were it the case that @Sherapy came forward claiming "I was once Miss California," her fact claim has one thing going for it right out of the gate: she knows the truth of the matter, and I know that she knows it. In most situations, I would take her claim at face value, conclude that the judges had good taste, and that's that.

The difference between that and some of your fact claims, e.g. "I had an interaction with a supernatural being who took the form of a talking pillar of light," is that I have no reason to believe that you could identify a supernatural being if one bit you on the butt. Nothing personal; I don't accept that anybody else could, either.

So far as I can recall, nobody here has ever expressed much difficulty with the idea that you saw a mysterious light, or that you heard a mysterious voice at the same time. Why not? For the same reason Miss California would get at least an initial pass: it is highly credible that you would know whether you saw something bright and heard something that sounded like a voice.

It's your interpretation of the experience that impedes acceptance of the story, further complicated by your resistance to separating the truth of the underlying experience from the speculative nature of your personal interpretation.

You've just done the experiment yourself, so pay attention to the results. You recently posted a picture of yourself here. Everybody simply accepts your claim that that's what you really look like. (Yes, including some mean posters who might on other matters suspect you were lying or hallucinating or <gasp!> mistaken). In contrast, when you were posting pictures of mature men who supposedly looked like you (a handsome distinguished-looking lot), much skepticism was frankly expressed.

As I've said, I find it hard to believe that you cannot see the difference between a straightforward fact claim, well within the plausible knowledge of the claimant ("Here's a picture of me"), and a fact claim larded up with subjectivity and interpretation ("Here's a picture of Richard Gere; that's what I look like, too").

Edited August 16, 2019 by eight bits