Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #26 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: the Yanks now know they're false. Then perhaps they will finally be speaking the same language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #27 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, and then said: Uh... the whole purpose of an Ambassador is to deal with governments in a DIPLOMATIC way. Which he has. Or the Inept Tangerine would have tweeted about it before now. You seem to be missing the part that these are official communications that should never have been made public. Quote He can hold any opinion he cares to hold but when that opinion is insulting to the leader of the country he represents HIS country to, he has overstayed his welcome. It's not an opinion. It's a professional assessment. It's also not insulting unless you have the emotional capacity of a teaspoon. Quote Your PM's choice. Replace him or basically have your business put on a back shelf until you do. He's due to leave shortly anyway. And it's not like we're getting anything positive from the US anyway. Myself, I hope he is allowed to finish his posting. No one should be punished for doing their job. Quote I'd expect your nation to behave similarly in the same circumstances. How little you know of the British then. Maybe it comes from being around a lot longer but we don't generally care what other countries think of us. If an ambassador claimed we were unlikely to become less inept, we'd just put our efforts into proving them wrong. Rather than adolescent twitter tirades. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #28 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) Most likely explanation to me is that Trump has met Darroch and was completely fooled by the usual diplomatic overlay. Darroch is an very capable and experienced diplomat and will have known that just praising Trump will get you whatever access you need. So now Trump feels like an idiot for not understanding what an ambassador does so heads to twitter to vent. And in doing so, proves every word Darroch said. Edited July 9, 2019 by Setton 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 9, 2019 #29 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Setton said: If the US can't get over an ambassador doing his job, that only reflects on you. psshhhh.. They will replace him. You can't have your closest ally unwilling to speak to your ambassador. As has been pointed out already, the person that leaked these diplomatic documents needs to be found and terminated. If your TDS prevents you from doing your job by causing you to take ill advised actions counter to your nations interest then you should be relieved. Possibly punished. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted July 9, 2019 #30 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, and then said: That's the only guarantee they have at this point. With all the chaos and vitriol that has been thrown at this president, his base is still solid and the Dems seem hellbent on nominating a candidate that will guarantee his re-election. The Left has lost touch with reality over Trump and it's going to bite them...again... Which means something else is going on. Just like when the dems insisted that McGovern be nominated in spite of the disgruntlement of the delegates, and the same happened with the republicans when Clinton got elected, and it will continue until we get rid of the democrates and republicans or at least take their illegal power to manipulate the votes. Edited July 9, 2019 by Desertrat56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 9, 2019 #31 Share Posted July 9, 2019 This just proves Chubby knows how to rub the honey pot... ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted July 9, 2019 Author #32 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Why should the Ambassador apologize? He gave his evaluation of a foreign government to his country. That is an ambassador's job, to gauge and evaluate in order for his government to have the data on how to effectively deal with another nation. It’s an embarrassing gaffe, that’s why. No matter how true it might be it still has caused hurt not just to Trump and his family but the U.S. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #33 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, OverSword said: psshhhh.. They will replace him. You can't have your closest ally unwilling to speak to your ambassador. As has been pointed out already, the person that leaked these diplomatic documents needs to be found and terminated. If your TDS prevents you from doing your job by causing you to take ill advised actions counter to your nations interest then you should be relieved. Possibly punished. He has not taken 'ill advised actions counter to your nations interest'. He has done his job. Yes, whoever leaked them should be prosecuted. But Darroch should finish his term. It's not his fault they were leaked or that the US is run by a petty man-child who can't take criticism. A leader deserving of the name would simply have said he didn't care what was in the emails as they should have stayed private. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted July 9, 2019 #34 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 hours ago, RoofGardener said: The Civil Servant or politician that leaked this document(s) needs to be prosecuted. It has caused potentially large amounts of damage. Dark forces already going on in the Boris camp to get rid of those diplomats against Brexit? Instead of calling Trump diplomatically inept and incompetent I`m sure the diplomat could have phrased it along the lines of - we will need to support him because he is polarising. That sounds much better. As it is I think the guy needs to give a public apology and be moved to back office duties. I`m surprised to see May bite back. She could have been more measured in her response and said while we realise the diplomat has caused personal offence to Trump, and while we apologise for it, we do realise that just as Trump is polarising in America he is so too to our diplomatic team.With hindsight we think he was the wrong guy to send and have moved him to another assignment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted July 9, 2019 #35 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, OverSword said: psshhhh.. They will replace him. You can't have your closest ally unwilling to speak to your ambassador. As has been pointed out already, the person that leaked these diplomatic documents needs to be found and terminated. If your TDS prevents you from doing your job by causing you to take ill advised actions counter to your nations interest then you should be relieved. Possibly punished. Its Boris, just as it was him last time lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted July 9, 2019 #36 Share Posted July 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: It’s an embarrassing gaffe, that’s why. No matter how true it might be it still has caused hurt not just to Trump and his family but the U.S. I don't think the opinion of the UK ambassador hurt anyone in the U.S. except Trump and his owners and their minions. And we don't know, maybe that was the owners' whole point, to alienate as many foreign governments as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted July 9, 2019 #37 Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Setton said: He has not taken 'ill advised actions counter to your nations interest'. He has done his job. Yes, whoever leaked them should be prosecuted. But Darroch should finish his term. It's not his fault they were leaked or that the US is run by a petty man-child who can't take criticism. A leader deserving of the name would simply have said he didn't care what was in the emails as they should have stayed private. That is the biggest problem, the U.S. is not Run by the president any more than the UK is run by the prime minister. They are representatives and have limited power. Our country (the U.S.) is run by the reprobates in our congress and senate that are owned by the corporations and special intersts (BIG MONEY). Anything you see Trump do or say is a distraction, purposeful distraction. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardrive Posted July 9, 2019 #38 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The former ambassador to the EU Kim? Enough said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 9, 2019 #39 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The Ambassador didn't do anything that hasn't been done by all of his predecessors, and by the USA equivelants in the Court of St. James. Whoever leaked this needs to be CRUCIFIED. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 9, 2019 #40 Share Posted July 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, Setton said: He has not taken 'ill advised actions counter to your nations interest'. He has done his job. The leaker, Setton, took ill advised actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 9, 2019 #41 Share Posted July 9, 2019 6 hours ago, and then said: Uh... the whole purpose of an Ambassador is to deal with governments in a DIPLOMATIC way. He can hold any opinion he cares to hold but when that opinion is insulting to the leader of the country he represents HIS country to, he has overstayed his welcome. Your PM's choice. Replace him or basically have your business put on a back shelf until you do. I'd expect your nation to behave similarly in the same circumstances. Yep, his usefulness is at an end as ambassador to the US from the UK. Maybe it is time for another post. Darroch never did publicly insult President Trump or the US.. He had obviously been dealing with the administration in a DIPLOMATIC way, he had been invited to dinner at the White House, and previously to other state functions. No doubt he was grinning, complimentary and polite as a diplomat should be. Most governments in the world, both friend and foe alike are asking their representatives, who get a chance to see the administration up close and personal what it is really like. They can't count on public news reporting. US diplomats do the same, it is part of intelligence gathering. Observation does not require access to top secret documents or spying. I think we had our own experience with that when a US diplomat's comments about the Mexican administration were leaked. Perhaps we could have moved on from the leak, the ambassador could have been replaced and the episode forgotten. Now of course the world might have one more confirmation that the administration appears insecure and inept and will not change its approach to international diplomacy. Pretty much what Darroch said. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #42 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, OverSword said: The leaker, Setton, took ill advised actions. Obviously. Depending what their goal was, of course. Edited July 9, 2019 by Setton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post +Hammerclaw Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post #43 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) Much ado about nothing. Diplomats are plentiful and easily replaced, should the need arise. Private communiques are exactly that--private. It's regrettable the publication of his caused an unintended fau paux. It is amusing that a President with the diplomatic tact of a wild boar, who says any negative thing he wants about any world leader, gets so butt hurt over what's whispered about him in private. Edited July 9, 2019 by Hammerclaw 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 9, 2019 #44 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RoofGardener said: The Ambassador didn't do anything that hasn't been done by all of his predecessors, and by the USA equivelants in the Court of St. James. Whoever leaked this needs to be CRUCIFIED. He's a fine Ambassador and a credit to his country. I hope he weathers the storm and stays on. Edited July 9, 2019 by Hammerclaw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted July 9, 2019 #45 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Captain Risky said: It’s an embarrassing gaffe, that’s why. No matter how true it might be it still has caused hurt not just to Trump and his family but the U.S. Yes, but... The Ambassador ISN'T the one who leaked the story. Why should he apologize for fulfilling his duty to his nation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 9, 2019 #46 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, RabidMongoose said: Instead of calling Trump diplomatically inept and incompetent I`m sure the diplomat could have phrased it along the lines of - we will need to support him because he is polarising. That sounds much better. He could have. Or he could give his honest assessment, as he is paid to. It doesn't need to sound good. It needs to be accurate and clear. The whole point is that only those who need to see this should ever have seen it. It would cripple our diplomats and much of the FCOs work if ambassadors had to make sure no one could take offence at their assessment. Quote As it is I think the guy needs to give a public apology and be moved to back office duties. For what? Doing his job? God forbid you employ anyone. Quote I`m surprised to see May bite back. Probably because she knows a lot more about the role of diplomats than you do. Besides, I thought we were meant to be independent? Why should we pander to a man-child who can't take criticism? Quote She could have been more measured in her response and said while we realise the diplomat has caused personal offence to Trump, and while we apologise for it, we do realise that just as Trump is polarising in America he is so too to our diplomatic team. She could have. She could even have responded in coherent English as an alternative. Or she could support her ambassador who has done nothing to warrant an apology. Quote With hindsight we think he was the wrong guy to send and have moved him to another assignment. We didn't though. We sent a very capable diplomat, who, given that this is the first negative thing Trump has had to say, is a master of diplomacy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted July 9, 2019 #47 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Setton said: He could have. Or he could give his honest assessment, as he is paid to. It doesn't need to sound good. It needs to be accurate and clear. The whole point is that only those who need to see this should ever have seen it. It would cripple our diplomats and much of the FCOs work if ambassadors had to make sure no one could take offence at their assessment. For what? Doing his job? God forbid you employ anyone. Probably because she knows a lot more about the role of diplomats than you do. Besides, I thought we were meant to be independent? Why should we pander to a man-child who can't take criticism? She could have. She could even have responded in coherent English as an alternative. Or she could support her ambassador who has done nothing to warrant an apology. We didn't though. We sent a very capable diplomat, who, given that this is the first negative thing Trump has had to say, is a master of diplomacy. Please, like you trust anybody you work with in politics. The moment it serves someone else`s purpose, or you become a threat, or you fall out of favour, then you are going to get thrown under a bus. As a diplomat your job is to play the political game all day everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 9, 2019 #48 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Even diplomats speak the truth, behind closed doors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 9, 2019 #49 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Captain Risky said: It’s an embarrassing gaffe, that’s why. No matter how true it might be it still has caused hurt not just to Trump and his family but the U.S. It was not a gaffe or a mistake. It was a private communication that got leaked. Imagine it as a reply to the British Foreign Office asking a few questions: "The press is going crazy over the election of Donald Trump. He has had a few stumbles with Flynn and Manafort and Sessions, will he find his way and put together a stable administration?" "Can we count on him in a pinch, will he do what he says and stay the course or leave us hanging in the lurch if we agree to follow his lead?" "What about this Russia thing the Democrats are on about, any basis to it or can you tell yet?" "Wll he keep the US commitments to the Paris Aacord and the JCPOA? "Will he support us in a unified approach to China Trade violations or try to go it alone." "Will he back us in Brexit?" "We need to know quickly so that we can begin to formulate our responses?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 9, 2019 #50 Share Posted July 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: Please, like you trust anybody you work with in politics. The moment it serves someone else`s purpose, or you become a threat, or you fall out of favour, then you are going to get thrown under a bus. As a diplomat your job is to play the political game all day everyday. Methinks you watch too much Game of Thrones m'lord. Diplomats can be patriotic and trustworthy and loyal to their job and government. Just like soldiers, they are eyes and ears in the field and have a duty to report back, not white wash and lie. Or of course, we could go with your corrupt theory and assume that President Trump just did not pay Darroch enough money to turn in a glowing report. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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