RoofGardener Posted July 10, 2019 #101 Share Posted July 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Golden Duck said: This is basically Britain's Cablegate. Hmm.. interesting point. WAS it a British leak ? The NSA must surely routinely intercept messages from the UK embassy in Washington. Is it possible that this leak actually came from within the USA security establishments ? If so, what would their motive be ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 10, 2019 #102 Share Posted July 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: An American Ambassador to Iran. This public servant sends a report to his superiors stating that Iran is the "PERFECT" place for an American industry to move into, because the Iranians are "really nice people, and the government welcomes diversity and views that run counter to the nations religious outlook" Would that "really nice endorsement" truly serve the needs of the American government and citizens? it might forestall military conflict with iran. In that case, it would without doubt be of great benefit to the world. In fact, it'd be the best thing that could happen. I mean goodness, can we think of any hardline Islamic theocracies that the U.S. can't do enough to cooperate with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 10, 2019 #103 Share Posted July 10, 2019 15 hours ago, Captain Risky said: It’s an embarrassing gaffe, that’s why. No matter how true it might be it still has caused hurt not just to Trump and his family but the U.S. holy ****, considering that the next Prime Minister has called Russia's leader the New Hitler, America's leader (and his supporters) really need to stop being so easily hurt. But Britannia doesn't need or want remotely polite relations with Russia, you'll say? Whereas it desperately needs the Global Megapower to be its only friend in the world having alienated everywhere in Europe through the Tories' Colonel Blimp-esque blustering? Yes, you may well be right. Well, that's a bed that the Tories have made for themselves isn't it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 10, 2019 #104 Share Posted July 10, 2019 14 hours ago, OverSword said: The leaker, Setton, took ill advised actions. Setton was the leaker?! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 10, 2019 #105 Share Posted July 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Setton said: She could have. She could even have responded in coherent English as an alternative. No one's going to consider it worthwhile reprogramming the speech synthesis module at this late stage. I mean, it's only a few weeks before she goes for recycling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 10, 2019 #106 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Hmm.. interesting point. WAS it a British leak ? The NSA must surely routinely intercept messages from the UK embassy in Washington. Is it possible that this leak actually came from within the USA security establishments ? If so, what would their motive be ? Well one does seem to be predictable with these reactions. He's quick with the sheep and goats. My first guess would be there's some identity politics going on on; but, can't see an obvious benefit. Eg, as Venezuela rolled on it seemed to set up the next election campaign; ie, Maduro=Socialism=Democrats=Bad. Firage is weighing in. What can he gain, or is he stirring? It could be just mischief like Wikileaks. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48901624 But you can't help but wonder about the Wag The Dog scenario suggested by @Desertrat56 Edited July 10, 2019 by Golden Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 10, 2019 #107 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Quote Sir Kim Darroch resigns as UK ambassador to US https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48937120 Disgraceful that he should feel the need to but I guess someone has to be the adult not in the room. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted July 10, 2019 #108 Share Posted July 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Tatetopa said: Sheesh, he gave his best opinion Best or biased? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #109 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, skliss said: Best or biased? WHY? Why on earth is every evaluation of Trump that is even mildly critical always chalked up to "bias"? And what do you mean by bias? What bias does this career UK diplomat have that would benefit from him giving a negative evaluation of the administration? Finally tell me do you think those receiving the cables in the UK were shocked by the info therein? Honestly? Of course not, the dude drips insecurity in everything he does, his Twitter feed is public so his temper tantrums are there for all to see and the chaotic way he "runs" his administration has been a point of pride for Trumpians so its not like the cable was groundbreaking information that the diplomat just invented. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted July 10, 2019 #110 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: WHY? Why on earth is every evaluation of Trump that is even mildly critical always chalked up to "bias"? And what do you mean by bias? What bias does this career UK diplomat have that would benefit from him giving a negative evaluation of the administration? Finally tell me do you think those receiving the cables in the UK were shocked by the info therein? Honestly? Of course not, the dude drips insecurity in everything he does, his Twitter feed is public so his temper tantrums are there for all to see and the chaotic way he "runs" his administration has been a point of pride for Trumpians so its not like the cable was groundbreaking information that the diplomat just invented. Wouldnt it be funny to find out that Trump leaked it so he could throw a public tantrum and attract yet more media attention? Edited July 10, 2019 by RabidMongoose 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #111 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, RabidMongoose said: Wouldnt it be funny to find out that Trump linked it so he could throw a public tantrum and attract yet more media attention? That actually makes sense in a twisted way. Trump's most successful ploy is the victim card and his supporters lap it up so it would be political genius to create as many scenarios as possible where people are "mean to trump". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 10, 2019 #112 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I suggest a visit to the twitter museum ... Quote ~ 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 10, 2019 #113 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said: Wouldnt it be funny to find out that Trump leaked it so he could throw a public tantrum and attract yet more media attention? Except Trump wouldn't have access to it. And if he did, we'd have seen the twitter tantrum in 2017. Edited July 10, 2019 by Setton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #114 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Setton said: Except Trump wouldn't have access to it. And if he did, we'd have seen the twitter tantrum in 2017. Shouldnt and wouldnt are two wholly separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted July 10, 2019 #115 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: WHY? Why on earth is every evaluation of Trump that is even mildly critical always chalked up to "bias"? And what do you mean by bias? What bias does this career UK diplomat have that would benefit from him giving a negative evaluation of the administration? Finally tell me do you think those receiving the cables in the UK were shocked by the info therein? Honestly? Of course not, the dude drips insecurity in everything he does, his Twitter feed is public so his temper tantrums are there for all to see and the chaotic way he "runs" his administration has been a point of pride for Trumpians so its not like the cable was groundbreaking information that the diplomat just invented. And this rant shows how much a bias can cloud rational thought processes. Your opinion is one thing, what's needed in the job of an ambassador is a person who can put their own feelings aside an give an objective summation. In fact it's essential to his government's ability to assess their own choices for any given situation. So I asked the extremely relevant question....do we know if this guy is giving his "best" assessment or is he a "biased" individual who sees everything thru a certain lens? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #116 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, skliss said: And this rant shows how much a bias can cloud rational thought processes. Your opinion is one thing, what's needed in the job of an ambassador is a person who can put their own feelings aside an give an objective summation. In fact it's essential to his government's ability to assess their own choices for any given situation. So I asked the extremely relevant question....do we know if this guy is giving his "best" assessment or is he a "biased" individual who sees everything thru a certain lens? If he had said glowing things about Trump you would not be asking the same question let alone championing it as relevant. The fact that everything he said matches the public record (whether you choose to believe reality or not) really pushes this need to discredit him by questioning bias into the creepy cult zone. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted July 10, 2019 #117 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: If he had said glowing things about Trump you would not be asking the same question let alone championing it as relevant. The fact that everything he said matches the public record (whether you choose to believe reality or not) really pushes this need to discredit him by questioning bias into the creepy cult zone. Um, dont attempt to think for me...thanks in advance... If he said glowing things I would have thought him disingenuous only because again that seems more personnal than objective. I think it ironic that you would use the word "reality". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #118 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, skliss said: Um, dont attempt to think for me...thanks in advance... If he said glowing things I would have thought him disingenuous only because again that seems more personnal than objective. I think it ironic that you would use the word "reality". Yes I do apologize your history of questioning positive things about Trump clearly speaks for itself 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 10, 2019 #119 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 hours ago, RoofGardener said: Hmm.. interesting point. WAS it a British leak ? The NSA must surely routinely intercept messages from the UK embassy in Washington. Is it possible that this leak actually came from within the USA security establishments ? If so, what would their motive be ? Very good point RoofGardner. Without even criticizing any US policies or making any official statement at all, but by assessing President Trump, the British and American relationship has been strained. Who would benefit muchly from friction between a struggling Britain and the USA, and who knows the quickest way to do that? Not to rely on the standard bogeyman too heavily, but does Putin come to mind? Was he not publicly insulted by the British? Would this not be a delicious revenge? And for one who might also have a sense of ego and arrogance, would it not be satisfying to be the man behind the curtain twisting the dials and pulling the levers that unleash the very predictable fire, smoke, and wrath of the Great and Powerful OZ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 10, 2019 #120 Share Posted July 10, 2019 5 hours ago, skliss said: Best or biased? Well Skliss, with my basic faith in humanity and my recognition of a sense of duty, I will say best. When governments are dealing with the future of their people and their place in the world, biased information does them no good. They need accuracy. I believe president Trump has done more for conservative causes than any president in decades. But that does not mean he is free of weaknesses. Among his many good qualities every person has flaws and weaknesses. President Trump has a huge ego, a narcissism, and a short attention span with limited interest in details. It can be seen that he will react to personal affronts and pull the United States along behind him. It is what he does. It is predictable. Our allies the British may never intend to take advantage of his insecurity or ineptness, but they need to know about it and be ready in case somebody else does take advantage of it, as might have very well been done in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted July 10, 2019 #121 Share Posted July 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Well Skliss, with my basic faith in humanity and my recognition of a sense of duty, I will say best. When governments are dealing with the future of their people and their place in the world, biased information does them no good. They need accuracy. I believe president Trump has done more for conservative causes than any president in decades. But that does not mean he is free of weaknesses. Among his many good qualities every person has flaws and weaknesses. President Trump has a huge ego, a narcissism, and a short attention span with limited interest in details. It can be seen that he will react to personal affronts and pull the United States along behind him. It is what he does. It is predictable. Our allies the British may never intend to take advantage of his insecurity or ineptness, but they need to know about it and be ready in case somebody else does take advantage of it, as might have very well been done in this case. I never thought I would miss young Bush, but I do right now. I would rather see a picture of him holding hands with an arab sheik than hear or read about one more tweet from Trump. (emotional outburst done) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 10, 2019 #122 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Tatetopa said: Very good point RoofGardner. Without even criticizing any US policies or making any official statement at all, but by assessing President Trump, the British and American relationship has been strained. Who would benefit muchly from friction between a struggling Britain and the USA, and who knows the quickest way to do that? Not to rely on the standard bogeyman too heavily, but does Putin come to mind? Was he not publicly insulted by the British? Would this not be a delicious revenge? And for one who might also have a sense of ego and arrogance, would it not be satisfying to be the man behind the curtain twisting the dials and pulling the levers that unleash the very predictable fire, smoke, and wrath of the Great and Powerful OZ? So basically you think it was the Russians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 10, 2019 #123 Share Posted July 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: So basically you think it was the Russians I was thinking anti brexiters might have reason to make the UK look at who they are hitching their wagon to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 10, 2019 #124 Share Posted July 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: I was thinking anti brexiters might have reason to make the UK look at who they are hitching their wagon to. I don't know. Desperately trying to sabotage alliances that have taken decades to build up and leaving Britain isolated on the international stage sounds more like the pro-brexit crowd to me... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 10, 2019 #125 Share Posted July 10, 2019 13 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: sorry, I'm getting confused by the jargon. What's an NN? Check with Merc14 or our old friend the Ninja Turtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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