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Still Waters

UK inmates could get own cell keys as reward

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Still Waters

Prisoners could be handed the keys to their cells to incentivise good behaviour, as well as a series of other benefits, under government plans that call on governors to put more emphasis on rewards and less on punishments.

Ministers want to give prison chiefs the power to begin allowing inmates who follow the rules more time out of their cells, the freedom to cook their own meals and more time to spend in the gym, as well as the freedom to choose when to shower and more time to meet visitors.

Some prisoners could also be allowed to lock their cell doors when they wanted, though this could always be overridden by prison staff and the keys could not be used to open locked doors, the Ministry of Justice said.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/12/prisoners-may-get-perks-for-good-behaviour-in-rewards-based-reforms

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Piney

That's just the opposite of Southwoods in New Jersey. As different private companies took over it to run it ( 2 when I was in). We kept losing more freedoms. The more freedoms we lost the more violent incidents increased. We didn't have cell keys it was automated. But the guard in the tower could activate or deactivate it. If the tower guard had a grudge with the inmate he would lock the cell and make him wait outside of it. 

They also increased the "run downs" with the SOG (SWAT) teams. That increased tempers even more. 

@Farmer77  was a career CO. He probably has more knowledge on a inmate's psychology. 

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's just the opposite of Southwoods in New Jersey. As different private companies took over it to run it ( 2 when I was in). We kept losing more freedoms. The more freedoms we lost the more violent incidents increased. We didn't have cell keys it was automated. But the guard in the tower could activate or deactivate it. If the tower guard had a grudge with the inmate he would lock the cell and make him wait outside of it. 

Thats how we ran it too. We also told the inmates  that the officer operating the door could turn off the security cameras as well, more than once just touching the mic and pretending to broadcast a request to kill the cameras made an inmate reconsider his attitude :lol:.

I only did a year or so as a CO but IMO smart CO's have trustees basically running the block anyways so I think the idea of letting those kinds of folks have extra freedoms makes perfect sense. Build trust, build responsibility and build self respect while setting an example for the new guys.

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Piney
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats how we ran it too. We also told the inmates  that the officer operating the door could turn off the security cameras as well, more than once just touching the mic and pretending to broadcast a request to kill the cameras made an inmate reconsider his attitude :lol:.

 

During my 2nd year in after I was elected Tier Rep I had a whole group of Freshies looking in my cell door window. So I go outside and they asked me "Where's my cat?" :lol:

I was like "What???" :blink:

A  pothead Muslim brother pranking told them you get a cat for good behavior and you can see my cat and get the request forms from me.  :lol:

There were 2 blind spots in the rec yard corners right under the cameras. It's where we had our "fight club activities".  I think those blind spots were a "on purpose". 

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ExpandMyMind

It's about whether you're seeking rehabilitation for inmates or simply for their sentences to be purely punitive. If you want to reduce the rates of recidivism, then you should be looking to the former.

I have no problem with radical steps towards rehabilitation. If it reduces prison violence and recidivism rates then it can only be a good thing for society. You only have to look at Scandinavian countries to see how well these sort of programs can work. 

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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stevewinn

rehabilitation rates are so poor can it even be classed as a working system? Its time to turn prisons into hell holes. so no fecker, including the devil himself would want to go back. lets give it a try.

Edited by stevewinn
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ExpandMyMind
18 hours ago, stevewinn said:

rehabilitation rates are so poor can it even be classed as a working system? Its time to turn prisons into hell holes. so no fecker, including the devil himself would want to go back. lets give it a try.

This totally works. I hear Chinese, Russian, Colombia, Vietnamese and Mexican prisons are practically empty.

And back in Medieval times, when prisons were at their worst and most were punished with execution, there wasn't a crime committed for hundreds of years.

 

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stevewinn
15 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

This totally works. I hear Chinese, Russian, Colombia, Vietnamese and Mexican prisons are practically empty.

And back in Medieval times, when prisons were at their worst and most were punished with execution, there wasn't a crime committed for hundreds of years.

 

how many re-offend in those countries?

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ExpandMyMind
1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

how many re-offend in those countries?

Well, it's a bit difficult to tell with China since they harvest the organs of their prisoners, and many of the rest don't report the numbers and often imprison people for very lengthy sentences compared to the rest of the world. But it's interesting to note that Norway has the lowest re-offending rates amongst all countries and Ireland is currently witnessing the benefits of rehabilitation, with their recidivism rates dropping after adopting new policies.

If you'd rather punish behaviour than correct it, then you're thinking extremely short-term. I'd rather prisoners came out as functioning and contributing members of society, rather than coming out more hardened or spending decades inside, at the expense of the taxpayer, for crimes excluding murder and rape. 

 

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stevewinn
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well, it's a bit difficult to tell with China since they harvest the organs of their prisoners, and many of the rest don't report the numbers and often imprison people for very lengthy sentences compared to the rest of the world. But it's interesting to note that Norway has the lowest re-offending rates amongst all countries and Ireland is currently witnessing the benefits of rehabilitation, with their recidivism rates dropping after adopting new policies.

If you'd rather punish behaviour than correct it, then you're thinking extremely short-term. I'd rather prisoners came out as functioning and contributing members of society, rather than coming out more hardened or spending decades inside, at the expense of the taxpayer, for crimes excluding murder and rape. 

 

How many chances do you give someone?

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RabidMongoose
On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 12:19 PM, Still Waters said:

Prisoners could be handed the keys to their cells to incentivise good behaviour, as well as a series of other benefits, under government plans that call on governors to put more emphasis on rewards and less on punishments.

Ministers want to give prison chiefs the power to begin allowing inmates who follow the rules more time out of their cells, the freedom to cook their own meals and more time to spend in the gym, as well as the freedom to choose when to shower and more time to meet visitors.

Some prisoners could also be allowed to lock their cell doors when they wanted, though this could always be overridden by prison staff and the keys could not be used to open locked doors, the Ministry of Justice said.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/12/prisoners-may-get-perks-for-good-behaviour-in-rewards-based-reforms

Lets shut 75% of prisons, keep the remainder for minor short-term sentences, and deport all the rest of a penal colony. We have plenty of small unpopulated islands around the world to do it. If they dont want to abide by the rules of a civilization society lets dump them outside of civilization and let them get on with it.

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ExpandMyMind
7 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

How many chances do you give someone?

What do you mean?

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ExpandMyMind
5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Lets shut 75% of prisons, keep the remainder for minor short-term sentences, and deport all the rest of a penal colony. We have plenty of small unpopulated islands around the world to do it. If they dont want to abide by the rules of a civilization society lets dump them outside of civilization and let them get on with it.

And in 200 years they'll probably have a better economy than us.

For the record, I don't agree with this plan.

 

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RabidMongoose
Just now, ExpandMyMind said:

And in 200 years they'll probably have a better economy than us.

For the record, I don't agree with this plan.

I honestly dont think most criminal offenders can form and exist in a society which functions properly.

We could open up that island to a new type of tourism, a new type of hunting holiday, do you get what I mean? 

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ExpandMyMind
2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I honestly dont think most criminal offenders can form and exist in a society which functions properly.

Australia and many of the early American colonies are proof that you're correct :lol:

3 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

We could open up that island to a new type of tourism, a new type of hunting holiday, do you get what I mean? 

Scary that people think like this.

Your whole opinion here seems to be formed by the various dystopian fiction you have consumed.

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RabidMongoose
2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Australia and many of the early American colonies are proof that you're correct :lol:

Scary that people think like this.

Your whole opinion here seems to be formed by the various dystopian fiction you have consumed.

Australia wasn't dumping people outside of civilization, it was taking criminals to setup new civilization in managed colonies.

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ExpandMyMind
6 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Australia wasn't dumping people outside of civilization, it was taking criminals to setup new civilization in managed colonies.

Yes. What you suggest is just leaving our problem citizens, the most dangerous of our society, abandoned on an island where they'll be free to escape and commit crimes all over the world. You're basically suggesting dumping our problem on other countries.

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RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Yes. What you suggest is just leaving our problem citizens, the most dangerous of our society, abandoned on an island where they'll be free to escape and commit crimes all over the world. You're basically suggesting dumping our problem on other countries.

I never suggested dumping our problem onto other countries.

Oh wait, its ExpandMyMind, I know what your reputation is like lmao.

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ExpandMyMind
14 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I never suggested dumping our problem onto other countries.

Oh wait, its ExpandMyMind, I know what your reputation is like lmao.

But that's exactly what would happen. You think they would just stay on these islands, when they could go elsewhere?

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RabidMongoose
2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

But that's exactly what would happen. You think they would just stay on these islands, when they could go elsewhere?

Unless they can row 1000 miles and slip past a couple of gunboats I cannot imagine there being much risk.

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ExpandMyMind
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

Unless they can row 1000 miles and slip past a couple of gunboats I cannot imagine there being much risk.

If you're going to spend the money for gunboats to guard them then you'd be as well just having them in prison.

And many would definitely row 1000 miles. how do you think the Vikings travelled the seas?

It's a ridiculous idea, but I'm not going to argue against it any further. If you think that's the answer to problems then you're welcome to that opinion.

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RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If you're going to spend the money for gunboats to guard them then you'd be as well just having them in prison.

And many would definitely row 1000 miles. how do you think the Vikings travelled the seas?

It's a ridiculous idea, but I'm not going to argue against it any further. If you think that's the answer to problems then you're welcome to that opinion.

Yes your responses are ridiculous and now you are on ignore.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 13/07/2019 at 11:07 PM, stevewinn said:

rehabilitation rates are so poor can it even be classed as a working system? Its time to turn prisons into hell holes. so no fecker, including the devil himself would want to go back. lets give it a try.

Britain tried that, they called it “New South Wales” and it worked SO WELL that they needed to establish Brisbane, Redcliffe and Norfolk Island as prisons within prison in order to maintain order. 

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Captain Risky

All crime is not the same, so it’s only logical that it’s treated differently. Rehabilitation Vs. punishment isn’t the choice. Giving the keys to an inmate that hasn’t committed a serious offence or hasn’t got anti-social history is fine but giving the keys to a Mr Big of the underworld isn’t exactly acting as a deterrent for future crime, no matter how meaningful the gesture maybe. 

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Aaron2016

Over the years I've heard that UK prisons are so accommodating that the inmates get three healthy meals each day, access to TV, radio, a library, newspapers, gym, sports, education, healthcare, video games, board games, paid work, other various indoor and outdoor activities, lifelong friendships, and of course no women to nag at them.  Sounds like the ideal place to live.  What's the catch?

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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