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DirtyDocMartens

My first New Earther!

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Jodie.Lynne

Yes, and I was gobsmacked! At first, I thought they were just pulling my leg, but then realized that they were dead serious.

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Habitat

Main thing, you got a strong sense of superiority out of this conversation. But, such people really don't represent proof that religious beliefs are void. That would be extrapolating beyond the data, which a good science person would never, ever do.

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sci-nerd

Lack of curiosity and faith in authority makes a strong beliver.

It's a matter of personality, really. Either you are satisfied and calmed by dogmas, or you question them.

You can take the horse to the river, but you can't force it to drink.

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Tatetopa

Yes, I worked with a guy like that.  He was a very religious Southern Baptist.  He thought there were tame dinosaurs in the garden of Eden that turned mean when people were outcast, then God destroyed them in the flood.   That was his explanation.  Cave men, ie Neanderthals were descendants of Esau.    He did spend some time trying to integrate it into the larger picture.  Except for evolution, he didn't go there.  He was quite a nice guy though and very smart on a day to day basis.  He thought I was a nice guy too and regretted that I was definitely going to Hell if I didn't get saved.  I was an occasional Presbyterian at the time, but that was not saved enough.

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Wes83

Why attempt to change their beliefs? I find it many beliefs amusing, constantly entertained-though I hold very few beliefs myself...

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DirtyDocMartens
3 hours ago, Wes83 said:

Why attempt to change their beliefs? I find it many beliefs amusing, constantly entertained-though I hold very few beliefs myself...

Are you asking me that question? I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, I'm just amazed and confounded by her ability to rationalize around factual information. And she's a friend of mine, by the way, I didn't criticize her views, we just had a friendly discussion about it then went on to a different subject. I'm bringing it up here because I don't want to hurt her feelings by harping on it, I'm just looking for insight into that worldview.

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DirtyDocMartens
3 hours ago, Habitat said:

Main thing, you got a strong sense of superiority out of this conversation. But, such people really don't represent proof that religious beliefs are void. That would be extrapolating beyond the data, which a good science person would never, ever do.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be implying I'm anti-religion or something, which isn't true- its not the religious aspect, but rather the ability to disregard what i would call physical, mathematical,  or repeateble phenomena. By the way, if someone tells me a stick is exactly 38 cm long, I can extrapolate beyond the given data to figure out how many inches long it is. So, yeah.

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Not A Rockstar

Doc, some of these people are home schooled so may not have the education you would consider basic. Certainly if they get taught science it is slanted a great deal into "what the profane unbelievers say" vs "our truth". My Paternal grand parents were of this worldview and it was simply not even questionable, To the day they died they were locked into what the Church taught, and that was not even one of these non mainstream cults, it was mainstream. Still is. IDK if the entire church holds to this but, they did. I clearly remember being told how the world was destroyed and remade with the Garden and Man was created then and Eve later and the fossils were just the remains of the things that died before then. I believed it until I got to school and away from them. Why would I doubt it, with no education until then about science at all? I was a child.

Some never do escape though or hear different and maybe they do not question, as it is seen as a test of their salvation and loyalty to God, I guess, to not doubt the literal letter of the Bible, as taught by their pastor. 

In the big scheme of things, this brand of idea is not much more than 10% of Christians out there I ESTIMATE, though can vary a LOT by area of the country. I am sure it is higher around me within some of these Pentecostal and Evangelical little churches dotting the countryside, and probably a lot less in major cities. I do not talk with many of those and they avoid me, pretty much. Many of them dress very obviously, each little church has its own Boss, sort of and some seem very cultish and do not associate with non-members much at all. They avoid tattooed heathens like me. The Baptists are friendlier. I talk with a few of them but on the whole that mindset is ancient history for me and I cannot go back or miss it. 

It really is set in solid steel for most of them. 

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Golden Duck
3 hours ago, DirtyDocMartens said:

... I'm just amazed and confounded by her ability to rationalize around factual information. ...

The age of the earth has no bearing on her ability to pay bills or health.

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Rlyeh

Thought you were going to say flat earther.

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Essan

Ask her what happened to the therapsids :D 

I have never met a young earther, and hope I never do!   A flat earther is fair more rational!

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Golden Duck
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Lack of curiosity and faith in authority makes a strong beliver.

It's a matter of personality, really. Either you are satisfied and calmed by dogmas, or you question them.

You can take the horse to the river, but you can't force it to drink.

What you say may be true.

For a great many people facts are trivia; and, most people lose such contests at the local pub.

There's nothing anti-social in failing to win a free dinner. Marginalising people on what they think... that's a different matter. 

Edited by Golden Duck
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Piney
9 minutes ago, Essan said:

Ask her what happened to the therapsids :D 

I have never met a young earther, and hope I never do!   A flat earther is fair more rational!

I met a engineering PHD that was one. I avoided conversation with him. :lol:

Then several Nation of Islam members in prison were Young Earth Creationists. 

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Wes83
6 hours ago, DirtyDocMartens said:

Are you asking me that question? I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, I'm just amazed and confounded by her ability to rationalize around factual information. And she's a friend of mine, by the way, I didn't criticize her views, we just had a friendly discussion about it then went on to a different subject. I'm bringing it up here because I don't want to hurt her feelings by harping on it, I'm just looking for insight into that worldview.

No, many of the responders seemed to be saying maybe she will see things differently, I felt they were implying that she needed to see things differently. I think your attitude towards the situation parallels mine to a degree. 

I ain’t trying to change anyone but I enjoy hearing other perspectives, no matter how far off center. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Wes83 said:

I ain’t trying to change anyone but I enjoy hearing other perspectives, no matter how far off center. 

That's my theory as long as they don't bring harm. My only pet peeve is doomsday prophets. It harms children. 

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Habitat
6 hours ago, DirtyDocMartens said:

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be implying I'm anti-religion or something, which isn't true- its not the religious aspect, but rather the ability to disregard what i would call physical, mathematical,  or repeateble phenomena. By the way, if someone tells me a stick is exactly 38 cm long, I can extrapolate beyond the given data to figure out how many inches long it is. So, yeah.

There was an air of ridicule. We know some people absorb like parrots, whatever "authority" figures tell them, and it extends well beyond religion.

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Wes83
10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes, I worked with a guy like that.  He was a very religious Southern Baptist.  He thought there were tame dinosaurs in the garden of Eden that turned mean when people were outcast, then God destroyed them in the flood.   That was his explanation.  Cave men, ie Neanderthals were descendants of Esau.    He did spend some time trying to integrate it into the larger picture.  Except for evolution, he didn't go there.  He was quite a nice guy though and very smart on a day to day basis.  He thought I was a nice guy too and regretted that I was definitely going to Hell if I didn't get saved.  I was an occasional Presbyterian at the time, but that was not saved enough.

So... in my younger years I was an evangelist preacher. I was indoctrinated young and at the age of 15 I couldn’t help but share the good news.

After years of evolving my own personal beliefs and breaking away from any kind of organized religion I was invited to a dinner with my mother’s cult lea- I mean pastor.

He had no idea I once preached the gospel and I could tell this was a guise to bring me into the fold. I played along until we got to salvation and I quoted him “so you’re telling me, there’s a god who wants to send me to a hell of fire and brimstone for eternal torment, a lesser god trying to convince me to go to this hell, and I will indeed go there unless I repent for wickedness I may have committed? How do you know you have the right book?” He was completely lost for words.

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, Wes83 said:

I felt they were implying that she needed to see things differently.

I've given up on trying educate people. When I hear people who sincerely believe in fallacies, I just listen, nod my head and move on.

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Wes83
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I've given up on trying educate people. When I hear people who sincerely believe in fallacies, I just listen, nod my head and move on.

I find myself wondering what kind of delusions I hold onto that I’m completely unaware of at the moment sometimes while listening to others share their own.

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DirtyDocMartens
16 hours ago, Habitat said:

There was an air of ridicule. We know some people absorb like parrots, whatever "authority" figures tell them, and it extends well beyond religion.

That's not really me, except when it comes to physics. I gave up math after calculus, and the things physicists come up with are way beyond my ability to figure out on my own. At that point I rely on peer review and reputable periodicals and authors to help make sense of it all. Steven Hawking may have been making all that stuff up he talked about, but I hope not.

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, DirtyDocMartens said:

Steven Hawking may have been making all that stuff up

I'm sure he was guilty of a bit of extrapolation beyond the data, in his popular writings. 

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psyche101
On 7/14/2019 at 10:27 AM, Wes83 said:

Why attempt to change their beliefs? I find it many beliefs amusing, constantly entertained-though I hold very few beliefs myself...

Beliefs undermine science, beliefs taught to young people (like YEC garbology) I feel is a form.of child abuse. Moderate believers lend credibility to, and inspire more radical beliefs. Religions cause divides in humanity and hold back progress. Religion is an enemy of reason and mostly helps complacency rather than anything else. 

Beliefs should stand to scrutiny like any other aspect of life. 

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Desertrat56
On 7/13/2019 at 5:32 PM, DirtyDocMartens said:

I was talking to our receptionist today and found out she believes the Earth is 6000 years old. I've heard about these people, but this was my first discussion about it with an actual believer. I was stupified. I asked her what she thought of Neanderthals, but I don't she really knew what those are (or were). And apparently dinosaurs were on the ark, but not the big ones- she was a little vague on what happened to them. Astounding,  absolutely astounding.  I feel like I've just seen Bigfoot or some other extremely unlikely speciman. I have a degree in biology/ecology from a fairly prestigious university and I guess I've gotten used to being surrounded by people guided by reason rather than faith. Has anyone else had a similar experience?  And what was your reaction? 

I have met people like that, they are usually home schooled because of religious reasons.

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