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Kenemet

The Sajama Lines

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Manwon Lender
6 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

The Nazca Geogyphs, as it turns out, are not quite unique in South America.  Neighboring Bolivia also has a set of lines called the Sajama lines that are just... straight lines that run for many miles near the volcano, Sajama.  There are thousands of them (the total length of all the lines is estimated to be 10,000 miles) and there is no local indigenous information that tells who or why they were made.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sajama-lines

There's very little interest in researching them (perhaps if they'd drawn a butterfly this would have changed).   Atlas Obscura's article disappoints, but Amusing Planet's article adds a tiny bit more about them: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/09/the-mysterious-sajama-lines-of-bolivia.html

The University of Pennsylvania apparently mapped them into GIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajama_Lines

They appear to roads, it amazing how many of them are there.

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Ironside

I wonder if they used string-lines to get them that straight/parallel. I mean i've seen houses built with less consistency. cool article :)

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Manwon Lender
7 minutes ago, Ironside said:

I wonder if they used string-lines to get them that straight/parallel. I mean i've seen houses built with less consistency. cool article :)

That is pretty amazing, but over and over again in the ancient world it is obvious that some kind of knowledge math or measurement was used. Let me say this in my opinion it certainly wasn't Aliens, just the good old ingenuity of man.

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Hanslune
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

The Nazca Geogyphs, as it turns out, are not quite unique in South America.  Neighboring Bolivia also has a set of lines called the Sajama lines that are just... straight lines that run for many miles near the volcano, Sajama.  There are thousands of them (the total length of all the lines is estimated to be 10,000 miles) and there is no local indigenous information that tells who or why they were made.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sajama-lines

There's very little interest in researching them (perhaps if they'd drawn a butterfly this would have changed).   Atlas Obscura's article disappoints, but Amusing Planet's article adds a tiny bit more about them: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/09/the-mysterious-sajama-lines-of-bolivia.html

The University of Pennsylvania apparently mapped them into GIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajama_Lines

Kool glad to know eccentric behaviour is a standard through out humankind

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Kenemet

I haven't looked for other large geoglyph groups like this one.  It would be interesting to see if there are more and to find out where they're located.

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Kenemet

And now that I look at it, the research pages on it are dead and taken over by people who sell supplements.  I suppose it's not unexpected, but it is disappointing.

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Windowpane
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

And now that I look at it, the research pages on it are dead  ...

I found a little information here, and more here.

Does anyone know if these lines have any connection with sacbeob?

Edited by Windowpane
clarification
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Kenemet
7 hours ago, Windowpane said:

I found a little information here, and more here.

Does anyone know if these lines have any connection with sacbeob?

That's awfully interesting stuff, but I'll bet that the answer is "no."  Sacbeob are Maya, not Inca.

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Susanc241
12 hours ago, Ironside said:

I wonder if they used string-lines to get them that straight/parallel. I mean i've seen houses built with less consistency. cool article :)

Three poles, as per the way the Romans ensured their roads were straight, would have done the job.

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Windowpane
3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

That's awfully interesting stuff, but I'll bet that the answer is "no."  Sacbeob are Maya, not Inca.

Yes, I realise that ...  Besides the fact that the Maya had no known connection with the Inca, they were between 2,000-3,000 miles away from each other as the crow flies.  

Still, these straight-road/line phenomena are notable for being located in Central and South America ...

Is this perhaps just coincidence?  

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Swede
1 hour ago, Windowpane said:

Yes, I realise that ...  Besides the fact that the Maya had no known connection with the Inca, they were between 2,000-3,000 miles away from each other as the crow flies.  

Still, these straight-road/line phenomena are notable for being located in Central and South America ...

Is this perhaps just coincidence?  

You may also wish to further study the below. Have conducted research in this area and walked road portions.

https://www.nps.gov/chcu/learn/historyculture/chacoan-roads.htm

The following provides some citations:

https://www.thoughtco.com/chaco-road-system-southwestern-america-170328

.

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Peter Cox
On 7/14/2019 at 5:19 AM, Kenemet said:

The Nazca Geogyphs, as it turns out, are not quite unique in South America.  Neighboring Bolivia also has a set of lines called the Sajama lines that are just... straight lines that run for many miles near the volcano, Sajama.  There are thousands of them (the total length of all the lines is estimated to be 10,000 miles) and there is no local indigenous information that tells who or why they were made.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sajama-lines

There's very little interest in researching them (perhaps if they'd drawn a butterfly this would have changed).   Atlas Obscura's article disappoints, but Amusing Planet's article adds a tiny bit more about them: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/09/the-mysterious-sajama-lines-of-bolivia.html

The University of Pennsylvania apparently mapped them into GIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajama_Lines

There are also the "Adams calendar" in South Africa with thousands of connecting lines, kraals and so on, that no one looks at cause some crack heads believe its where the aliens came to earth to create humans. Real scholars have steered away from investigating and have written it off as cattle kraals from the Bantu migration. However I think it needs some more research. Very cool stuff still out there.

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Windowpane
36 minutes ago, Peter Cox said:

There are also the "Adams calendar" in South Africa with thousands of connecting lines, kraals and so on, that no one looks at cause some crack heads believe its where the aliens came to earth to create humans. Real scholars have steered away from investigating and have written it off as cattle kraals from the Bantu migration. However I think it needs some more research. Very cool stuff still out there.

Wiki on Blaauboschkraal stone ruins.

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Peter Cox
21 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

Thank you, I have done loads of research on this (I live in SA) and have visited the sites in question. I am by no means saying it was what some believe (aliens, 250 000 years old etc). The only thing i would like to see is some real research go into the sites in question. The sheer size and amount of "ruins" warrants it. If its simple Kraals then so be it, but I would like to see the research that show that, and to-date I cant find it. 

However if I have to pick between Kraals and the other whack job theories it would be kraals every day of the week. 

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Windowpane
21 hours ago, Susanc241 said:

Three poles, as per the way the Romans ensured their roads were straight, would have done the job.

 More on Roman survey techniques here (25-6).

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Windowpane
18 hours ago, Swede said:

You may also wish to further study the below. Have conducted research in this area and walked road portions.

https://www.nps.gov/chcu/learn/historyculture/chacoan-roads.htm

The following provides some citations:

https://www.thoughtco.com/chaco-road-system-southwestern-america-170328

 

There were climate and farming problems at Chaco Canyon itself.  One conclusion is that: 

Quote

Chaco Canyon residents either imported most of their food from surrounding regions 60 to 100 miles away, or the dwellings in the canyon were never permanently occupied, instead serving as temporary shelters for people making regular pilgrimages.

So you might think that the Chaco Road System had something to do with this ...  except that some of the CRS roads don't appear to lead anywhere.  But (as explained in your linked articles) it's possible that many of the roads had a ritual function.

 

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Swede
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Windowpane said:

There were climate and farming problems at Chaco Canyon itself.  One conclusion is that: 

So you might think that the Chaco Road System had something to do with this ...  except that some of the CRS roads don't appear to lead anywhere.  But (as explained in your linked articles) it's possible that many of the roads had a ritual function.

 

Yes, caught the Benson review earlier today. Have not yet read the paper.

The debate over the site function of Chaco actually dates back quite some number of years, with the habitation vs ceremonial functions receiving varying amounts of attention and proportionality. One of the aspects to be considered (and that has been studied) is the admitted fragile marginality of the water resources. Some studies suggest that even a one to two inch variance in annual rainfall could be the tipping point between crop success and failure. Which brings us to a fine-grained study of the paleoclimate. The purpose of my studies in the area was related to the temporally comparative collapse of the Ancestral Puebloan and Mississippian cultures and the possible relationship of these events to the climatic changes leading to the Little Ice Age.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede
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Kenemet

Ceremonial function is an interesting suggestion.  The process of "walking a labyrinth" (https://www.peacelabyrinth.org/how-to-walk-the-labyrinth) might be related to it, but I don't see any evidence of this type of activity in the area.  It's my impression that there's not a lot of detritus in the area, which is why it's so difficult to interpret.

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Coil
Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2019 at 6:19 AM, Kenemet said:

The Nazca Geogyphs, as it turns out, are not quite unique in South America.  Neighboring Bolivia also has a set of lines called the Sajama lines that are just... straight lines that run for many miles near the volcano, Sajama.  There are thousands of them (the total length of all the lines is estimated to be 10,000 miles) and there is no local indigenous information that tells who or why they were made.

 

And these lines-roads in the right picture lead to volcanoes?

 

sajama-lines-92?imgmax=1600

 

 

Edited by Coil

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Kenemet
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Coil said:

 

And these lines-roads in the right picture lead to volcanoes?

 

sajama-lines-92?imgmax=1600

 

 

I don't know.  I just encountered the topic a few days ago myself.  A topo map and a geology map would tell us, though.  It appears that some groups of them do lead away (or lead toward) from an outcrop or pit or something...

I think I would want a data analysis program to determine about the cluster of lines (and maybe find out which were the older sets.)

Edited by Kenemet
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Piney
8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Ceremonial function is an interesting suggestion.  The process of "walking a labyrinth" (https://www.peacelabyrinth.org/how-to-walk-the-labyrinth) might be related to it, but I don't see any evidence of this type of activity in the area.  It's my impression that there's not a lot of detritus in the area, which is why it's so difficult to interpret.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/labyrinth-chartres-cathedral

Chartres has a "Pilgrims' Labyrinth". 

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Coil
2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I don't know.  I just encountered the topic a few days ago myself.  A topo map and a geology map would tell us, though.  It appears that some groups of them do lead away (or lead toward) from an outcrop or pit or something...

I think I would want a data analysis program to determine about the cluster of lines (and maybe find out which were the older sets.)


If these are cooled volcanoes, then it is clear that these are roads leading to volcanoes.
I adhere to the version that it is one and the same destructive work of ancient civilizations as it was in America in the canyon national parks. And volcanoes are not volcanoes but waste material, slag that turned into rock but which is heated and ejected from the inside to form a volcano. So externally it is a volcano that once worked and there are a lot of them. Therefore, numerous roads are transport branches:

f42ca2a87bfba0c8e2448c2becca801a.jpg

 

Pay attention to how part of America was destroyed and turned into a desert:

america-desert.png

 

 

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Coil
Has someone removed the last photo? It is not reflected so I put a new one.
.
Spoiler

d35074f46f191ffbf51090d86b7822a5-full.pn

 

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Windowpane
4 hours ago, Piney said:

More discussion here (pp 152-3).

Nigel Pennick (Mazes and Labyrinths, 1990: 120) states that the pathway formerly bore verses from Psalm 51, vv. 18-19 (Jerusalem's walls).  Pennick argues that this represents: "another instance of the Roman 'walls of the city' motif ... "

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